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Chances of getting into LSE for Law.

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Original post by Tsunami2011
You're missing my point. If someone follows a very basic outline for a Law PS, and avoids making any grammar/spelling errors, their personal statement will be a decent personal statement by default. However, if you're applying for LSE, you're expected to look at the course outline, the manner in which its taught, and ensure that you tailor your personal statement appriorately. I cannot stress how many people DO NOT do this. They write a generic personal statement and just apply for the top 10 universities. For example, if you're applying to Oxford or Cambridge, you can just chuck in one line about your extra curricular. However, for Durham, that would probably mean a rejection. This doesn't make your PS 'poor' it just means you're not suited to the university.


i did get your point, i just don't agree with it.
i am basing my view on these assumptions. tell me which ones you do not agree with.

1. the vast majority of applicants will want to go to lse as a firm or insurance choice
2. considering the vast majority of applicants will be A* students, well above average, they will most likely research what lse wants in a personal statement and tailor their personal statement to lse.
3. i think they will do this as having more than 4 A* indicates a high level of both effort and ability put into their work. i do not understand why someone would put a ****load of effort into all the work they do, EXCEPT the one piece of work that makes or breaks their chance to go to their favorite uni.

can you explain why you think that someone who gets more 4A*s does not put effort into tailoring their personal statement for lse if that is the uni they want to go to, considering they put effort into everything else?
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 21
Original post by Tsunami2011
However, if you're applying for LSE, you're expected to look at the course outline, the manner in which its taught, and ensure that you tailor your personal statement appriorately. I cannot stress how many people DO NOT do this. They write a generic personal statement and just apply for the top 10 universities. For example, if you're applying to Oxford or Cambridge, you can just chuck in one line about your extra curricular. However, for Durham, that would probably mean a rejection. This doesn't make your PS 'poor' it just means you're not suited to the university.


Agreed generally. Durham does allow you to turn in an alternative p.s and they claim to discard your original p.s without looking at it if that's the case.

Original post by overninethousand
i did get your point, i just don't agree with it.
i am basing my view on these assumptions. tell me which ones you do not agree with.

1. the vast majority of applicants will want to go to lse as a firm or insurance choice
2. considering the vast majority of applicants will be A* students, well above average, they will most likely research what lse wants in a personal statement and tailor their personal statement to lse.
3. i think they will do this as having more than 4 A* indicates a high level of both effort and ability put into their work. i do not understand why someone would put a ****load of effort into all the work they do, EXCEPT the one piece of work that makes or breaks their chance to go to their favorite uni.

can you explain why you think that someone who gets more 4A*s does not put effort into tailoring their personal statement for lse if that is the uni they want to go to, considering they put effort into everything else?


1. Whilst this is true, LSE's requirements are now synonymous with about 8 law schools in the country - and it is the highest law offer in the country - so, generally, one cannot want LSE to be their insurance. Given the amount of schools with this requirement, LSE may not always be someone's firm. If you have these grades you are likely to also apply to Oxbridge. Although I agree that for the majority of people it probably is a second choice (distinct from insurance choice unless you meant combined the two terms).

2. Whilst I think this is generally true, one can also decide to tune their personal statement towards what UCL, or Durham or Warwick want for example. Oxford also states what they'd like to see in a personal statement which again is slightly different from what LSE specify.

3. Generally. BUT see 1 for where it may not fully hold.

That said, it's not that hard to get around these school's preferences - most law schools would probably like LSE's guidelines in a p.s anyway. As an anecdote: I think following LSE's guidelines (most importantly of which I think people miss out is to evaluate a contemporary law) is important as LSE may not strongly consider people who did not follow the guidelines given how much esteem they hold the ps in. You could make Warwick's "law in context" fit into the statement, Durham allows you to do an optional additional ps where you can write one with more extracurriculars (I ultimately did not do this although that was my plan). Oxbridge probably don't care much either way as they get to interview and are probably used to people writing statements slightly geared towards other universities who do not have the luxury of interviewing. UCL has guidelines which, depending on your interests can fit with the above. So, without sounding like a tool, for my own academic interests, it was easy to tie them together and it did not disadvantage me anywhere. I think certain interests are easier to fit across the board. However, if your interests strongly correlate with one school and not others (I have no idea what Bristol/Exeter etc want) then you are likely to be rejected at at least one where your application does not contain what they are looking for.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 22
Go for it, you get 5 choices and as long as you've got a chance you'll always regret not trying.

