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To those who are anti-immigration - what is your ideal situation of the UK?

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    Well, what is it?

    Say, you got what you wanted and there was a total ban on immigration or at least an ultra-strict quote, what would happen then?

    Would you drive out the immigrants already here?
    How many generations would drive out (i.e. what about the 2nd generation, 3rd, 4th etc?)?

    Would you go further and ensure the majority of 'white' Britons? What would that entail? Would you forfeit the EU membership? Would you even allow EU immigrants in? Any other white immigrants? Immigrants from the nearby Republic (i.e. Éire)?

    What would be your next steps? Motives?

    Thoughts, thoughts?
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    My thoughts, as someone who would like to see tighter controls on immigration, are that forced removal of people already granted citizenship here would be expensive, counter-productive and wrong. I feel that there should be more emphasis on potential immigrants to prove their eligibility to come here. This should involve looking at whether being a citizen's spouse is sufficient qualification to allow entry. Also the nature of certain Commonwealth members should be considered. If there were significant controls on immigration from members such as Bangladesh, Ghana, Nigeria and Pakistan, it could make a significant difference to total numbers entering this country.

    In addition to the above, the government needs to significantly improve our immigration service which, at present, is simply not effective enough.
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    I think most people are not anti-immigration but rather anti mass immigration. England is a small country on a small island with a population that is already bigger than Canada's and some other much larger countries. It cannot cope. It also doesn't help that immigrants often become segregated and communities divided. This produces fear and ignorance, the root of so much evil in the world.
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    Ideal situation?

    A cap of about 10,000 or 20,000 people allowed into the country each year, they must pass a Citizenship test and speak reasonable English. Also must be skilled, any un-skilled people must find a job before they are allowed to settle.
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    Eu Immigrants only please with most coming from Ireland,Germany and Sweden.
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    (Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
    Ideal situation?

    A cap of about 10,000 or 20,000 people allowed into the country each year, they must pass a Citizenship test and speak reasonable English. Also must be skilled, any un-skilled people must find a job before they are allowed to settle.
    Citizenship tests are only relevant to those seeking citizenship. A cap seems stupid, otherwise I agree. How would you work the cap, allow 1,000 people in per month? In some months you'll have a greater influx of skilled workers in other months not, in some years there would be more skilled people wanting to come in other years not so much. You'd end up getting bad immigrants in times when there's lower rates of people entering the country and missing out on good immigrants when things get busy.
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    Off the top of my head, to do something about the deteriorating social fabric in this country, restore self-discipline and social investment among different groups (including immigrants and young people):

    1) I'd have everyone sit proper citizenship tests (not the current crap), and any 1st gen immigrants participate in mandatory national service (including, but not limited to, military service)

    1a) People who had / whose ancestors had moved to the UK after 1945 would be compelled to leave the country if they failed citizenship tests on two attempts, or if they refused national service

    1b) People who had / whose ancestors had moved to the UK prior to 1945 would be offered two options if they failed citizenship tests on two attempts:

    • Join an educational program and participate in a community based volunteering scheme so as to immerse them in British life, and re-take citizenship tests every 6 months until they pass

    • Deportation

    1c) School leavers would also participate in either national service for a year (as above) or take gap years abroad (character, community, fraternity and discipline building)

    2a) People who had / whose ancestors had moved to the UK after 1945 would be deported immediately if found guilty of a crime and given a prison sentence

    2b) The household who had / whose ancestors had moved to the UK after 1945 would be compelled to leave the country if a member of that household was found guilty of a crime of a very serious nature

    3) PSHE/sex education type lessons would be taken out of school altogether, and incorporated into (regulated) fortnightly youth groups run by young role models on Sunday evenings (akin to Sunday school, keeping the ethical education but dropping the religious slant). School holidays would include time doing Duke of Edinburgh/Scouts stuff, some of it in the community, with these groups
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    (Original post by HighestKungFu)
    I think most people are not anti-immigration but rather anti mass immigration. England is a small country on a small island with a population that is already bigger than Canada's and some other much larger countries. It cannot cope. It also doesn't help that immigrants often become segregated and communities divided. This produces fear and ignorance, the root of so much evil in the world.
    Whilst I get the argument that the UK has a relatively high population density, I don't really see this as an argument against immigration. First of all the fact that the UK is an island is entirely irrelevant. It's not like the country is ever going to get so full to the point where people will start falling into the North Sea, and it's not like when France gets too full people will just start spilling over into Germany or Switzerland .

    Secondly the UK's population could double and our population density would be very high, yes, but not devastatingly so. Even in that scenario, which is completely ridiculous anyway and will never happen, our population density would be comparable to that of Lebanon, or South Korea.

    Basically what I'm saying is that whilst the immigration debate doesn't interest me hugely, and I can see the arguments about divided communities (not that I think stopping immigration is necessarily a long term solution), the arguments about population density are a bit naff .
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    (Original post by kingsholmmad)
    My thoughts, as someone who would like to see tighter controls on immigration, are that forced removal of people already granted citizenship here would be expensive, counter-productive and wrong. I feel that there should be more emphasis on potential immigrants to prove their eligibility to come here. This should involve looking at whether being a citizen's spouse is sufficient qualification to allow entry. Also the nature of certain Commonwealth members should be considered. If there were significant controls on immigration from members such as Bangladesh, Ghana, Nigeria and Pakistan, it could make a significant difference to total numbers entering this country.

