[Darth Vader 7]

(Original post by WhatIsAUsername?)
If you're good enough to win it, you're good enough to defend it.

If you're good enough to win the CL, you should be good enough to finish in the top 4.

[In2deep]

(Original post by WhatIsAUsername?)
If you're good enough to win it, you're good enough to defend it.

Hey you

[Xotol]

(Original post by WhatIsAUsername?)
If you're good enough to win it, you're good enough to defend it.

I would argue the opposite. That should be true in most cases, but why can't those who win it (i.e. maybe Chelsea) get into the top 4, especially with supposedly inferior competition than juggernauts such as Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern?

A knockout stage tournament can have an element of luck - whether that be fortuitous matchups, lucky goals, teams having bad days, injuries etc etc. While the best teams usually do win it, it's not always the case. All it requires is one unlikely streak, and you're into the final. And then anything goes in the final.

A 38 games season depends on consistency, which I would say has more merit. Why should teams that have performed throughout the season against good and bad teams not get into the CL over teams that have performed well below standard (i.e. 6th place Chelsea) but have had a streak in a knockout tournament.

[Kevmeister]

(Original post by In2deep)


"The choice of which team to be excluded (either fourth-placed finishers Everton or Champions League winners Liverpool) fell to the FA, which was given this authority by the version of Champions League Regulation 1.03 then in force.."

They basically should have let Liverpool who won the CL go instead of 4th place Everton but did not do so. They complicated the matter and in the end both teams got into the qualifying rounds (along with Manchester United), it would have caused severe problems to the organisation of the group stages if 5 English teams got through..

They didn't swap Liverpool with Everton even though that was the precedent set in Europe and that was what the FA said they would do when the same problem almost arose in the previous season.

And UEFA decided the current set of rules, the ones that were put in place since that debacle. Why do you care about something that doesn't have any effect now?

You are an oddball.

[jam277]

(Original post by Xotol)
I would argue the opposite. That should be true in most cases, but why can't those who win it (i.e. maybe Chelsea) get into the top 4, especially with supposedly inferior competition than juggernauts such as Barcelona, Madrid and Bayern?

A knockout stage tournament can have an element of luck - whether that be fortuitous matchups, lucky goals, teams having bad days, injuries etc etc. While the best teams usually do win it, it's not always the case. All it requires is one unlikely streak, and you're into the final. And then anything goes in the final.

A 38 games season depends on consistency, which I would say has more merit. Why should teams that have performed throughout the season against good and bad teams not get into the CL over teams that have performed well below standard (i.e. 6th place Chelsea) but have had a streak in a knockout tournament.

If your team wins the CL, they should play in it the next season. They're good enough to beat the best of the best in europe. Remember when people were saying no team can beat the current barcelona or madrid side over two legs?

I know that the league shows consistency, but well you're allowed into the europa league if you win a domestic cup so why can't we give a CL spot for winning the CL or winning the europa league, it gives the cup more credit and gives them more motivation to win it. Do you think city would have lost to sporting if it was the champions league?

I know every team wants to win the champions league like they would want to win every other trophy, but some teams won't take the risk for their league form when they should be playing for all fronts equally.

[jilebinator]

I knew a Chelsea fan would come in to defend it.

[jilebinator]

Apparently both Walcott and Szczensy will be playing tomorrow, they were in training today.

[J.Star]

(Original post by jilebinator)
Apparently both Walcott and Szczensy will be playing tomorrow, they were in training today.

That's good news.

Start Walcott on the right, Gerv on the left, and Coq at RB and bring on Chamakh, Benayoun and Ox when our attack starts to tire.

[Darth Vader 7]

(Original post by J.Star)
That's good news.

Start Walcott on the right, Gerv on the left, and Coq at RB and bring on Chamakh, Benayoun and Ox when our attack starts to tire.

I'd personally start with Chamakh and play Van Persie just behind him with Rosicky playing box to box midfielder. It's a massive risk but it worked last weekend. However, I doubt Wenger will start with both of them. Anyway, our biggest problem has been defending.

[jam277]

(Original post by jilebinator)
I knew a Chelsea fan would come in to defend it.

Yay, I would have said this for liverpool in 05 as well in fact I did say this for liverpool in 05 that they should be in the CL, despite the fact I don't like them and they ****ing cheated us and got a ghost goal against us. But yay, I'm saying this because I'm biased...because that's obviously what you're implying.

By the way I'm being sarcastic if you didn't realise.

No one has answered my point but I've been negged to **** too. Yay. ****ing hell just focus on getting 3rd place and this won't be a problem.

[Darth Vader 7]

(Original post by jam277)
Yay, I would have said this for liverpool in 05 as well in fact I did say this for liverpool in 05 that they should be in the CL, despite the fact I don't like them and they ****ing cheated us and got a ghost goal against us. But yay, I'm saying this because I'm biased...because that's obviously what you're implying.

By the way I'm being sarcastic if you didn't realise.

No one has answered my point but I've been negged to **** too. Yay. ****ing hell just focus on getting 3rd place and this won't be a problem.