I wouldn't look at your GCSEs and say yeah this girl is definitely getting an offer, but I certainly wouldn't count you out without considering the rest of your application. Make sure you write a brilliant personal statement and get good references and hopefully you'll get that offer :-)
Original post by ratio
Agreed generally. Durham does allow you to turn in an alternative p.s and they claim to discard your original p.s without looking at it if that's the case.



1. Whilst this is true, LSE's requirements are now synonymous with about 8 law schools in the country - and it is the highest law offer in the country - so, generally, one cannot want LSE to be their insurance. Given the amount of schools with this requirement, LSE may not always be someone's firm. If you have these grades you are likely to also apply to Oxbridge. Although I agree that for the majority of people it probably is a second choice (distinct from insurance choice unless you meant combined the two terms).

2. Whilst I think this is generally true, one can also decide to tune their personal statement towards what UCL, or Durham or Warwick want for example. Oxford also states what they'd like to see in a personal statement which again is slightly different from what LSE specify.

3. Generally. BUT see 1 for where it may not fully hold.

That said, it's not that hard to get around these school's preferences - most law schools would probably like LSE's guidelines in a p.s anyway. As an anecdote: I think following LSE's guidelines (most importantly of which I think people miss out is to evaluate a contemporary law) is important as LSE may not strongly consider people who did not follow the guidelines given how much esteem they hold the ps in. You could make Warwick's "law in context" fit into the statement, Durham allows you to do an optional additional ps where you can write one with more extracurriculars (I ultimately did not do this although that was my plan). Oxbridge probably don't care much either way as they get to interview and are probably used to people writing statements slightly geared towards other universities who do not have the luxury of interviewing. UCL has guidelines which, depending on your interests can fit with the above. So, without sounding like a tool, for my own academic interests, it was easy to tie them together and it did not disadvantage me anywhere. I think certain interests are easier to fit across the board. However, if your interests strongly correlate with one school and not others (I have no idea what Bristol/Exeter etc want) then you are likely to be rejected at at least one where your application does not contain what they are looking for.


1. i did mean second choice, though you could set it as insurance in the hope that should you fail your firms offer, lse would take you anyway (wont happen but wtf if all your offers are A*AA you may as well)

2. i would say tuning your offer towards oxford wont effect your chances significantly as i assume (perhaps wrongly) a very large portion of oxford offer holders will also hold lse offers (and vice versa). i would argue that tuning your PS towards oxford, lse or ucl will not effect your chances of acceptance into the other two as:
1. all are top unis so they will most likely have very similar requirements
2. im sure plenty of people hold offers from at least 2 after having applied to all 3
(i think im sort of just rewriting what you wrote, i basically agree with you)
3. im not including anything outside lse, oxf, ucl in this as if you apply to any of these three they most likely to be you first choice so why would you tune ur PS to bristol in the first place

if you say that it does affect your chances significantly, fair enough, but i would still argue that for the majority of applicants lse is their first choice and they will tune their PS accordingly.

and even if you were to say its not the first choice for the majority of applicants. i would say that there are still more applicants that tune their PS perfectly for lse and still get rejected, all this while having perfect grades (ie 9+ A*s at gcse, 4+ A at AS and 4+ A* predictions)
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by overninethousand
no chance. gcse grades a bad compared to standard lse law applicant. most applicants will have most of their gcse grades at A* and the rest As (including 3 sciences and maths - not soft subjects) at AS level they would would have more than 4 AS levels at A grade. btw business studies is seen as a soft subject.

A friend of mine got rejected with straight As / A*s at gcse and 6 As at AS and predicted A* for all his A level grades.

your grades arent bad compared to the general population, but lse will be a wasted option.


Gutted. I know someone who got in for Law with mostly Bs at GCSE (no A*s) and a really bad personal statement. She did two 'soft' A levels too. She applied as an international though, so that prolly made a difference :lol:
Reply 25
Original post by AverageExcellence
you only did 9 gcses?


