Anders Breivik pleads not guilty. Really?
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Original post by AkaJetson
Nope
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2011/6/20/pat-condell-claims-all-rapists-in-oslo-are-muslim-immigrants.html
The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.
The claim that "all rapists in Oslo are immigrants" is based exclusively on the figures for "assault rape", i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, "8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance". Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that "Muslim immigrants" are responsible for all rapes in the city.
The police report also points out that "it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape" and that "the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions". It concludes: "Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous."
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/2011/6/20/pat-condell-claims-all-rapists-in-oslo-are-muslim-immigrants.html
The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.
The claim that "all rapists in Oslo are immigrants" is based exclusively on the figures for "assault rape", i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, "8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance". Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that "Muslim immigrants" are responsible for all rapes in the city.
The police report also points out that "it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape" and that "the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions". It concludes: "Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous."
All of the violent rapists in Oslo are immigrants. Why then do you think they do not also commit the 'other' type of rapes?.........Whatever that means.
Immigrants commit roughly 50% of all Oslo rapes.
The vast majority of the victims are white.
You should be campaigning against this hatred and racist violence, not trying to ignore it.
Funny how so called 'anti racists' always turn into blatant racists when the victims are white.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by dgeorge
Just because someone doesn't hold the same level of empathy/understanding is in no way, shape or form a reason to inflict on others such suffering
No, but if he doesn't have empathy then he doesn't really understand the implications of his actions, even if he thinks he does. Don't misunderstand, I'm not defending him. I'm just assuming that whether or not he understands what he has done probably has some impact on whether or not he's clinically sane. And if he's not he'll end up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life, which I'd guess is a bit more restrained than prison, though I've been to neither so I can't be sure.
Original post by natchina
Think about it. All rapes in Oslo are committed by non western immigrants. All the victims are white.
Roughly 50% of rapes in Norway are committed by non western males.
Think about it. Think about how outrageous this is. Think about why white people, and famales in particular, would be annoyed by this?
No one is blaming ALL Muslims.
Think about it.
Roughly 50% of rapes in Norway are committed by non western males.
Think about it. Think about how outrageous this is. Think about why white people, and famales in particular, would be annoyed by this?
No one is blaming ALL Muslims.
Think about it.
Even if say, this is the case, what on earth has this got to do with Anders Brevik? A white Norwegian man, that has killed many innocent people?
And with your attitude anyway, I won't be surprised that when you meet a non western male, you are likely to be prejudice towards them anyway.
You sound like a BNP supporter, this is the type of **** they would bring up - "40% of rape is committed by immigrants" etc etc to justify their point of views.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by natchina
All of the violent rapists in Oslo are immigrants. Why then do you think they do not also commit the 'other' type of rapes?.........Whatever that means.
Immigrants commit roughly 50% of all Oslo rapes.
The vast majority of the victims are white.
You should be campaigning against this hatred and racist violence, not trying to ignore it.
Funny how so called 'anti racists' always turn into blatant racists when the victims are white.
Immigrants commit roughly 50% of all Oslo rapes.
The vast majority of the victims are white.
You should be campaigning against this hatred and racist violence, not trying to ignore it.
Funny how so called 'anti racists' always turn into blatant racists when the victims are white.
Did I hit a nerve?
Original post by Jørgen
No, but if he doesn't have empathy then he doesn't really understand the implications of his actions, even if he thinks he does. Don't misunderstand, I'm not defending him. I'm just assuming that whether or not he understands what he has done probably has some impact on whether or not he's clinically sane. And if he's not he'll end up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life, which I'd guess is a bit more restrained than prison, though I've been to neither so I can't be sure.
I disagree. He does fully understand the implications of his actions. Even if HE does not care, this does not mean he doesn't understand how much OTHER people care.
E.g. I see a pet as a pet - e.g. I had a dog, but I wouldn't hug it, kiss it, or let it into the house (Just not really the culture I grew up in)
However, there are people who consider their pets as literally one of their family members (heard one woman referring to her "son" once, and I was confused as I thought she didn't have any children, only to find out she was referring to her dog!).
While I can't necessarily empathise with them, I certainly understand that if their pet was taken away from them, that they would be distraught. I don't share their views/feelings on pets, but I would consider myself as liable if I did something out of the way to that pet as someone who did care.