    In addition to the above, the government needs to significantly improve our immigration service which, at present, is simply not effective enough.
    Whats wrong with the immigrants cpming from Nigeria and Pakistan etc?
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    (Original post by HighestKungFu)
    I think most people are not anti-immigration but rather anti mass immigration. England is a small country on a small island with a population that is already bigger than Canada's and some other much larger countries. It cannot cope. It also doesn't help that immigrants often become segregated and communities divided. This produces fear and ignorance, the root of so much evil in the world.
    This is very true
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Citizenship tests are only relevant to those seeking citizenship. A cap seems stupid, otherwise I agree. How would you work the cap, allow 1,000 people in per month? In some months you'll have a greater influx of skilled workers in other months not, in some years there would be more skilled people wanting to come in other years not so much. You'd end up getting bad immigrants in times when there's lower rates of people entering the country and missing out on good immigrants when things get busy.
    Maybe not citizenship tests, but a moderately difficult test about the history, geography and politics of the United Kingdom, alongside an English test.

    Obviously skilled immigrants would take priority, and as people applied they would be put on waiting lists that would overflow into the next month, and there would be a fixed rate for each month. Also all immigrants would be subject to an extensive background check, and those with criminal records in their country of origin would most likely be turned away.
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    (Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
    Maybe not citizenship tests, but a moderately difficult test about the history, geography and politics of the United Kingdom, alongside an English test.

    Obviously skilled immigrants would take priority, and as people applied they would be put on waiting lists that would overflow into the next month, and there would be a fixed rate for each month.
    The waiting list thing sounds very inefficient and would be bad for the economy. During busier periods skilled migrants would be forced to wait many months and the unskilled workers who have jobs lined up will need to get into the country so they can start in time. Same applies for skilled workers who are coming to work for a British company. The whole waiting list bureaucracy is a disaster in waiting and you'll end up with skilled workers going elsewhere and British companies relocating because operating in the UK has become too troublesome.
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    (Original post by JackAVFC)
    Eu Immigrants only please with most coming from Ireland,Germany and Sweden.
    any Nederlanders?
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    (Original post by effofex)
    any Nederlanders?
    The guy is pro-White, so if you are White, then yes..
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    (Original post by tieyourmotherdown)
    Whilst I get the argument that the UK has a relatively high population density, I don't really see this as an argument against immigration. First of all the fact that the UK is an island is entirely irrelevant. It's not like the country is ever going to get so full to the point where people will start falling into the North Sea, and it's not like when France gets too full people will just start spilling over into Germany or Switzerland .

    Secondly the UK's population could double and our population density would be very high, yes, but not devastatingly so. Even in that scenario, which is completely ridiculous anyway and will never happen, our population density would be comparable to that of Lebanon, or South Korea.

    Basically what I'm saying is that whilst the immigration debate doesn't interest me hugely, and I can see the arguments about divided communities (not that I think stopping immigration is necessarily a long term solution), the arguments about population density are a bit naff .
    Many people object to the relentless consumption of our countryside to build more, more, more houses for the swelling population. It also increases pollution and generally makes things more crowded. Other people would happily live in a super-dense city with no sign of nature. Personally I think it's absurd that, for example around where I live, the official plan is to build some 100's of 1000s of new homes in the next decade, almost entirely on farmland. It changes the character of the area for the worse.


    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    The waiting list thing sounds very inefficient and would be bad for the economy. During busier periods skilled migrants would be forced to wait many months and the unskilled workers who have jobs lined up will need to get into the country so they can start in time. Same applies for skilled workers who are coming to work for a British company. The whole waiting list bureaucracy is a disaster in waiting and you'll end up with skilled workers going elsewhere and British companies relocating because operating in the UK has become too troublesome.
    With, what, 2-3 million people in the country already out of work, do you imagine that the current pool of candidates is already large enough without importing more?
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    (Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
    Maybe not citizenship tests, but a moderately difficult test about the history, geography and politics of the United Kingdom, alongside an English test.

    Obviously skilled immigrants would take priority, and as people applied they would be put on waiting lists that would overflow into the next month, and there would be a fixed rate for each month. Also all immigrants would be subject to an extensive background check, and those with criminal records in their country of origin would most likely be turned away.
    Seriously????but a moderately difficult test about the history, geography and politics of the United Kingdom...how much do you ( I'm assuming you are a british citizen)know about your history, geography and politics??..why do you think immigrants would care about the above, if they so happen to be interested in it fine but if that's not the case it shouldn't be forced upon anyone..most just come here to work or seek an education. I completely agree with the english test though, it's important that immigrants be able to communicate with others in the country they move to..and the back ground checks too.
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    (Original post by NB_ide)
    With, what, 2-3 million people in the country already out of work, do you imagine that the current pool of candidates is already large enough without importing more?
    Unemployed people =/= candidates for any job.

    There's plenty of companies based in the UK who need candidates with specific skills of which there is a shortage of in the UK.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Unemployed people =/= candidates for any job.

    There's plenty of companies based in the UK who need candidates with specific skills of which there is a shortage of in the UK.
    What sort of skills? And would it be possible to train people here to have those skills or is it something that's only taught over-seas?
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    (Original post by NB_ide)
    What sort of skills? And would it be possible to train people here to have those skills or is it something that's only taught over-seas?
    They need people who are multilingual so they can negotiate deals with buyers in Japan/China, they need someone who has lived in Nigeria digging up oil so he can do the same thing in Aberdeen, an expensive hotel which hosts wealthy people will need Indian/Japanese chefs on those specific nights. Music/art/theatre/football/rugby etc. all need world class people working for them who are often from abroad.

    In some cases you might be able to train them here but in most cases they'd simply not be good enough.
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    (Original post by someonesomewherexx)
    Seriously????but a moderately difficult test about the history, geography and politics of the United Kingdom...how much do you ( I'm assuming you are a british citizen)know about your history, geography and politics??
    Because they should know the basics of the country they are going to live in.

    How much do I know about History, Geography and Politics? A lot.

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