[RollerBall]

As it stands I'm about 60kg, 5'8"ish with about 10% body fat. I'm right at the start of my training and was originally planning on following starting strength. So 3 work outs a week, 3x5 squat always, alternating 3x5 bench/press, 1x5 deadlift on Wednesday and 3xfailure chin ups on Monday/Friday.

However, I'm a little worried as I've seen mixed opinions in terms of gaining fat while gaining strength. I'd rather maintain my low body fat % while gaining muscle. I have almost zero muscle mass either. Is it possible for me to gain muscle/strength without going up to 18-20% body fat and the needing the cut?

My diet as it stands isn't very great. I was always bitching about how ecto I was until I sat and really thought about it. I do have very narrow shoulders/wrists though. My diet is basically:

1. Protein shake/bar for breakfast
2. Some sort of sandwhich/fruit for lunch
3. Protein shake/bar for pre-dinner/post-workout depending on day
4. Dinner is some sort of stir fry/pasta/chicken dish. Usually 2 breasts of chicken + some veg + a carb (pasta/rice/noodles).

As it stands I don't think I'll have any problem hitting 110gs of protein per day with the following food but I'm not too sure about my Kcals. I don't want my gains to stall and my muscle mass to not go anywhere but I don't want to push my already low body fat % up either.

[RawJoh1]

(Original post by RollerBall)
As it stands I'm about 60kg, 5'8"ish with about 10% body fat. I'm right at the start of my training and was originally planning on following starting strength. So 3 work outs a week, 3x5 squat always, alternating 3x5 bench/press, 1x5 deadlift on Wednesday and 3xfailure chin ups on Monday/Friday.

However, I'm a little worried as I've seen mixed opinions in terms of gaining fat while gaining strength. I'd rather maintain my low body fat % while gaining muscle. I have almost zero muscle mass either. Is it possible for me to gain muscle/strength without going up to 18-20% body fat and the needing the cut?

My diet as it stands isn't very great. I was always bitching about how ecto I was until I sat and really thought about it. I do have very narrow shoulders/wrists though. My diet is basically:

1. Protein shake/bar for breakfast
2. Some sort of sandwhich/fruit for lunch
3. Protein shake/bar for pre-dinner/post-workout depending on day
4. Dinner is some sort of stir fry/pasta/chicken dish. Usually 2 breasts of chicken + some veg + a carb (pasta/rice/noodles).

As it stands I don't think I'll have any problem hitting 110gs of protein per day with the following food but I'm not too sure about my Kcals. I don't want my gains to stall and my muscle mass to not go anywhere but I don't want to push my already low body fat % up either.

It is possible to gain weight slowly and minimise fat gain, yes. Is that what you're asking?

Not a lot of food there. Not gonna sustain progress on SS very long on that diet, I reckon. TBH, you're 60kg. Getting fat isn't really your concern and isn't going to happen quickly.

[sil3nt_cha0s]

Lean bulk will depend on:

a) genetics
b) strictly controlled calories and macros

a) is in your favour seeing as you're ecto (lower propensity to store fat)

b) is pretty much impossible to carry out exactly. you'd need to work out your BMR precisely, then weigh each bit of food and each bit of drink precisely, measure how many calories you're burning precisely etc.

Better to over-compensate. Any bit of fat you do put on (probably not much if you're ecto) can easily be stripped away (because you're ecto).

[RollerBall]

(Original post by RawJoh1)
It is possible to gain weight slowly and minimise fat gain, yes. Is that what you're asking?

Not a lot of food there. Not gonna sustain progress on SS very long on that diet, I reckon. TBH, you're 60kg. Getting fat isn't really your concern and isn't going to happen quickly.

Yeah, that's what I'm asking in a rather roundabout way.

To be fair I could add another meal on after dinner, following a similar principle of a stirfry/pasta/chicken etc left over from dinner but a smaller portion size.

[desijut]

(Original post by RollerBall)
Yeah, that's what I'm asking in a rather roundabout way.

To be fair I could add another meal on after dinner, following a similar principle of a stir/fry/pasta etc left over from dinner but a smaller portion size.

If you're that skinny (like i am), then gaining weight isnt going to be easy, you need to eat more than that and keep at SS

[RawJoh1]

(Original post by RollerBall)
Yeah, that's what I'm asking in a rather roundabout way.

To be fair I could add another meal on after dinner, following a similar principle of a stir/fry/pasta etc left over from dinner but a smaller portion size.

That's one idea. I used to make a big vat of spag bol every couple of days, decant into tupperware and just have one around 10pm (previous meal at about 6pm).

Aside from adding another meal, an obvious change is your breakfast. By "protein shake" I assume you mean just whey + milk. Add some oats, some fruit maybe. 2 scoops whey, 2 scoops oats, banana + milk goes down easy if you can't eat a lot of solids when you first get up.

[CallumTM]

You could use GOMAD along side SL5x5 (Stronglifts 5x5) to get yourself up and running, you'll gain a fair bit of body fat, but you'll easily pack on weight and muscle, if you keep your normal eating routine alongside GOMAD, that's an extra 2400Kcal a day!
Plus cause you're an ecto, some clean dieting and a bit of cardio will easily solve that fat gain problem!
http://stronglifts.com/gomad-milk-sq...n-gain-weight/ <- this is all the information you need for GOMAD and you can find the SL 5x5 info on the same site!