Yes that was the most you could do at my school, unless you did them elsewhere in your own time
Original post by SleepySheep
Gutted. I know someone who got in for Law with mostly Bs at GCSE (no A*s) and a really bad personal statement. She did two 'soft' A levels too. She applied as an international though, so that prolly made a difference :lol:


im pretty sure it did :P i have a few international friends who got into Edinburgh with BBB offers (and they are BBB students as well (the standard course offer is at least 2 grades higher i believe)) while some home students with better grades did not receives offers, for the same course. considering lse is even more international im guessing this happens even more there. and before anyone mentions it, all the PS were the similar level of mediocre
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 27
Original post by overninethousand
1. i did mean second choice, though you could set it as insurance in the hope that should you fail your firms offer, lse would take you anyway (wont happen but wtf if all your offers are A*AA you may as well)

2. i would say tuning your offer towards oxford wont effect your chances significantly as i assume (perhaps wrongly) a very large portion of oxford offer holders will also hold lse offers (and vice versa). i would argue that tuning your PS towards oxford, lse or ucl will not effect your chances of acceptance into the other two as:
1. all are top unis so they will most likely have very similar requirements
2. im sure plenty of people hold offers from at least 2 after having applied to all 3
(i think im sort of just rewriting what you wrote, i basically agree with you)
3. im not including anything outside lse, oxf, ucl in this as if you apply to any of these three they most likely to be you first choice so why would you tune ur PS to bristol in the first place

if you say that it does affect your chances significantly, fair enough, but i would still argue that for the majority of applicants lse is their first choice and they will tune their PS accordingly.

and even if you were to say its not the first choice for the majority of applicants. i would say that there are still more applicants that tune their PS perfectly for lse and still get rejected, all this while having perfect grades (ie 9+ A*s at gcse, 4+ A at AS and 4+ A* predictions)


Yes, I think we are generally in agreement and only differ on tiny details. About the bolded bit, I never contested that one will hold offers from at least two.It is possible to hold Oxford and UCL offers as their guidelines are blurred and they both select partly on the basis of the LNAT. I do contest that if someone ignores LSE's specific guidelines that they will get in there. LSE is so specific and forthcoming with what they are looking for that it might not reflect well on an application if they ignore this.There will always be outliers and, because of competition, there will always be people who follow all the guidelines but for whatever reason their personal statement isn't compelling enough. As they say, meeting the minimum requirements doesn't guarantee an offer. (As an aside, LSE says even in some of their admissions literature that if you want dreaming spires they are not the school for you. And also if you p.s reflects certain modules they don't offer e.g. Ancient History which is offered at Cambridge and UCL. What I'm saying is these statements MAY suggest - I have no proof for this - that they don't look too approvingly on statements clearly geared towards Oxford's course but not theirs.)

Ultimately this is all conjecture though so OP, if you feel you can write a sufficiently compelling p.s then try LSE but be aware that it is a long-shot and choose your remaining options accordingly.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by ratio
Yes, I think we are generally in agreement and only differ on tiny details. About the bolded bit, I never contested that one will hold offers from at least two.It is possible to hold Oxford and UCL offers as their guidelines are blurred and they both select partly on the basis of the LNAT. I do contest that if someone ignores LSE's specific guidelines that they will get in there. LSE is so specific and forthcoming with what they are looking for that it might not reflect well on an application if they ignore this.There will always be outliers and, because of competition, there will always be people who follow all the guidelines but for whatever reason their personal statement isn't compelling enough. As they say, meeting the minimum requirements doesn't guarantee an offer. (As an aside, LSE says even in some of their admissions literature that if you want dreaming spires they are not the school for you. And also if you p.s reflects certain modules they don't offer e.g. Ancient History which is offered at Cambridge and UCL. What I'm saying is these statements MAY suggest - I have no proof for this - that they don't look too approvingly on statements clearly geared towards Oxford's course but not theirs.)