Stop arguing it. You're embarrassing yourself. If you're not good enough to get into the top 4 in your respective league, you shouldn't be in next year's Champions league. Simple. I don't care if you win the damn thing, you weren't consistent enough in the league which is the bread and butter of football. You can't argue against it. A team that is supposed to be the European champions should be good enough to be in the top 4.

[jam277]

(Original post by Darth Vader 7)
Stop arguing it. You're embarrassing yourself. If you're not good enough to get into the top 4 in your respective league, you shouldn't be in next year's Champions league. Simple. I don't care if you win the damn thing, you weren't consistent enough in the league which is the bread and butter of football. You can't argue against it. A team that is supposed to be the European champions should be good enough to be in the top 4.

Rules are rules tbh, tell the bloody UEFA this then. Yes we weren't consistent in the league, but a team good enough to win a competition is good enough to be in that competition the next time as they won it the year before. It's not like you have to transition your team for the next time like it's the euros and you're playing with 30 year olds.

Anyway, it's basically saying I'll just win nothing but aim for top 4, at least I'm in the competition the next year, that's a **** attitude to have, you should aim to win for all fronts, to make a competition more appealing, you need to make the benefits of winning it more appealing. Like being in the competition next season if you don't do well domestically.

Why does no one say this about the europa league spots then? What about schalke last season, were they not good enough to get into the europa league? Or does marseille not deserve to be there next season? Or did birmingham not deserve it?

Or even worse, how the **** did fulham get into the europa league last season, for being the 4th best team in terms of discipline? But fulham deserve a place in the europa league while chelsea don't deserve a place in the CL, at least we can win the bloody competition, fulham didn't win it, so why are they there?

[J.Star]

(Original post by Darth Vader 7)
I'd personally start with Chamakh and play Van Persie just behind him with Rosicky playing box to box midfielder. It's a massive risk but it worked last weekend. However, I doubt Wenger will start with both of them. Anyway, our biggest problem has been defending.

I would actually like to see that, but from Wenger's point of view it's a bit late in the season to start drastically changing tactics. Imagine the backlash there would be if we started with that line up and didn't win.

But your absolutely right, it's the defending that we need to focus on. I hope Wenger has been drilling it into Song/Verm that their main priority should be defending. Gibbs and whoever else plays the box to box midfield role (probably Ramsey) also need to focus primarily on possession and defending.

[Loat]

We'll play 4-3-3, Ramsey will start and LeCoq or Jenks will start at RB. Verm, Song and Gibbs will all bomb forward whenever and whether we win is really dependent on how often people bother to cover those things. I'm hopeful though, they know its an important game, right?

[jilebinator]

If the team go into this match without any passion or drive I will personally go and slap them.

[Darth Vader 7]

(Original post by jam277)
x

Your argument isn't regarding the rules. I know the rules and nothing we can do will change it. However, you believe that teams can do utter ****e in the league and still deserve to be in the CL next season providing they win it. Like I said, the league is what football is based upon. It is the yard stick that we measure the quality of a football team.

Stop making up your own arguments. I never mentioned that team's goal should solely be making top 4. However, that should be the basis of a successful season. Winning the CL should be appealing enough to any team. Not automatic passage to it next season

I'm not talking about the Europa league. I haven't expressed any sort of content at a team gaining safe passage to the EL via cups. I believe that should be determined by the league as well.

[jam277]

(Original post by Darth Vader 7)
Your argument isn't regarding the rules. I know the rules and nothing we can do will change it. However, you believe that teams can do utter ****e in the league and still deserve to be in the CL next season providing they win it. Like I said, the league is what football is based upon. It is the yard stick that we measure the quality of a football team.

Stop making up your own arguments. I never mentioned that team's goal should solely be making top 4. However, that should be the basis of a successful season. Winning the CL should be appealing enough to any team. Not automatic passage to it next season

I'm not talking about the Europa league. I haven't expressed any sort of content at a team gaining safe passage to the EL via cups. I believe that should be determined by the league as well.

Ok, fair enough, I still disagree because I feel that takes away the value and the so called 'magic of the cups' factor that you don't get in the league. It devalues the FA and league cup, how many times have you seen a team put on their second string side in the FA and league cup. Heck united put on their reserve team against crystal palace and chelsea used a couple of reserve/youth players against liverpool but would never do that in a league match.

I like cups, I think the atmosphere is much better when the match is something to play for, in the knockout rounds of a cup, every match is important, but people will treat it as a dead rubber if it was the league position was what counted. Take for example west ham or blackburn, west ham got knocked out by lower league opposition in the FA cup and the League cup to sort out their league form this season, kean basically admitted that he bottled the match vs cardiff so he could focus on the relegation battle. I want to see quality football every match with players being determined to win.

It's like when chelsea won the FA cup, I wasn't even happy. It felt like the carling cup to me, the rewards of winning the cup wasn't that great compared to winning the CL or the PL which I think should change. But for a club like fulham who want to be in the europa league, it would be a great acheivement, they bag a trophy and are in europe to boot.

[jilebinator]

Got some good news.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...pGnPe0.twitter

[TotalLifeForever]

(Original post by jilebinator)
Got some good news.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...pGnPe0.twitter

Beautiful read, loved the stories about RVP's granddad!

[implus]

RVP's column in the Sun.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...medium=twitter