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Food Myths

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    (Original post by nutrition2012)

    One of my tutors actually specialises in fructose and told me fructose could possibly be responsible for obesity because sugar is being replaced by HFCS and obesity rates have been increasing since. It's believed that fructose increases energy intake because it doesn't activate the satiety pathways like glucose does. But there's currently no evidence as noone is willing to fund the studies especially food industries which wouldn't want any studies to suggest they stop using it as it's cheap.
    Sounds like a win-win situation for the food industry. I saw a programme about it from the States where the schools and companies in a small town got together and agreed to exclude all products from diets that had artificially added fructose and they recorded over a 5-yr period a 20% drop in obesity. I will try and find the link - it was on C4 a couple of years ago.
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    (Original post by SHABANA)
    I went to Leeds Uni and I'm currently on a PGCE in Secondary Science. That's what I meant - that people who are obese/little exercise are more likely to get it because they over-eat, but then don't use that Glucose (for example) for anything so it has to be stored so that can only go on for so long.
    If you eat it, wouldn't the cell walls eventually be broken down? So with juice you make get a peak in blood sugar, but overall wouldn't the sugars be the same amount?
    Diabetes is actually nothing to do with glucose storage, it's actually adipose tissue which releases TNF-alpha and affects insulin sensitivity - hence the more fat cells you have the more TNF-alpha you will have circulating in the bloodstream and greater insulin resistance. Studies have shown this association, the reduced sensitivity to insulin means the beta-cells have to produce extra insulin which increase over time until it exhausts the beta-cells and results in beta-cell failure.

    And to answer your question, I believe it might affect the GI of the fruit juice and GI is linked to satiety as when blood glucose falls it could trigger the release of ghrelin which stimulates hunger. But the GI part is a guess, we tell people to reduce extrinsic sugars because it could increase energy intakes and cause dental cavities. To be honest, in nutrition we don't tend to focus on those topics people discuss on the newspapers as they have very little evidence a lot of the time, but I'm guessing the main reason fruit juice would be bad is because you would be consuming a lot more sugar than if you were to eat fruit (say, fruit juice may have 4 oranges in one glass but you would not eat 4 oranges in one go normally)
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    (Original post by zara55)
    Sounds like a win-win situation for the food industry. I saw a programme about it from the States where the schools and companies in a small town got together and agreed to exclude all products from diets that had artificially added fructose and they recorded over a 5-yr period a 20% drop in obesity. I will try and find the link - it was on C4 a couple of years ago.
    interesting! are you studying nutrition too? and if so, where?
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    interesting! are you studying nutrition too? and if so, where?
    Nope, studying Law at Edinburgh - just interested, that's all. My Dad is a lawyer and he was involved in several cases to do with the food industry that basically went after large food companies about various unpleasant things they do to employees - got me interested in their antics. Also I try to follow a healthy diet and want to know the facts.
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    Whether you genuinely know what you're talking about or not you come across as very confused.

    You claim that sugars are a problem however it isn't as simple as that. Obesity and having a poor lifestyle in general (ie; dietary excess, inactivity, lots of saturated fats, etc) are far more important factors. Simply consuming high GI carbs is not going to give you T2 diabetes, really it needs to be in excess and/or in combination with obesity.

    You also seem to use glucose/carbs/sugar interchangeably, one minute you're talking about sugars, then glucose, then simply "carbs" in general being the cause of diabetes - they are not all synonymous.



    Concentrate simply means that the juice was dehydrated for easier/cheaper transport and then rehydrated. It has nothing to do with sugar being added or not. Some people even argue that concentrate might be better for you because the vitamins and minerals it contains are better preserved. Horses for courses.

    Frankly you're better off eating fruit rather than drinking juices which are more calorific and easier to consume in excess.
    Sorry for the confusion. Yes Type II occurs due to a number of different factors, but I think the original post which started this was "Eating sugar gives you diabetes" or something like that. Over-eating + not exercising means any extra sugars in the blood are not being used for respiration, so are stored. I don't know much about fats contributing to diabetes so can't comment on that.
    By concentrate I mean the ones like Robinsons.
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    Diabetes is actually nothing to do with glucose storage, it's actually adipose tissue which releases TNF-alpha and affects insulin sensitivity - hence the more fat cells you have the more TNF-alpha you will have circulating in the bloodstream and greater insulin resistance. Studies have shown this association, the reduced sensitivity to insulin means the beta-cells have to produce extra insulin which increase over time until it exhausts the beta-cells and results in beta-cell failure.

