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Man shoots dead ex-partner and child in honour killing

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    He forced Miss Chambers to take off her clothes and cut clumps from her hair

    Beforehand, the man said: 'If I can’t have you, then no-one can'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nger-them.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-17762875

    Is this an honour killing?
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    Yes
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    He forced Miss Chambers to take off her clothes and cut clumps from her hair

    Beforehand, the man said: 'If I can’t have you, then no-one can'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nger-them.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-17762875

    Is this an honour killing?
    Of course it is! These days Britain seems to be under the impression that honour killings are when there's a murder and the people involved have brown skin.
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    Not really, the term honor killing is used to refer to an act of murder in retaliation for someone doing something that is seen to "shame" a family or group thus by the family or group killing the person they are demonstrating they hold complete contempt and absolutely no feelings for this person and are under the impression they are regaining some kind of honor that they feel was lost by the person acting in the way they did.

    This is a murder fueled by a sense of jealousy and regret that a relationship had ended, not really what the term honor killing is usually used for.
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    (Original post by Dreamweaver)
    I dont understand how a farther can murder his own 2 year old girl in cold blood.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    Not really, the term honor killing is used to refer to an act of murder in retaliation for someone doing something that is seen to "shame" a family or group thus by the family or group killing the person they are demonstrating they hold complete contempt and absolutely no feelings for this person and are under the impression they are regaining some kind of honor that they feel was lost by the person acting in the way they did.

    This is a murder fueled by a sense of jealousy and regret and not really what the term honor killing is usually used for.
    Surely if it's about shame it should be called 'shame killings'? The definition of honour killing which I've heard is an act of murder which is motivated by the violation of a person's honour. I feel this is applicable in this context. His honour was violated.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    what the hell man!? i wanted to see if he was the father.
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    I don't think this counts as an honour killing since the motives were anger, jealousy and regret at the prospect of only having limited contact with his daughter, rather than a sense that the victims had somehow shamed him or his family.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Surely if it's about shame it should be called 'shame killings'? The definition of honour killing which I've heard is an act of murder which is motivated by the violation of a person's honour. I feel this is applicable in this context. His honour was violated.
    the point of honor killings is that by killing the person the killer(s) regain some of that honor in their own eyes or the eyes of their community. This guy killed his ex-partner and his child because he wanted her back and she said no, by killing her and the child he was acting in revenge and out of regret not to regain some kind of honor back.
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    Honour killing? far from it...
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    (Original post by bizzybee247)
    I don't think this counts as an honour killing since the motives were anger, jealousy and regret at the prospect of only having limited contact with his daughter, rather than a sense that the victims had somehow shamed him or his family.
    This^^^^

    He wasn't killing them to "restore his honour" he killed them because of his own jealousy and anger.
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    Not an honour killing; disgusting nonetheless.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    the point of honor killings is that by killing the person the killer(s) regain some of that honor in their own eyes or the eyes of their community. This guy killed his ex-partner and his child because he wanted her back and she said no, by killing her and the child he was acting in revenge and out of regret not to regain some kind of honor back.
    In serious honour crimes do people get credit from the community for killing their family members or something? I thought it just something they did because their own ego (honour) was violated and in order to restore it they needed to punish the violator.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    In serious honour crimes do people get credit from the community for killing their family members or something? I thought it just something they did because their own ego (honour) was violated and in order to restore it they needed to punish the violator.
    Official pc response?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    No, honor killings are only committed by a very small minority of people and the vast majority of people who come from cultures where they occur are rigorously opposed to them.


    Real response?
    Spoiler:
    Show
    Honor related violence is something that has been increasing dramatically over the last 20 years, charities have heavily criticized the police force and basically accused them of voluntary ignorance. Nearly all honor related violence is in retaliation for someone doing something that is culturally frowned upon, if someones daughter decides she doesn't want to wear a headscarf in a community that is rigorously pro-headscarf no one is going to care if her family decide to give her a kicking to "teach her a lesson". If that extends to the level of murder? I don't know, but people don't try and restore honor in a community with an act they think will be frowned upon.
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    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    Not an honour killing; disgusting nonetheless.
    Of course...can't be an honour killing unless it's a muslim :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Playa10)
    Of course...can't be an honour killing unless it's a muslim :rolleyes:
    What the hell are you talking about? The killing was fuelled by anger and jealously it nothing to do with restoring honour, which is the motive behind honour killings.

    Who said anything about Muslims?
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    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    What the hell are you talking about? The killing was fuelled by anger and jealously it nothing to do with restoring honour, which is the motive behind honour killings.

    Who said anything about Muslims?
    How are you able to draw the line between 'anger and jealousy' killing and 'restoring honour' killings. The line is very fine indeed. Had it been a muslim in this instance, everyone would just disregard the 'anger and jealousy' killing and would readily find an inference towards 'honour killing'
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    (Original post by Playa10)
    How are you able to draw the line between 'anger and jealousy' killing and 'restoring honour' killings. The line is very fine indeed. Had it been a muslim in this instance, everyone would just disregard the 'anger and jealousy' killing and would readily find an inference towards 'honour killing'
    The fact is that tragically this women and child were killed. I don't see the point in arguing over the definition of the killing; I don't know what you're trying to achieve by bringing Muslims into this - has no relevance.
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    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    The fact is that tragically this women and child were killed. I don't see the point in arguing over the definition of the killing; I don't know what you're trying to achieve by bringing Muslims into this - has no relevance.
    I understand the disgusting nature of the killing here, and although i didn't want to bring muslims in this thread, had it been a muslim, everyone would have been scolding the religion. But let's leave it then
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    (Original post by Playa10)
    How are you able to draw the line between 'anger and jealousy' killing and 'restoring honour' killings. The line is very fine indeed.
    A fine line? It's a canyon between them. Those are 2 completely different motives, one is because he doesn't want anyone else to be with his ex-wife and daughter, the other is because one feels dishonoured by the others actions. There is no connection between the emotions 'jealousy' and 'dishonour'.

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Updated: April 19, 2012
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