[NB_ide]

(Original post by RollerBall)
As it stands I'm about 60kg, 5'8"ish with about 10% body fat. I'm right at the start of my training and was originally planning on following starting strength. So 3 work outs a week, 3x5 squat always, alternating 3x5 bench/press, 1x5 deadlift on Wednesday and 3xfailure chin ups on Monday/Friday.

However, I'm a little worried as I've seen mixed opinions in terms of gaining fat while gaining strength. I'd rather maintain my low body fat % while gaining muscle. I have almost zero muscle mass either. Is it possible for me to gain muscle/strength without going up to 18-20% body fat and the needing the cut?

My diet as it stands isn't very great. I was always bitching about how ecto I was until I sat and really thought about it. I do have very narrow shoulders/wrists though. My diet is basically:

1. Protein shake/bar for breakfast
2. Some sort of sandwhich/fruit for lunch
3. Protein shake/bar for pre-dinner/post-workout depending on day
4. Dinner is some sort of stir fry/pasta/chicken dish. Usually 2 breasts of chicken + some veg + a carb (pasta/rice/noodles).

As it stands I don't think I'll have any problem hitting 110gs of protein per day with the following food but I'm not too sure about my Kcals. I don't want my gains to stall and my muscle mass to not go anywhere but I don't want to push my already low body fat % up either.

I want to see pics of you first, and how did you measure your bf%?

This is important.

[Arturo Bandini]

Of course it's possible, just a bit slower than an all out bulk.

If I was you, I'd find out my BMR, and ensure I'm getting 500 cals more than that a day. If progress after a couple of months is too much fat, lower it to 300 cals over BMR, and so forth. As a beginner you're gonna have to play about to find out what's right for you. But I'd bet a lot that that diet you posted, is NOT what's right for you. doesn't look like anywhere near enough food.

[Illidan_Stormrage]

please don't do GOMAD. Even as an ecto there is no need to drink a gallon of milk a day.

[Average_Aaron]

Yes of course. Just eat very slightly over maintenance. 100-300 TOPS



Anyone that tells you you have to get fat to gain muscle is a liar!

[Like a BAWS]

Rather than a month of full-on GOMAD, I drink about a third of the GOMAD amount, that way its much more sustainable and can still pack on some calories without developing a massive amount of fat in the process . I honestly have no idea how people have managed to drink a gallon of milk every day, feels sick just thinking about it.

[SEHughes]

OP, you need to gain weight. Regardless of how you do it, your bodyfat isn't going to stay at 10%, but as long as pizza and ice cream don't make up the majority of your diet, you're not going to turn into a fat bastard.

Eat more, and eat more real food. You'll be fine.

[HFerguson]

dont do GOMAD, just do 4 pints of whole milk a day

[Old School]

The whole concept of 'clean bulking' is retarded.

OP if you want to get big and strong eat some damn food. If you're eating like a grown up (i.e. not eating lots of crappy cereals, crisps, chocolate etc.) then you won't get fat.

Sure your starvation pack may become a little faint but be realistic. Abs on a skinny guy are like big narks on a fat girl- they just don't count.

Example- I went from a lean (and small) 75kg to a soft 105kg in just under a year. I've since trimmed a little and I am now about as lean as I was at 75kg but I weigh around 90kg. I achieved this by not eating like a girl and training hard.

'Clean bulking' gets you nowhere because you aren't consuming enough in order to promote any significant growth and as a result you will plateau within months, if not weeks.

[McHumpy92]

I always enjoy old school's iron brotherhood comments...going round the gym in his hoodie with his shaker, giving the big guys the nod.

Always love it when bully victims get into bodybuilding it provides me entertainment in the gym.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by alex_tait)
please don't do GOMAD. Even as an ecto there is no need to drink a gallon of milk a day.

Agreed.

Alongside my diet, I drank 2.2 litres of whole fat milk per day and I was gaining 2-4 lbs per week - and that's with quite a manual job and training at Krav Maga twice a week (so more kcal burned).

At a 2-4 lbs gain per week - needless to say I've gained alot of fat. I was skinny-fat to begin with and now I basically look like crap, despite the muscle I've gained. Sometimes it's just not necessary to consume that many kcal to gain strength and muscle as a beginner.

Although my lifts went up rather well, which is the meat of the programme...in fairness.

[Old School]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
I always enjoy old school's iron brotherhood comments...going round the gym in his hoodie with his shaker, giving the big guys the nod.

Always love it when bully victims get into bodybuilding it provides me entertainment in the gym.

Lol, that's actually a pretty accurate representation, bar the shaker thing. I tend not to bother with protein shakes unless I don't really want to cook something.

As for the 'iron brotherhood comments' thing, you may take the piss but what I say works:

Eat really big, lift really big and as often as you can. Too many people get caught up in all the little details that really don't matter (bf%, what degree of incline is best on an incline press, whether dumbell curls are better than barbell curls etc. etc.) and make no progress as a result.

And, FYI I was bullied at school. Really bad. I inherited a lot of body issues as a result and bodybuilding gives me some control and as a result small way of coping with them. Glad that provides you with some light relief.

[InTheCity]

A simple way to do it is cycle your carb intake. High carbs on heavy days, medium carbs on less intense days and low carbs on rest days. Replace the calories lost with proteins and fats (like nuts etc).

[McHumpy92]

It does...from reading bodybuilding forums I have come to the conclusion pretty much all 'bodybuilders' have got issues and usually stemming from height or been bullied.

Just try and not let it ruin your social life...too many scared of missing a meal or 'empty calories' in booze.