    And to answer your question, I believe it might affect the GI of the fruit juice and GI is linked to satiety as when blood glucose falls it could trigger the release of ghrelin which stimulates hunger. But the GI part is a guess, we tell people to reduce extrinsic sugars because it could increase energy intakes and cause dental cavities. To be honest, in nutrition we don't tend to focus on those topics people discuss on the newspapers as they have very little evidence a lot of the time, but I'm guessing the main reason fruit juice would be bad is because you would be consuming a lot more sugar than if you were to eat fruit (say, fruit juice may have 4 oranges in one glass but you would not eat 4 oranges in one go normally)
    So it does have to do with the storage - as the purpose of Insulin is to store Glucose as Glycogen?
    I agree it's much easier to over-consume if you are drinking it rather than eating it but I can't understand why drinking the same amount means you end up with more sugar. Could it be due to the rate of absorption? So if you're eating it, it takes time to break it down rather than having the sugars easily available
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    (Original post by SHABANA)
    http://helios.hampshire.edu/~cjgNS/s...0Reg/Gross.pdf

    Even the NHS websites suggests that diabetics (Type I) should eat starchy carbs. because that can help with not having sudden peaks in blood glucose levels. For Type II I think there may be some dispute over it.
    Sorry, just realised this paper - the results say increasing intakes of refined CHO and decreasing fibre correlates with T2DM. However, does this not suggest it is people who are likely to eat junk food (who hardly eat fruit and veg - fibre = satiety) are likely to eat more calories? The thing with studies are, you must learn to not just accept what the papers tell you but look at the results and possible flaws in the studies. To be honest, every researcher who researches something must have a preconceived idea of what they're studying - so bias is often present in papers.
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    (Original post by SHABANA)
    So it does have to do with the storage - as the purpose of Insulin is to store Glucose as Glycogen?
    I agree it's much easier to over-consume if you are drinking it rather than eating it but I can't understand why drinking the same amount means you end up with more sugar. Could it be due to the rate of absorption? So if you're eating it, it takes time to break it down rather than having the sugars easily available
    If you're drinking you ''eat'' a lot more fruit than you actually would eat once = increased energy intake
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)

    PS I'd advise you to revise your topic thoroughly there is absolutely NO evidence for carbohydrate consumption and diabetes - Please find me a study which states this?
    Don't carbohydrates get broken down into sugars (eg glucose)? And the increased sugar (eg glucose) would be a risk factor for type two diabetes?

    I'm not saying im correct, but this is what my A-level biology course would say, is it just one of those over-simplifications?



    Also, my biology teacher told me that all glucose that is absorbed from the blood is stored? is this also incorrect? (obviously in a non-diabetic)
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    (Original post by SHABANA)
    So it does have to do with the storage - as the purpose of Insulin is to store Glucose as Glycogen?
    I agree it's much easier to over-consume if you are drinking it rather than eating it but I can't understand why drinking the same amount means you end up with more sugar. Could it be due to the rate of absorption? So if you're eating it, it takes time to break it down rather than having the sugars easily available
    It is related to fat cells, but you kept mentioning it was to do with storage of glucose, it's not just glucose but other macronutrients could be converted to triglycerides too
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    No sugar is better for you, however, fructose is ''bad'' compared to glucose as it is more reactive than glucose and could glycate proteins

    One of my tutors actually specialises in fructose and told me fructose could possibly be responsible for obesity because sugar is being replaced by HFCS and obesity rates have been increasing since. It's believed that fructose increases energy intake because it doesn't activate the satiety pathways like glucose does. But there's currently no evidence as noone is willing to fund the studies especially food industries which wouldn't want any studies to suggest they stop using it as it's cheap.
    Regardless of how nutrients affect satiety there is a large behavioural component. The vast majority of obese people will continue to eat more and exercise less even in the face of impending obesity, and this goes on for years at a time. Whereas I might focus on eating less and upping my activity level if I notice I'm gaining fat (at a very early stage) the vast majority of people can't/won't/don't know how and that is primarily what needs to be addressed.
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    (Original post by poison.)
    Don't carbohydrates get broken down into sugars (eg glucose)? And the increased sugar (eg glucose) would be a risk factor for type two diabetes?

    I'm not saying im correct, but this is what my A-level biology course would say, is it just one of those over-simplifications?

