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The Arsenal Thread XII

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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I saw the paper rumours but I never saw a bid or a manger's comment on him. That why I said they weren't in for him. I just had a look and I still can't find anything other than the rumour mill.
    Giroud even said he doubts di matteo knew who he was. Chelsea wouldn't have gone for him.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Giroud even said he doubts di matteo knew who he was. Chelsea wouldn't have gone for him.
    Didn't he say he turned down Chelsea because he doubted Di Matteo knew who he was? And I'm sure he meant that in a figurative sense. :p:
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    Some big news hot off the press: Van Persie has apparently set his heart on a move to Juventus (Mirror)

    A BIG relief to know he isn't joining another Prem club.
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    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    Didn't he say he turned down Chelsea because he doubted Di Matteo knew who he was? And I'm sure he meant that in a figurative sense. :p:
    I heard it was because Di Matteo never got in contact with him personally..
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    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    Didn't he say he turned down Chelsea because he doubted Di Matteo knew who he was? And I'm sure he meant that in a figurative sense. :p:
    I don't even think he would have been in our plans as a first team player, not to say he's a bad player, but since abramovich is insistent in us playing torres and getting him back to form, I think we'd just use sturridge as backup striker to torres. Di matteo chooses the team sheet anyway, remember yuri zhirkov, signed during hiddink days, manager changes and he's never used. Same thing would have happened here. Despite him possibly being a better alternative to torres, like zhirkov is to malouda.
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    I'm hearing news of Jovetic.
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    If he goes to Juve seeing him and Pirlo linking up would be beautiful :pierre:
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    I don't believe RVP when he goes on about you lot having no ambition and the investment etc. I mean you've already bought Giroud and Podolski and it's been what 6 days into the transfer window...
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    (Original post by jam277)
    I don't even think he would have been in our plans as a first team player, not to say he's a bad player, but since abramovich is insistent in us playing torres and getting him back to form, I think we'd just use sturridge as backup striker to torres. Di matteo chooses the team sheet anyway, remember yuri zhirkov, signed during hiddink days, manager changes and he's never used. Same thing would have happened here. Despite him possibly being a better alternative to torres, like zhirkov is to malouda.
    Oh I agree with that, and am not convinced he's in our first-team plans either - I think both teams (and the others that were apparently in for him - most prominently Bayern and Newcastle, if rumours are to be believed) saw him as a solid backup/rotational option.

    (Original post by mhsc)
    If he goes to Juve seeing him and Pirlo linking up would be beautiful :pierre:
    :coma: The same kind of relationship would probably extend to Vidal.

    (Original post by Kruz)
    I'm hearing news of Jovetic.
    I've seen rumours as well, but they're only that - rumours - and not in the most reliable sources either, so I'm forcing myself not to get excited.

    (Young but he'd be the perfect type of player to step into the van Persie role shut up it isn't happening 20 million blah blah blah :ninja:)
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    (Original post by TM94)
    I don't believe RVP when he goes on about you lot having no ambition and the investment etc. I mean you've already bought Giroud and Podolski and it's been what 6 days into the transfer window...
    Well, once again I think it has to do with how far along in his own career van Persie is. If you look at some of the players who have made up the core of our current squad - Arteta, Song, Sagna - they're all good players, but not regarded on their own as having the capability to make us a formidable team - not, to use an overused term, 'world class'. And as to the players who are thought to possibly have the potential to turn us into one - Wilshere, Chamberlain; arguably Ramsey, Szczesny, Coquelin, Miyaichi - that's still going to take a bit of time to come together, which may be what van Persie doesn't think he can afford. Giroud and Podolski both strengthen the squad - significantly, I'd like to think/hope - but they probably don't give it the level of immediate boost that van Persie wanted. Or that's my reading of the situation, anyway. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by 419)
    I can promise you that he has lowered his sale price. Sure his agent could have told clubs that but all they'll have are his words and you telling me agents are trustworthy. But with this statement we have LESS baragining tools. It like how Barca were able to get away with underpaying for Cesc, they knew he was theirs. If you don't think his statement was force the club to let him go, what exactly do you think it was meant to achieve? Update the fans? :rolleyes:

    How could you in anyway blame the club for a statement and say it isn't disrespectful? Again I ask you, what was the statement meant to achieve? It's extremely pointless and distateful.

    The 'Arsenal' way of doing things is to keep things inhouse as much as possible, it's a policy that been long part of the clubs tradition and I don't see the point of changing it to earn some cred points with 'fans' like Piers Morgan? They provided us with enough information up to now and I haven't heard much outcry over it until this statement was released.
    I think you are mistaken agents comments in the press, when they are trying to drum up interest and the when they are sitting down with clubs. There are only two things which give you leverage in keeping a player or getting the maximum fee, the players will and the contract length he is signed to. RVP is on a one year deal, you have very little time there to get a fee, clubs can approach in Jan. The other factor is RVP, whether or not he wants to stay at the club. This is obviously where we disagree, from where I am standing I can't see how you can look at a player who has let his deal run down to 1 year has stalled in contract talks, and say in all likelihood here is a player that isn't looking to leave. I can see one shred of evidence or even suggestion he was going to stay, whereas letting a deal run down and leaving talks for a new one point towards the opposite. If he was simply quibbling over wages it would be different, but he's just not looking at signing a deal with the club. Cesc and Barca are a good example of where the power in having a long deal lies, getting £35m for a player who wanted to leave and only had one destination was purely because of the length of his deal. Could you point to this leverage you have on the player?

    I'm not blaming the club as such, I just doubt this is some kind of shock. I think this is really only news to the public, people in Arsenal or around RVP would have known. I think its a negative thing to happen, but I think its one they allowed.

