[travoot]

Having just logged on to a quote from a user who proclaimed me a disgrace to the Labour party for not supporting Livingstone, it got me thinking about the state parties in at the moment. Having supported David in the leadership election i cant say it astounds me too much to that Ed doesen't have the backbone to throw down the gauntlet and say enough is enough!

Whether you're from the right of the party or the left you share the simple belief that people must pay their taxes. How anyone can actually believe a man who's conned the state out of money actually deserves the right of wearing a red Rosetta is beyond me.

The law is the law whether your political colours are Red, Yellow or Blue. Just because he's our candidate it does not excuse him from acting in such a self-interested way and it's an absolute disgrace to our party. How on earth can people be expected to take what he says seriously, and it's hard enough all ready, when he wants one rule for him and one rule for others. For all his rhetoric on bashing the bankers hes seriously no different. He's a wealthy man who manipulates the law for his own self-interested gain and frankly it's unacceptable.

I'll be out canvassing this Sunday for my local candidate despite knowing I haven't a chance in hell of changing the vote in a ward split evenly between the Liberals and the Conservatives.

This is the only acceptable form of party tribalism. You CANNOT give someone your vote solely because of party loyalty. In most cases it wouldn't matter because you're very unlikely to disagree with your candidate on many issues and much more likely to oppose Labour/Conservatives/LibDems or whoever else you're not a fan of. Ken Livingstone stands for EVERYTHING that Labour is against and if you vote for him your vote will be justification for twisting legal loop holes and in so doing you will never have the right to critisize tax avoidance again. It's no good complaining about so and so when you've backed your own party candidate doing the EXACT same thing.

We'll loose the Mayor elections, and frankly if we don't sort out this embarrassing leadership we'll be loosing in 2015 too.

[Radradrad]

I'm just going to leave these here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...icalcolumnists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ne?INTCMP=SRCH

As a fellow member of the Labour Party I am no big fan of Ken and his links to some rather dodgy organisations along with his own tax issues as has been discussed in the other thread. Ken should have retired ages ago. The British Left should remove all connection with this breed of old school Leftist politicians.

I am, however, voting for him as my second choice in the election through gritted teeth.

[travoot]

(Original post by Radradrad)
I'm just going to leave these here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...icalcolumnists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ne?INTCMP=SRCH

As a fellow member of the Labour Party I am no big fan of Ken and his links to some rather dodgy organisations along with his own tax issues as has been discussed in the other thread. Ken should have retired ages ago. The British Left should remove all connection with this breed of old school Leftist politicians.

I am, however, voting for him as my second choice in the election through gritted teeth.

Who may I ask will be your first choice? Siobhan Benita?

[Radradrad]

(Original post by travoot)
Who may I ask will be your first choice? Siobhan Benita?

Jenny Jones. Don't get the fuss for Siobhan. Nothing wrong with her but she is just very safe and centrist. I'm sure she will pick up a lot of votes. The one candidate that has surprised me is Paddick.

[joey11223]

I'm not a follower of mayoral elections but I DID read this in the metro today. So despite his flaws he, according to himself, almost gave his doctor an orgasm because he's so fit.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/896484-s...ctor-an-orgasm

Not sure if his doctor was male or female...what are Kens views on LGBT issues?

[travoot]

(Original post by joey11223)
I'm not a follower of mayoral elections but I DID read this in the metro today. So despite his flaws he, according to himself, almost gave his doctor an orgasm because he's so fit.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/896484-s...ctor-an-orgasm

Not sure if his doctor was male or female...what are Kens views on LGBT issues?

He's a pretty consistent advocate for the gay rights movement, which is one of the only things I like about him. Saying that though, it's hard to differentiate between his views and his targeted voting base.

[najinaji]

(Original post by joey11223)
I'm not a follower of mayoral elections but I DID read this in the metro today. So despite his flaws he, according to himself, almost gave his doctor an orgasm because he's so fit.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/896484-s...ctor-an-orgasm

Not sure if his doctor was male or female...what are Kens views on LGBT issues?

[Rhadamanthus]

The Labour Party really cocked up in choosing Ken over Oona King.

[Maddog Jones]

Labour party member here too. I'm not in London, but if I was, I'd be putting Jenny Jones first, Livingstone second.

I don't like Livingstone's tax-dodging, but I'd rather have him than an out-of-touch Conservative in hard times for people in London.

I do quite like Ken - I think he genuinely believes passionately in helping the most disadvantaged. Not that he's not a hypocrite with this whole tax thing though.

[TGH1]

(Original post by Maddog Jones)
I don't like Livingstone's tax-dodging, but I'd rather have him than an out-of-touch Conservative in hard times for people in London.

Ken Livingstone spent tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money on trips to Latin America and spends a lot of time working for Iran and Hugo Chavez. He's definitely out of touch.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by TGH1)
Ken Livingstone spent tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money on trips to Latin America and spends a lot of time working for Iran and Hugo Chavez. He's definitely out of touch.