    It's probably simplied for A-levels, as it's caused by a range of mechanisms but the biggest risk factor is obesity.

    Reminds me of what my teacher used to say:

    ''in GCSEs they will tell you everything you learnt before was wrong, in A-levels they will tell you everything you learnt in GCSEs were wrong and at university they will tell you everything you learnt at A-level was wrong'' haha

    There is some truth to that
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    Sorry, just realised this paper - the results say increasing intakes of refined CHO and decreasing fibre correlates with T2DM. However, does this not suggest it is people who are likely to eat junk food (who hardly eat fruit and veg - fibre = satiety) are likely to eat more calories? The thing with studies are, you must learn to not just accept what the papers tell you but look at the results and possible flaws in the studies. To be honest, every researcher who researches something must have a preconceived idea of what they're studying - so bias is often present in papers.
    Well, I think with diabetes nobody can say that a particular person will definitely get it, but whether there is an increased risk. So I would have though that someone who over-eats, has high GI food, and doesn't exercise has a higher risk of developing the disease. It doesn't mean they definitely will, but the link is obvious.
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    It's probably simplied for A-levels, as it's caused by a range of mechanisms but the biggest risk factor is obesity.

    Reminds me of what teacher used to say:

    ''in GCSEs they will tell you everything you learnt before was wrong, in A-levels they will tell you everything you learnt in GCSEs were wrong and at university they will tell you everything you learnt at A-level was wrong'' haha

    There is some truth to that
    well i'm doing biology in september and one of my best friends is doing nutrition, so we'll see (about a-levels being wrong)
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    Regardless of how nutrients affect satiety there is a large behavioural component. The vast majority of obese people will continue to eat more and exercise less even in the face of impending obesity, and this goes on for years at a time. Whereas I might focus on eating less and upping my activity level if I notice I'm gaining fat (at a very early stage) the vast majority of people can't/won't/don't know how and that is primarily what needs to be addressed.
    Is it a co-incidence for example that the people gathered around McDonalds often seem to be, well, for want of a euphemism, extremely fat? Is it that fat people are attracted to burger culture, or is it the other way around - that burger culture is what is making them fat?
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    Fruit Juices are healthier than Soft Drinks.
    Well they give you more vitamin C, that much is certain, but I'll agree that the sugar content is usually very high in both.
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    (Original post by zara55)
    Is it a co-incidence for example that the people gathered around McDonalds often seem to be, well, for want of a euphemism, extremely fat? Is it that fat people are attracted to burger culture, or is it the other way around - that burger culture is what is making them fat?
    They weren't born obese, but maybe as they ate more junk food but didn't increase how much they exercised it just becomes a normal type of behaviour for them. So it is both as in the burger culture made them fat to begin with, but then they continue to get fatter by being attracted to the burger culture. That's my opinion anyway
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    (Original post by zara55)
    Is it a co-incidence for example that the people gathered around McDonalds often seem to be, well, for want of a euphemism, extremely fat? Is it that fat people are attracted to burger culture, or is it the other way around - that burger culture is what is making them fat?
    It's actually partly to do with economics, fast food and energy dense food is cheap - you can't deny that. Fruit and vegetables are expensive and need to be prepared and not as convenient as ready meals and fast food etc
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    (Original post by poison.)
    well i'm doing biology in september and one of my best friends is doing nutrition, so we'll see (about a-levels being wrong)
    lol, so has your teacher said the same thing too?
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    (Original post by nutrition2012)
    It's actually partly to do with economics, fast food and energy dense food is cheap - you can't deny that. Fruit and vegetables are expensive and need to be prepared and not as convenient as ready meals and fast food etc
    Yes, it does appear to all be down to the economics of how the food industry can optimally exploit the poorer and less well-educated. One thing about this is that there is likely to be a huge crash in this "way of life" in the not-too-distant future. The economics of burgers are all based on the massive injection of oil-based fertilisers into soya production in Brazil. This is then expensively shipped (using more massive amounts of oil) to the meat producers in Argentina, Europe and the US, who use further massive oil inputs (feeds, drugs and pesticides) to raise unhealthy beef cattle and pigs, which in turn are (with more inputs of oil) turned into burgers and then road-shipped to supermarkets and burger bars.

    Double or treble the price of oil and one day - on a crisis tipping point - wumph! The whole system goes belly up. And a great many obese people will be staggering around wondering what on earth to eat. Expect ravening hordes of them thundering through the streets in search of a pie... a pasty.... anything....

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