[Fruitcake_OX]

Following the recent plight of fascination with Gypsies, no doubt after the hit 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' - alot of press coverage has been awarded to gypsies and their unique way of life.

My personal experiences with gypsies, have to be honest, been totally unpleasent although I appreciate this isnt always true - which i think is wonderfully reflected in 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' in certain case studies.

However it cannot be ignored that many aspects of their way of life are EXTREMELY offensive to the adverage Brittish person - things like:

Grabbing
Sexism
Young Marriages (often portrayed as against the naive girls wishes)
Tax Avoidance
Illegal fighting and other activities
Horse racing on highways
Lack of education and employable skills

All of these are FACTS, they happen, its shown clearly in the media. So therefore opinions on other things like the way the girls dress - which makes them look like 9 year old prositutes by societies standards.

So therefore is our predjuices acceptable because of these facts, or is it still a case of racism in your eyes?

What are your opinions on Gypsies?

[karateworm]

I quote my Dad:

"I have no problem with people of any creed, race... people on the whole, are people... you can get on with just about anyone. But at the end of the day, I really dislike gypsies..."

[cl_steele]

firstly i dont believe it can be racism considering theyre not a race secondly the prejudice is hardly unwarrented...
heres an example; couple of years ago the place i live in was a nice little country village, low crime and very picturesque last year a gypo camp moved in up the road since then the crime rate has gone through the roof and anything not bolted to the floor has gone, even then half the time the blighters would simply take a jack hammer to the thing. the place has gone to **** and it is these 'peoples' fault, theyre vile and the my big fat gypsy wedding just goes to further highlight theyre highly questionable ways and the simple fact that theyre nothing but a thieving bunch of pikeys.
and with specific regard to grabbing ... is it not plain and simple sexual assault?
deport the ****ers back to ireland.

[yun]

(Original post by Fruitcake_OX)

All of these are FACTS, they happen, its shown clearly in the media.

because the media is known to always show us nothing but facts

i think it's impressive how long the gypsies have managed to keep up their way of life in a foreign environment. i don't know how long they've been in britain, but here in serbia they started settling in the 15th century and their lifestyle is still so different. not everything is "good" about it from our western point of view, but on the other hands who are we to tell them how to live?

[The Good]

I also have had unpleasant personal experiences with Travellers that disgusted me;however to judge an entire group of people through limited personal experience and media coverage is irrational and illogical, and technicaly racist.

I believe the ‘laws’ protecting Travellers from the law should be seriously reviewed - such as the issue of tax and their occupation of land.

[weirdnessandcoffee]

I think the main problem people have with them is them not paying tax which shows there not active citizens, they get benefits that they truly do not deserve. I mean, they can keep their cultural practices to themselves and I don't see anything wrong with keeping their culture to themselves, even I don't agree with it.

[llacerta]

Gypsies are very easy to stereotype, and a lot of people have had negative experiences with gypsies. For example, last year, one of the roads near our house was blocked off because a gypsy family were in mourning, and hence had constructed a bonfire in the middle of the road and sat around it for a few days. The police were completely in support of this, despite the fact that if someone else had done something similar and requested for a road to be blocked off, I doubt it would have been allowed.

So, in such a situation, it would be very easy for me to say that I dislike gypsies. However, judging tens of thousands of people on the back of my (limited) personal experiences with gypsies and on a TV show is not something I could do.

Yes, they have a 'culture' which doesn't rub along very well by our current 'societal standards', but not everyone who considers themselves a gypsy indulges in all of the things you've mentioned.

In short, discrimination against a person for their background is still a form of discrimination, no matter how much experience we may feel we have had with other people of the same background.

[najinaji]

I don't see how judging what can at best be classed as a group with a separate 'culture' can be called racist. It is as if people have actually forgotten what that term means. When you speak of something being racist, it only pertains to matters of race/ethnicity. Nothing else. Even insulting the culture of a specific country cannot really be called racist.

Apart from that, when it comes to travellers, many people's problem with them tends to be that they won't leave them alone (high crime rates, behave poorly in school etc.) and that they don't leave their own people alone either (forcing girls to leave school early, forcing them to become young subservient wives, high levels of violence and so on). At the end of the day, these are legal matters, even when it comes to the rights of traveller girls. Whether they want to marry a person or not, or leave school or not, is a matter of law and human liberty, and should be treated as such.

[Tahooper]

I think people have every right to be:

• Annoyed by their refusal to pay tax
• Disgusted by their lack of education
• Horrified by their treatment towards women and animals

These are not prejudices, as prejudice means having a preconceived opinion towards a matter. But as we have seen and know what Gypsy culture is really like, then I think it is a fair judgment of them.

[Greenlaner]

Gypsy is a very broad term. There are many, often radically different cultural groups in different parts of the country that identify as "travellers" or "gypsies". My Big Fat Gyspy Wedding is by no means representative of all of them, nor even just the Irish travellers as a whole for that matter.

They are like any other group of people at the end of the day. I have met plenty in my life time (there are a lot in my area), some were just down right dispicable people (effectively just chavs in caravans) who any sane person would avoid like the plague. Others have been among some of the most decent and respectable people i have ever met, and certainly not unintelligent or unskilled.

[Iron Lady]

Especially the fly-tipping they do near to the Golf course.

[Tolth]

(Original post by Fruitcake_OX)
Following the recent plight of fascination with Gypsies, no doubt after the hit 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' - alot of press coverage has been awarded to gypsies and their unique way of life.