"Out-of-touch" and "same old tories" are two ironic sounbites we will be hearing more and more until 2015, i'm convinced that labour's spin doctors have used the term enough in the guardian and their little string puppets like Owen Jones have circulated the words enough, or, its a conspiracy and through their groupings and think tanks they all decide to bombard the world with the phrases, chanting them over and over whilst cloaked in red veil's.

Labour politicians are just as out-of-touch if not moreso than many tories.

[Bornblue]

I can't stand the Tories so I vote Labour. I vote for the party not the candidate.

[travoot]

(Original post by Bornblue)
I can't stand the Tories so I vote Labour. I vote for the party not the candidate.

Earlier you called me a disgrace to the party because I won't be able to bring myself to vote for Livingstone and you're yet to give any justification beyond the realms of party tribalism.

Will you then reaffirm the idea that you see no problem with voting for a 'Labour' candidate who goes against the foundations of the party itself. How can the very concept of a privileged man using his wealth to avoid state taxation not cause you to recoil in disgust. If you were so devoted to the party itself then surely you're as big a hypocrite as him if you're apparently a Labour supporter but you don't agree with the tenants of the parties philosophy.

[Maddog Jones]

(Original post by travoot)
Earlier you called me a disgrace to the party because I won't be able to bring myself to vote for Livingstone and you're yet to give any justification beyond the realms of party tribalism.

Will you then reaffirm the idea that you see no problem with voting for a 'Labour' candidate who goes against the foundations of the party itself. How can the very concept of a privileged man using his wealth to avoid state taxation not cause you to recoil in disgust. If you were so devoted to the party itself then surely you're as big a hypocrite as him if you're apparently a Labour supporter but you don't agree with the tenants of the parties philosophy.

To be fair though, when we're talking about devotion to Labour values, Ken beats all the others. He may be a tax-evading bastard, but he's still going to stick up for the disadvantaged more than Boris (and they're the only real candidates). If you're voting on terms of Labour values, its got to be Ken.

Lets just hope Labour don't pick him next time <_<

[moonkatt]

(Original post by joey11223)
I'm not a follower of mayoral elections but I DID read this in the metro today. So despite his flaws he, according to himself, almost gave his doctor an orgasm because he's so fit.

Perhaps this is a sign of him starting to take a leaf out of Vladimir Putin's book of public relations. Would be amusing so see him wrestling a bear in Trafalgar Square to show off his macho credentials.

[Bornblue]

(Original post by travoot)
Earlier you called me a disgrace to the party because I won't be able to bring myself to vote for Livingstone and you're yet to give any justification beyond the realms of party tribalism.

Will you then reaffirm the idea that you see no problem with voting for a 'Labour' candidate who goes against the foundations of the party itself. How can the very concept of a privileged man using his wealth to avoid state taxation not cause you to recoil in disgust. If you were so devoted to the party itself then surely you're as big a hypocrite as him if you're apparently a Labour supporter but you don't agree with the tenants of the parties philosophy.

Absolutely. Because not voting for him means Boris gets in. I don't care what Ken's done.

[travoot]

(Original post by Maddog Jones)
To be fair though, when we're talking about devotion to Labour values, Ken beats all the others. He may be a tax-evading bastard, but he's still going to stick up for the disadvantaged more than Boris (and they're the only real candidates). If you're voting on terms of Labour values, its got to be Ken.

Lets just hope Labour don't pick him next time <_<

I'd rep you for the last part but I'm out of rep for today.

[travoot]

(Original post by Bornblue)
Absolutely. Because not voting for him means Boris gets in. I don't care what Ken's done.

So you believe tax avoidance is perfectly acceptable and thus won't be complaining about anyone in the political arena who doesn't pay their taxes. Either you're against something or for it. Do you support tax evasion? Yes/no.

Ironically if you really think it's acceptable to avoid your taxes then you'll probably find you're batting for the wrong team.

[Bornblue]

(Original post by travoot)
So you believe tax avoidance is perfectly acceptable and thus won't be complaining about anyone in the political arena who doesn't pay their taxes. Either you're against something or for it. Do you support tax evasion? Yes/no.

Ironically if you really think it's acceptable to avoid your taxes then you'll probably find you're batting for the wrong team.

I don't think it's acceptable. No not at all. But the alternative is a a Conservative mayor, one whom I despise. So therefore I will vote Ken.

[travoot]

(Original post by Bornblue)
I don't think it's acceptable. No not at all. But the alternative is a a Conservative mayor, one whom I despise. So therefore I will vote Ken.

As I've said previously, whether or not you vote Ken is irrelevant as this feud we're having is due to you calling me out as a disgrace for not supporting Ken. Now it's my turn to make the accusations. I put it to you, that you're the disgrace if you truly think that the wealthy avoiding tax is an act that can in any way be incorporated into Labour party values.