Ultimately this is all conjecture though so OP, if you feel you can write a sufficiently compelling p.s then try LSE but be aware that it is a long-shot and choose your remaining options accordingly.


yep i would agree with you on all of that. :biggrin:
Reply 29
Original post by SleepySheep
Gutted. I know someone who got in for Law with mostly Bs at GCSE (no A*s) and a really bad personal statement. She did two 'soft' A levels too. She applied as an international though, so that prolly made a difference :lol:


I have no idea what the specific details in your case are but I will posit that this is very far from being the norm. I'm assuming your friend got in for law and not sociology or something. LSE has no shortage of academically excellent international students vying for spots in its most competitive programs. I doubt they will feel obliged to take in many weaker candidates because they are international. Bear in mind that their performance at LSE and thus what they are able to do afterwards will reflect on LSE and how they can maintain their reputation. The admissions officers aren't stupid and if this girl did not improve greatly from her GCSE's she probably won't meet the offer anyway.

Perhaps she improved or, no offense, you aren't a good judge of p.s standard or you don't know the full story? Your school, for example, believed in her enough to predict her the grades and write the references to get in there. (I know that there are many issues with grade predictions but again admissions tutors are not stupid, they want to see the potential to achieve the grades). Again, some subjects place less weight on GCSE's than law so I am assuming, because you posted this in a law query, that she got in for law.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 30
Original post by AK0001
LOL!

If you think that your argument is convincing.

edit: why the neg?


My argument doesn't need to be a long discourse on the nature of LSE selection. You seem to be an arrogant ********.
My friend got in to study Economics Bsc at LSE, with 1A*, 4A's, 6B's and a D.
This is for 2012 Entry, if you private message me I can give you his facebook or the like if you wish to discuss it with him.

I'm trying to imbue the OP with a sense of hope, using complimentary stories which will encourage him, because it is definitely achievable.
You on the other hand are just being a morose, cynical pig. **** yourself.
Original post by Rachoo12
My argument doesn't need to be a long discourse on the nature of LSE selection. You seem to be an arrogant ********.
My friend got in to study Economics Bsc at LSE, with 1A*, 4A's, 6B's and a D.
This is for 2012 Entry, if you private message me I can give you his facebook or the like if you wish to discuss it with him.

I'm trying to imbue the OP with a sense of hope, using complimentary stories which will encourage him, because it is definitely achievable.
You on the other hand are just being a morose, cynical pig. **** yourself.


funnily enough, he was encouraging the op to apply. he was just pointing out that you didnt provide any evidence to back up your advice, which was true after all (and you should have done if you want people to take you seriously). also just saying 'my friend got in' doesnt mean anything. he could have had extenuating circumstances or some great work experience etc. (ie he had to have something to make up for his gcse grades as he definitely didnt get in on the basis of them, but rather in spite of them) without telling the op what this thing was, your entire post was useless as AK0001 pointed out.

just out of interest did your friend apply as a home or international student?

also telling the op to apply for universities she isnt likely to get into isnt helping her. telling her mindlessly to 'be positive' and making her apply to lse and other extremely competitive unis could mean she ends up with 5 rejections. in the end your 'encouragement' could mean the op doesnt even go to university.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 32
Original post by Rachoo12
My argument doesn't need to be a long discourse on the nature of LSE selection. You seem to be an arrogant ********.
My friend got in to study Economics Bsc at LSE, with 1A*, 4A's, 6B's and a D.
This is for 2012 Entry, if you private message me I can give you his facebook or the like if you wish to discuss it with him.

I'm trying to imbue the OP with a sense of hope, using complimentary stories which will encourage him, because it is definitely achievable.
You on the other hand are just being a morose, cynical pig. **** yourself.


I never asked for a 'long discourse'. I never denied that your friend did get an offer to study at the LSE. What I said was that your argument was not very convincing.

If you read my post to the OP, you would see that I suggested that they had a chance of getting in.

Why are you so angry?
Reply 33
Original post by Alexvs
I was wondering what my chances of getting into LSE for Law are with gcse's : 1 A*, 5 's, 2 B's and 1 C. AS levels AAAB and predicted A-Level grades of AAAA in French, Spanish, English Literature and Business Studies. I know my gcses aren't the best and have heard they are very specific with what GCSE grades are required but do you think i have a chance??


Forget your gcses, you're predicted less than their standard offer of A*AA. There's 2500 applicants for 150 places so that would be a quick opportunity to reject you? Is there no way of improving them.

And the economics anecdotes are irrelevant. Your not applying for economics. Different departments look for different things. Someone was predicted 4A* and had 8A* at gcse and was rejected as he didn't have any further maths for econ. If someone has 1A* at gcse but some further maths they're obv better prepared for a quantitative economics course.