My personal experiences with gypsies, have to be honest, been totally unpleasent although I appreciate this isnt always true - which i think is wonderfully reflected in 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' in certain case studies.

However it cannot be ignored that many aspects of their way of life are EXTREMELY offensive to the adverage Brittish person - things like:

Grabbing
Sexism
Young Marriages (often portrayed as against the naive girls wishes)
Tax Avoidance
Illegal fighting and other activities
Horse racing on highways
Lack of education and employable skills

All of these are FACTS, they happen, its shown clearly in the media. So therefore opinions on other things like the way the girls dress - which makes them look like 9 year old prositutes by societies standards.

So therefore is our predjuices acceptable because of these facts, or is it still a case of racism in your eyes?

What are your opinions on Gypsies?

There's plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the social breakdown and issues with crime in Traveller communities. The problem is that the majority of British people are massive closet racists and cannot discuss, say, the issues with a lack of education in Traveller groups without adding a short blurb on how "THEY DRESS THEIR KIDS LIKE PROSTITUTES, I KNOW BECAUSE I DONE SAW IT ON THE TELLY, **** THE PIKEYS".

[Bête]

(Original post by najinaji)
I don't see how judging what can at best be classed as a group with a separate 'culture' can be called racist. It is as if people have actually forgotten what that term means. When you speak of something being racist, it only pertains to matters of race/ethnicity. Nothing else. Even insulting the culture of a specific country cannot really be called racist.

Apart from that, when it comes to travellers, many people's problem with them tends to be that they won't leave them alone (high crime rates, behave poorly in school etc.) and that they don't leave their own people alone either (forcing girls to leave school early, forcing them to become young subservient wives, high levels of violence and so on). At the end of the day, these are legal matters, even when it comes to the rights of traveller girls. Whether they want to marry a person or not, or leave school or not, is a matter of law and human liberty, and should be treated as such.

Yes racism pertains to race (naturally). But I think the issue here is simply linguistic not substantial. The reason why racism is condemnable is because it assumes that collective entities (like race) can account for much of the variations in individual characteristics (like intelligence). This is false (you really can't know whether a person is intelligent, honest, etc by looking at her race) and it's the same with culture. Just because you're a gypsy doesn't mean that you're .... *insert cultural stereotype*. To be honest, I think cultural prejudice is even more condemnable than racism. Being Asian or Black is something very concrete which can't be changed. Being culturally American can not even be defined in any accurate way. Culture is a very fuzzy concept.

[ckingalt]

Brad Pitt was awesome in Snatch.

[Dagnabbit]

(Original post by cl_steele)
firstly i dont believe it can be racism considering theyre not a race secondly the prejudice is hardly unwarrented...
heres an example; couple of years ago the place i live in was a nice little country village, low crime and very picturesque last year a gypo camp moved in up the road since then the crime rate has gone through the roof and anything not bolted to the floor has gone, even then half the time the blighters would simply take a jack hammer to the thing. the place has gone to **** and it is these 'peoples' fault, theyre vile and the my big fat gypsy wedding just goes to further highlight theyre highly questionable ways and the simple fact that theyre nothing but a thieving bunch of pikeys.
and with specific regard to grabbing ... is it not plain and simple sexual assault?
deport the ****ers back to ireland.

Okay so they're not a race but they all come from Ireland?

[Keckers]

The experiences I have had with gypsies ultimately has lead me to be sure my prejudices are no longer prejudices. I have witnessed members of the travelling community fly tipping in the countryside around my home village, they are basically completely exempt from the vast majority of taxation and those that work do so cash in hand and the are the definition of cowboy traders. I have absolutely no time for them.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Dagnabbit)
Okay so they're not a race but they all come from Ireland?

the ones im talking about are Irish tinkers not the original Romani gypsies, never seen a problem with those ones and theyre quite rare to come across. All the people on MBFGW are just tinkers. So yes back to Ireland. Not uite sure if you were implying the Irish were a race there though ?

[Keckers]

(Original post by SubAtomic)
However, if gypsies do not pay tax etc etc then why do the gypsy women get housing and child benefit

U.K gone mad

In all honesty I have no idea what benefits they are and are not entitled to due to issues surrounding the lack of permanent residence or address, so I don't feel I can comment on it.

What I do know however is that more often than not they are exceedingly wealthy. A police raid on a gypsy site a few miles away from us revealed a £4 million stash of cash in a hidey hole in the site. (As well as hoards of stolen property)

[andyyy]

(Original post by Greenlaner)
Gypsy is a very broad term. There are many, often radically different cultural groups in different parts of the country that identify as "travellers" or "gypsies". My Big Fat Gyspy Wedding is by no means representative of all of them, nor even just the Irish travellers as a whole for that matter.

If people ever identified as "gypsy" (which is doubtful because the term means "Egyptian" and comes from Greek not a Romani language), few do it nowadays because the term has many pejorative connotations.

[TomDixie]

In a society built around people living in set places there will always be friction with those who go against this norm and travel from place to place. However, I fully respect their right to continue with their culture.

Unfortunately, my only experiences with gypsies have been fairly negative. In the last 10 years of living in my current home gypsies have set up camp nearby three times, each time the crime rate went up during their stay and they left their campsites (for want of a better word) in green belt land an absolute mess.

It'd be a difficult problem to solve.