[pbsjohnz]

The european countries

[Spaz Man]

The outcome of British colonialism in the Middle East certainly was terrible.

As Robert Fisk once said: "After the allied victory of 1918, at the end of my father's war, the victors divided up the lands of their former enemies. In the space of just seventeen months, they created the borders of Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia and most of the Middle East. And I have spent my entire career - in Belfast and Sarajevo, in Beirut and Baghdad - watching the people within those borders burn."

[InOregon]

(Original post by cid)
Japan


did a very good job of closing its doors and pretending the rest of the world didn't exist ...


then some foreign devils forced their door open and they got all pissed and decided to try and conquer half of Asia ...

or something like that

True that Japan was never colonized but the rest is either completely or partially false. Japan never completely shut itself off from the rest of the world. Through the port city of Nagasaki, the Japanese conducted trade with the Dutch and Dejima in Nagasaki became the center for European science and art in Japan. Also the the Satusma Domain in southern Japan had the Ryukyu kingdom as a vassal and through the Ryukyus, the Satsuma were conducting trade with China and Korea.

As for being forced to open trade. Yes, the Japanese lost face and were furious but...why Japan attacked it's neighbors. Japan learned that to be a "modern" nation in the 19th century was to become a colonial power. You either conquered or be conqured.

[taeyang]

mongolia

[cid]

(Original post by InOregon)
True that Japan was never colonized but the rest is either completely or partially false. Japan never completely shut itself off from the rest of the world. Through the port city of Nagasaki, the Japanese conducted trade with the Dutch and Dejima in Nagasaki became the center for European science and art in Japan. Also the the Satusma Domain in southern Japan had the Ryukyu kingdom as a vassal and through the Ryukyus, the Satsuma were conducting trade with China and Korea.

As for being forced to open trade. Yes, the Japanese lost face and were furious but...why Japan attacked it's neighbors. Japan learned that to be a "modern" nation in the 19th century was to become a colonial power. You either conquered or be conqured.

Well that's a given but trading with other countries is completely different to being open to them, apart from the few ports that where allowed to trade with the west the rest of the country was off limits, there was no mixing of culture no outside influence, so really to the vast majority of the country the rest of the world didn't exist.

[namithailoveyou]

A few, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, China, etc.

[InOregon]

(Original post by cid)
Well that's a given but trading with other countries is completely different to being open to them, apart from the few ports that where allowed to trade with the west the rest of the country was off limits, there was no mixing of culture no outside influence, so really to the vast majority of the country the rest of the world didn't exist.

As mentioned earlier Chinese and the Dutch traded at Dejima, Nagasaki and trade with Ryukyu was conducted through the Satsuma. Then there was the trade with the Ainu in Ezo(Hokkaido) which was not considered part of Japan back then and the trade with Korea was conducted through Tsujima. Trade was restricted with whom Japanese can trade with but not how much. Trade actually prospered at this time and there are some discussion of using the term kaikin(maritime prohibitions) and not sakoku, which means total seclusion. During this period there was no decrease in the volume of trade, just the number of countries traded with. The Satusuma kept sure the Ryukyu's were seen as exotic when they traveled through Edo. By showing that the Ryukyu as foreign, the Satsuma showed that they had a kingdom as a vassal, thus showing off how powerful they were. The peasants in the countryside may have not been affected much by this but neither were the serfs in Russia or other peasantry in many other countries who were not "secluded."

During this so called closed door period, the Dutch introduced coffee, chocolate, badminton, billiards, piano and beer to Japan. A lot these things were not available to the peasant farmers but became very common to merchants in some cities. Several famous European scholars visited Japan outside of Dejima during this period including the palace of the Shogun in Edo.

[InOregon]

Also the Dutch didn't just trade in Nagasaki, they had a factory there.

[Xyrish]

(Original post by InOregon)
The Russians tore huge chunks out of China, some became part of Russia and some of it became Mongolia.

Those "huge chunks" were in Russian sphere of influence no doubt but was never formally incorporated into the Russian empire.

Mongolia broke away after the 1921 revolution with Russian help.

[InOregon]

(Original post by Xyrish)
Those "huge chunks" were in Russian sphere of influence no doubt but was never formally incorporated into the Russian empire.

Mongolia broke away after the 1921 revolution with Russian help.

The Russians did annex outer Manchuria which now includes the present Russian cities of Vladivostok and Khabarovsk. It's a large area bigger than most European countries that extended from NE border of Korea to the region across the straits from Northern Sakhalin Island.

Here is the map of the region.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Manchuria.png

[Swanbow]

(Original post by Perseveranze)

What a great film 9th Company was!