I think he fully understands what he has done. And don't worry, I understand that you're simply making an argument and not defending him
Original post by fat_hobbit
Even if say, this is the case, what on earth has this got to do with Anders Brevik? A white Norwegian man, that has killed many innocent people?
And with your attitude anyway, I won't be surprised that when you meet a non western male, you are likely to be prejudice towards them anyway.
You sound like a BNP supporter, this is the type of **** they would bring up - "40% of rape is committed by immigrants" etc etc to justify their point of views.
And with your attitude anyway, I won't be surprised that when you meet a non western male, you are likely to be prejudice towards them anyway.
You sound like a BNP supporter, this is the type of **** they would bring up - "40% of rape is committed by immigrants" etc etc to justify their point of views.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Breivik. This is just one of the TSR trolls who look for any opportunity to push their anti-immigration/anti-coloured biases. When you point out the flaws in their argument, their main excuse is simply to complain about all of the racism against whites, as if that in some way excuses horrible crimes like these. I've pointed to the poster several times that we're not discussing immigration, and that we should get back on topic, but it seems that this is the only thing that the poster can possibly talk about is their biased and racist views
Original post by dgeorge
I disagree. He does fully understand the implications of his actions. Even if HE does not care, this does not mean he doesn't understand how much OTHER people care.
E.g. I see a pet as a pet - e.g. I had a dog, but I wouldn't hug it, kiss it, or let it into the house (Just not really the culture I grew up in)
However, there are people who consider their pets as literally one of their family members (heard one woman referring to her "son" once, and I was confused as I thought she didn't have any children, only to find out she was referring to her dog!).
While I can't necessarily empathise with them, I certainly understand that if their pet was taken away from them, that they would be distraught. I don't share their views/feelings on pets, but I would consider myself as liable if I did something out of the way to that pet as someone who did care.
I think he fully understands what he has done. And don't worry, I understand that you're simply making an argument and not defending him
E.g. I see a pet as a pet - e.g. I had a dog, but I wouldn't hug it, kiss it, or let it into the house (Just not really the culture I grew up in)
However, there are people who consider their pets as literally one of their family members (heard one woman referring to her "son" once, and I was confused as I thought she didn't have any children, only to find out she was referring to her dog!).
While I can't necessarily empathise with them, I certainly understand that if their pet was taken away from them, that they would be distraught. I don't share their views/feelings on pets, but I would consider myself as liable if I did something out of the way to that pet as someone who did care.
I think he fully understands what he has done. And don't worry, I understand that you're simply making an argument and not defending him
In my view he does not care, he understands that other people do, but I strongly doubt he understands how and how much they care.
I was of the impression that empathy to at least a certain extent included sharing a victim's feelings. He seems to understand that other people find his actions horrendous, but it doesn't seem to affect him in any way, which is why I think he lacks empathy. So I can agree that he understands what he has done, but not "fully". Perhaps we just disagree, which I'm also fine with.
Unrelated: He has mentioned he wouldn't respect getting a 21 year prison sentence as he sees it as pathetic. He says he wants to get a death penalty or be released. I find it excellent that his plan of dying for his cause failed, and that he will have to annoy himself with the thought that he didn't become a martyr for all time to come... sitting in prison or a mental hospital!
Original post by Hobo389
Well you could... dispose... 
It is a little more than an eye for an eye.
It is a little more than an eye for an eye.
He wants to become a martyr. Execution would be more beneficial to him than costly.
There's a documentary on BBC iPlayer on Anders Breivik... I'm just about to watch it, don't know if it's any good, however.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
Original post by mevidek
There's a documentary on BBC iPlayer on Anders Breivik... I'm just about to watch it, don't know if it's any good, however.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
you should it's a pretty powerful documentary gives you the facts of what happened, what his life was like and perhaps why his life turned out the way it is.
It also will give you an intense hatred of this man
Original post by Shabalala
you should it's a pretty powerful documentary gives you the facts of what happened, what his life was like and perhaps why his life turned out the way it is.
It also will give you an intense hatred of this man
It also will give you an intense hatred of this man
I think that the facts about his habits while living at his mum's house is quite evident that he is not of sound mind and judgement.
But yes, I do despise this sick, sick man.
Original post by mevidek
He wants to become a martyr. Execution would be more beneficial to him than costly.
Dispose sort of insinuates that you do it on the down low :L
Original post by Hobo389
Dispose sort of insinuates that you do it on the down low :L
It would still come out as he had a couple of nutter allies on the internet who would want to know what happened to him.
