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cardiologist ???

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    (Original post by xXxnoora95xXx)
    It's not that I don't care about patients i really do it is that I wanted to graduate having a career that at least pays my bills and taxes :rolleyes:
    That didn't really come across originally to be honest. It's understandable to worry about that everyone does, but there's a reason Dara O'Briain refers to his surgeon wife as 'the pension'. Doctors get paid well, have excellent job security and the pension's amazing.

    With the scientific skill set medical candidates have you can (not necessarily will) make more money by gunning for Oxbridge for a science and going into the City. Doctors pay will always have to strike a balance between being lower than private sector (mainly finance) rivals, due to the much greater intangible rewards of medicine (saving lives, helping people etc.), whilst staying high enough so people don't get lured by the thought of the financial rewards on offer to people with their abilities in hedge funds, investment banks, private equity etc.

    And if you think the NHS' 70-100k is still too low for you to not go chasing 7 figure bonuses fair enough, it is a lot more money, but there are still plenty queuing up to take your place so there doesn't seem to be any need to raise the salaries of doctors beyond inflation.

    I'm sure if the government announced that as part of the cuts a consultant's salary was going down to 25k a year you would see a lot of people leave medicine, because the money is a factor, but that's not going to happen for political reasons. So, it remains the case doctors are the second best paid profession in the UK ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011...d-jobs-uk-2011 ) and take home average salaries more than double the national average of £31,323 for those in full time employment and comfortably in the top 5% ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8151355.stm ).

    Good luck with whatever you do.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Being rich is what is important to you, lets be honest.

    Absolutely. After five years of medical school and likely a decade as a 'doctor in training' serving out bonded slavery to the NHS in terms of rotating a new hospital every year, reapplying for the next stage of training every 2-3 years (possibly in a different part of the country), being forced to pay for through the nose for examinations and courses that are mandatory to progress, paying for my own license to practise etc etc etc, I expect to be very well remunerated.
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Absolutely. After five years of medical school and likely a decade as a 'doctor in training' serving out bonded slavery to the NHS in terms of rotating a new hospital every year, reapplying for the next stage of training every 2-3 years (possibly in a different part of the country), being forced to pay for through the nose for examinations and courses that are mandatory to progress, paying for my own license to practise etc etc etc, I expect to be very well remunerated.
    Of course. Just making sure we're under no illusions here
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    (Original post by xXxnoora95xXx)
    hehe yea srry about that
    oh okay the pay is really low though :confused::confused::confused:
    If you want to earn lots and lots of money, then Medicine is not the career for you.
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    (Original post by Supermassive_muse_fan)
    If you want to earn lots and lots of money, then Medicine is not the career for you.
    Very true. Better look at business or engineering or even politics. Much better in terms of return on investment.

    After spending 15 years training, it's not an issue that doctors expect to be paid well. We put quite a bit of our own money and time into the training so it certainly makes sense to pay us well, however as super said, money shouldn't be the primary goal and if it is, medicine is the wrong career.
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    My eyes... :eek:
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Absolutely. After five years of medical school and likely a decade as a 'doctor in training' serving out bonded slavery to the NHS in terms of rotating a new hospital every year, reapplying for the next stage of training every 2-3 years (possibly in a different part of the country), being forced to pay for through the nose for examinations and courses that are mandatory to progress, paying for my own license to practise etc etc etc, I expect to be very well remunerated.
    You missed the MDU fees so the risk of getting sued for everything you're worth by some ambulance chaser (probably fiddling their costs) on 6 times the salary you get for saving lives, is at least taken care of...
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    Absolutely. After five years of medical school and likely a decade as a 'doctor in training' serving out bonded slavery to the NHS in terms of rotating a new hospital every year, reapplying for the next stage of training every 2-3 years (possibly in a different part of the country), being forced to pay for through the nose for examinations and courses that are mandatory to progress, paying for my own license to practise etc etc etc, I expect to be very well remunerated.
    You sound a bit frusterated with your decision on studying medicine. Are you just trying to get across that you have to sacrifice a lot as a doctor, or are you genuinely regretting going into medicine?
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    (Original post by Giggy88)
    You sound a bit frusterated with your decision on studying medicine. Are you just trying to get across that you have to sacrifice a lot as a doctor, or are you genuinely regretting going into medicine?
    I know this wasn't directed at me but I'm another medic in my last year of med school. I wouldn't call it frustration, I'd call it realism. The following "hurdles" (if you want to call them that) in terms of finance for prospective/current doctors are as follows:

    1) Medical school. You'll be there for an absolute minimum of 4 years, most commonly between 5-7. Given that the average degree takes 3 years, there's already the problem of higher tuition fees. Then of course you've got to have many books (I'd argue more so than most other subjects given the width of knowledge required), equipment (another £50 for a stethoscope and other random things) and living expenses for being a long-term student.

    2) Admin fees. Even before you qualify, you've got to pay medicolegal fees, register with the General Medical Council, and pay fees for post-graduate exams (ranging between £300-£800+ per exam!).