With law there's no heavy bias to certain subjects so gcse's will naturally play a bigger part.
Original post by ratio
x


I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean by specific guidelines here? I haven't come across anything from LSE or that states what they would specifically like in a Law Personal Statement?
Reply 35
Original post by Defragmentation
I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean by specific guidelines here? I haven't come across anything from LSE or that states what they would specifically like in a Law Personal Statement?

On the law page there is a specific "What is looked for in the personal statement" section:

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/howToApply/departmentalAdmissionsCriteria/law.aspx

There are more general guidelines provided by the university here:
http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/howToApply/makingAnApplication/personalStatement/generalInformation.aspx

I tailored my UCAS personal statement based on the first link. I also looked at the second one although I found that to be more common sense guidelines.

Hope that helps.
Original post by ratio
On the law page there is a specific "What is looked for in the personal statement" section:

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/howToApply/departmentalAdmissionsCriteria/law.aspx

There are more general guidelines provided by the university here:
http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/howToApply/makingAnApplication/personalStatement/generalInformation.aspx

I tailored my UCAS personal statement based on the first link. I also looked at the second one although I found that to be more common sense guidelines.

Hope that helps.


That's brilliant thanks. I had only come across the second link, and yeah as you said they're just general guidelines.

Do you have anything similar for Oxford or UCL?
Reply 37
Original post by Defragmentation
That's brilliant thanks. I had only come across the second link, and yeah as you said they're just general guidelines.

Do you have anything similar for Oxford or UCL?



I don't remember any Oxford guidelines (I looked into it but I ultimately applied to Cambridge). The faculty website lists qualitative assessment criteria or something like that. I imagine Oxford puts a premium on the interview and LNAT. Write your statement based on some other uni you like. UCL's website might have some information but I found their UCAS entry to be more useful - check the "application and selection" subsection. (some of the information is outdated, for example, it mentioned World Legal Orders which they have stopped offering).

All the guidelines begin to read like vague abstractions after combing through a few. Once you write a good personal statement, based on your genuine interests and guidelines from one competitive school, it will probably do the job for most of your options. For what it's worth: I structured my personal statement around LSE's guidelines and I got into Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Durham. I withdrew my application from Warwick.

(You didn't mention Durham but, apparently, they like "well-rounded" applicants. They give you the option of writing a substitute personal statement for them. I debated this because my statement had minimal space dedicated to extracurriculars. In the end, I was too lazy to write another statement).

Good luck with the p.s and the LNAT. :smile:
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by AverageExcellence
you only did 9 gcses?


lots of schools only do 9. private schools especially as there's a huge misconception that the more you do the better you look, which is idiotic.
Original post by ratio
I don't remember any Oxford guidelines (I looked into it but I ultimately applied to Cambridge). The faculty website lists qualitative assessment criteria or something like that. I imagine Oxford puts a premium on the interview and LNAT. Write your statement based on some other uni you like. UCL's website might have some information but I found their UCAS entry to be more useful - check the "application and selection" subsection. (some of the information is outdated, for example, it mentioned World Legal Orders which they have stopped offering).

All the guidelines begin to read like vague abstractions after combing through a few. Once you write a good personal statement, based on your genuine interests and guidelines from one competitive school, it will probably do the job for most of your options. For what it's worth: I structured my personal statement around LSE's guidelines and I got into Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Durham. I withdrew my application from Warwick.

(You didn't mention Durham but, apparently, they like "well-rounded" applicants. They give you the option of writing a substitute personal statement for them. I debated this because my statement had minimal space dedicated to extracurriculars. In the end, I was too lazy to write another statement).

Good luck with the p.s and the LNAT. :smile:


Thanks for all the help :smile:

WOW you got offers from all four of those universities?! Your application must have been incredible :tongue:. I'll be applying to Oxford, LSE, UCL, Durham and Bristol and to be honest, I'd be incredibly happy with just an offer from a few of them aha.

Yeah, I think all the universities that I'm applying you want you to display an informed interest in current affairs, which I've hopefully demonstrated.

Thank you :'), Enjoy the law course at Cambridge I'm assuming :tongue:?

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