Original post by mevidek
There's a documentary on BBC iPlayer on Anders Breivik... I'm just about to watch it, don't know if it's any good, however.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
Not the best documentary. I think they managed to convey how incredibly scary it was on the island, and how the police were incompetent and unprepared. But the scale of his atrocities was not communicated that well.
And what's with inserting 'tips for terrorists' from his manifesto? That's just distasteful.
P.S. I'm in no way having a go at you mevidek, just the documentary
(edited 12 years ago)
I'm surprised there isn't an official Breivik trial thread. Or is this it?
Personally, I don't think Breivik is 'insane' per se, though it takes a particularly cold, calculated personality to commit such a monstrous act. Breivik joins the long list of people and political organizations in history who believe or have believed that it is morally justifiable to kill people because of their and your political beliefs.
Personally, I don't think Breivik is 'insane' per se, though it takes a particularly cold, calculated personality to commit such a monstrous act. Breivik joins the long list of people and political organizations in history who believe or have believed that it is morally justifiable to kill people because of their and your political beliefs.
Original post by mevidek
There's a documentary on BBC iPlayer on Anders Breivik... I'm just about to watch it, don't know if it's any good, however.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gkplz/hd/This_World_Norways_Massacre/
The part at the end with Mehtab Asfar (Islamic Council of Norway) bugged me. He says 'I think we should emphasize the ideology he is talking about, how deep it is in our society. He is sitting behind bars, but his ideology is out there, because when we live in a multicultural society... it is a very dangerous ideology'.
In other words, people whose ideology involves opposition to multiculturalism are a 'danger' to society (which self-evidently ought to be 'multicultural') and by implication ought to be rooted out.
I agree with the other guy at the end, Breivik's stance on multiculturalism and immigration is, by and large, correct. His actions, however, were obviously not. But what I would take out of this whole episode is not that Breivik is some lone crazy; instead, he represents the darker side what is a pressing, intractable problem involving Muslims, immigration and the entire fate of Western Europe. And this problem has already shown that there will be violence on both sides.
But, people will inevitably draw the wrong conclusions from this event and just harp on about how we need to be more tolerant, have more immigration and more Islam. This is basically the note the documentary ended on.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by mevidek
He wants to become a martyr. Execution would be more beneficial to him than costly.
Well that's just it. He knows that what he's done is a henious crime and doesn't want too face up to the punishment of a lifetime in prison to reflect on his crimes (I know they say 21 years but it can be extended if they feel he's a danger to the public, which he is so I doubt he will ever walk free again).
The man is a coward hence he is asking fo acquittal/death because that way he doesn't have to face up to the punishment of his crimes. Death is always the salvation of a coward and that's exactly what he is.
Anyways I predict and it wouldn't surprise me if he commited suicide in jail regrdless of hoever much suicide watch he is put on. He is a coward and if there is a hell I sure hope he'll end up there.
Original post by rural_boy
Any evidence of this 'demographic fact' then?
Is the girl in your sig called Rhiannon?
Original post by Toaster Leavings
Is the girl in your sig called Rhiannon?
Nope, I have no idea who Rhiannon is haha..
It's Melanie Laurent, she's a french actress.
Just wondering, why did you think her name was Rhiannon?
Original post by Gridiron-Gangster
Well that's just it. He knows that what he's done is a henious crime and doesn't want too face up to the punishment of a lifetime in prison to reflect on his crimes (I know they say 21 years but it can be extended if they feel he's a danger to the public, which he is so I doubt he will ever walk free again).
The man is a coward hence he is asking fo acquittal/death because that way he doesn't have to face up to the punishment of his crimes. Death is always the salvation of a coward and that's exactly what he is.
Anyways I predict and it wouldn't surprise me if he commited suicide in jail regrdless of hoever much suicide watch he is put on. He is a coward and if there is a hell I sure hope he'll end up there.
The man is a coward hence he is asking fo acquittal/death because that way he doesn't have to face up to the punishment of his crimes. Death is always the salvation of a coward and that's exactly what he is.
Anyways I predict and it wouldn't surprise me if he commited suicide in jail regrdless of hoever much suicide watch he is put on. He is a coward and if there is a hell I sure hope he'll end up there.
I doubt he'd commit suicide; he's an arrogant criminal who believes that he's starting a "revolution".
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