    3) Transport fees. Unlike in most careers, in which you relocate to a particular job as your base and work there, medicine can involve you changing your base hospital as often as 6 months (or 4 months in extreme cases). In some parts of the country, this can take you up to 200 miles away from your previous place of employment (e.g. in the North West you could be relocated from Manchester to Barrow-in-Furness at short notice) and thus travel can become extortionate! (Or, of course, you relocate, thus accruing fees for accommodation)

    There are many others too...however don't get me wrong, medicine is a relatively lucrative career. As people have said though, don't go into it for the money. Yes you'll earn a decent salary, but until you're a consultant you'll have very little time to actually enjoy it. And depending on what you specialise in, even some consultants are too busy to enjoy a rich lifestyle!

    (On that note, might I recommend dermatology for the OP? No on-calls, private work a-plenty... :rolleyes:)
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    (Original post by graemematt)
    I know this wasn't directed at me but I'm another medic in my last year of med school. I wouldn't call it frustration, I'd call it realism. The following "hurdles" (if you want to call them that) in terms of finance for prospective/current doctors are as follows:

    1) Medical school. You'll be there for an absolute minimum of 4 years, most commonly between 5-7. Given that the average degree takes 3 years, there's already the problem of higher tuition fees. Then of course you've got to have many books (I'd argue more so than most other subjects given the width of knowledge required), equipment (another £50 for a stethoscope and other random things) and living expenses for being a long-term student.

    2) Admin fees. Even before you qualify, you've got to pay medicolegal fees, register with the General Medical Council, and pay fees for post-graduate exams (ranging between £300-£800+ per exam!).

    3) Transport fees. Unlike in most careers, in which you relocate to a particular job as your base and work there, medicine can involve you changing your base hospital as often as 6 months (or 4 months in extreme cases). In some parts of the country, this can take you up to 200 miles away from your previous place of employment (e.g. in the North West you could be relocated from Manchester to Barrow-in-Furness at short notice) and thus travel can become extortionate! (Or, of course, you relocate, thus accruing fees for accommodation)

    There are many others too...however don't get me wrong, medicine is a relatively lucrative career. As people have said though, don't go into it for the money. Yes you'll earn a decent salary, but until you're a consultant you'll have very little time to actually enjoy it. And depending on what you specialise in, even some consultants are too busy to enjoy a rich lifestyle!

    (On that note, might I recommend dermatology for the OP? No on-calls, private work a-plenty... :rolleyes:)
    I know this isn't directed at me either but wholly agree with everything else you've said, not to mention the mental and physical stress (have been on too many pro-plus + red bull diets before exams ).

    But once you become a doctor - more than worth all the stress (well I hope so!) I know that even though at times its been absolute hell, there is nothing else I'd rather be doing.

    (Also psych is a good option for the OP too - they have about 3 patients a day and early retirement too!)
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    (Original post by .eXe)
    Very true. Better look at business or engineering or even politics. Much better in terms of return on investment.

    After spending 15 years training, it's not an issue that doctors expect to be paid well. We put quite a bit of our own money and time into the training so it certainly makes sense to pay us well, however as super said, money shouldn't be the primary goal and if it is, medicine is the wrong career.

    Or plumbing. Seriously, I'm sure they make >£60 per visit.
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    (Original post by Giggy88)
    You sound a bit frusterated with your decision on studying medicine. Are you just trying to get across that you have to sacrifice a lot as a doctor, or are you genuinely regretting going into medicine?
    I wouldn't say I was frustrated with medicine, in fact I enjoy medicine a great deal. What I don't enjoy is the way doctors are treated in this country (stuff like losing free house staff accommodation that was equal to a 30% pay cut: unions strike here over 0.5%) , the work atmosphere, the training system, the lack of respect etc etc.
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I wouldn't say I was frustrated with medicine, in fact I enjoy medicine a great deal. What I don't enjoy is the way doctors are treated in this country (stuff like losing free house staff accommodation that was equal to a 30% pay cut: unions strike here over 0.5%) , the work atmosphere, the training system, the lack of respect etc etc.
    can you expand just a bit about the training system? Does the system prepare you well for the real world or is the experience not good enough? Also by training system did you mean foundation years or beyond that?
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    (Original post by digitalis)
    I wouldn't say I was frustrated with medicine, in fact I enjoy medicine a great deal. What I don't enjoy is the way doctors are treated in this country (stuff like losing free house staff accommodation that was equal to a 30% pay cut: unions strike here over 0.5%) , the work atmosphere, the training system, the lack of respect etc etc.
    Wholly agre with all of this. Next it is going to be banding for the foundation years, pensions for the profession as a whole, not to mention the fact that the patient-doctor relationship\partnership has now morphed into prescriptive doctoring by the patient. I feel completely disempowered by the working conditions that we are put through these days. And presumably it will only get worse with the new Health Bill.
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    well since the new uni fees in england, i feel doctors should get paid quite a lot more as they're all going to have big debts at the end of uni.
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    (Original post by xXxnoora95xXx)
    It's not that I don't care about patients i really do it is that I wanted to graduate having a career that at least pays my bills and taxes :rolleyes:
    Sorry, do you understand how taxes work?


    And on the actual conversation - its a classic debate people have about whether or not the money matters. Of course it matters, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise. Yes, you should actually care about the patients, but the salary is something you should consider when you are choosing a career.

    Although having said that, your lifestyle is dependant on your salary, not the other way round. Thats how people go and get in debt.

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