    I understand the policy of doing things in house, United hardly ever discuss these things. But situations like this, like Nasri and Cesc, like Flamini make the club look like mugs. It makes it look like they have no idea what is going on with their players. I don't think that is the case, I think there were aware, but not releasing a statement first or ensuring RVP didn't is poor management.
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    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    Well, once again I think it has to do with how far along in his own career van Persie is. If you look at some of the players who have made up the core of our current squad - Arteta, Song, Sagna - they're all good players, but not regarded on their own as having the capability to make us a formidable team - not, to use an overused term, 'world class'. And as to the players who are thought to possibly have the potential to turn us into one - Wilshere, Chamberlain; arguably Ramsey, Szczesny, Coquelin, Miyaichi - that's still going to take a bit of time to come together, which may be what van Persie doesn't think he can afford. Giroud and Podolski both strengthen the squad - significantly, I'd like to think/hope - but they probably don't give it the level of immediate boost that van Persie wanted. Or that's my reading of the situation, anyway. :dontknow:
    Van Persie will look at Giroud, and see a footballer who was playing in Ligue 2 not that long ago. He'll then look at Chamakh who moved from the same league, and has done little to nothing for the past 18 months. He'll look at Podolski and see a player who didn't cut it at Bayern, and who captained his team to relegation. Look at the signing of Park last season, another who was relegated with his team. RVP sees this chap every day, what is he supposed to think? 'Great, he brings in money from Asia', but ultimately that won't help win the trophies he desires.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    You think olivier giroud is being loyal to montpellier by joining arsenal, you think he's getting less wages here than he is in france? It's ok to take their priced assets, but it's not ok for another club to take yours because it shows unloyalty, hypocrisy don't you think?
    That's what I said to Zurich in our thread. I have no idea how much Giroud was on at Montpellier or his contract at Arsenal, but with the financial strength of the Premier League, as demonstrated by the huge £3bn bumper deal recently, it's quite likely that he's got a significant pay rise after tax. I guess he was getting a lot of game time at Montpellier too and silverware are may be equal chances at both clubs in the short term? Montpellier is a wonderful city and I know I'd be never leave there if I wasn't get anything significant advantage from moving away.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKksM...layer_embedded

    LOOOOL!!! Gotta love this guy.
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    I'mlooking forward to seeing if RvP can actually score without Walcott or Song setting him up.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I'm not blaming the club as such, I just doubt this is some kind of shock. I think this is really only news to the public, people in Arsenal or around RVP would have known. I think its a negative thing to happen, but I think its one they allowed.

    I understand the policy of doing things in house, United hardly ever discuss these things. But situations like this, like Nasri and Cesc, like Flamini make the club look like mugs. It makes it look like they have no idea what is going on with their players. I don't think that is the case, I think there were aware, but not releasing a statement first or ensuring RVP didn't is poor management.
    Not a shock, perhaps, but I think we'd be forgiven for thinking it wasn't that obvious. For one, there was the constant buzz about van Persie's affection for Arsenal and London; more pertinently, there were the reports about how van Persie would probably consider staying if we reinforced enough. Now, maybe on the back of our late surge in the season, we thought Podolski and Giroud (and the prospects of more) would represent such reinforcement; now it is emerging that van Persie doesn't think so. But what if instead of Podolski and Giroud, we'd gone and signed Neymar and Cavani? My point is that I don't think van Persie necessarily had his heart set on leaving Arsenal well before this transfer window started - though he was probably thinking about it more seriously than we might have imagined.

    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Van Persie will look at Giroud, and see a footballer who was playing in Ligue 2 not that long ago. He'll then look at Chamakh who moved from the same league, and has done little to nothing for the past 18 months. He'll look at Podolski and see a player who didn't cut it at Bayern, and who captained his team to relegation. Look at the signing of Park last season, another who was relegated with his team. RVP sees this chap every day, what is he supposed to think? 'Great, he brings in money from Asia', but ultimately that won't help win the trophies he desires.
    Yes, I agree with this. Which is not to say that I don't think Giroud and Podolski could be very good players for us, or even that Chamakh has no chance of stepping up again and making a decent contribution this season.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    That's what I said to Zurich in our thread. I have no idea how much Giroud was on at Montpellier or his contract at Arsenal, but with the financial strength of the Premier League, as demonstrated by the huge £3bn bumper deal recently, it's quite likely that he's got a significant pay rise after tax. I guess he was getting a lot of game time at Montpellier too and silverware are may be equal chances at both clubs in the short term? Montpellier is a wonderful city and I know I'd be never leave there if I wasn't get anything significant advantage from moving away.
    Exactly, that's why I don't get this van persie hate, do you think that lille complain about eden hazard, he got a send off when he left. Van persie was obviously going to leave so I doubt that was a shock anyway.

    Oh well, I guess that's how it's like, if you keep faith in players but don't give them the monetary advantages they would get in other teams and can't guarantee them trophies, this is what will happen. Were it not for our CL win, we wouldn't have got eden hazard for example(wanted CL football and to go to somewhere where he'll get trophies and high wages).

    If arsenal had won the prem or the CL or at least challenged for it like united did, I doubt van persie would have left or challenged the ambition of the club as he would have thought that they came close and then stick at it or leave peacefully for a new challenge, but they were nowhere near challenging for a trophy at any front besides the league cup and played catchup in the league from october till the end of the season.
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    If he wants trophies and doesn't care about money, he could go Celtic!!
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    He'll look at Podolski and see a player who didn't cut it at Bayern, and who captained his team to relegation.
    That's a little harsh, its a team effort.

    Same thing could be said about Messi and Argentina. If you understand what I mean...
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    (Original post by Abiraleft)
    Not a shock, perhaps, but I think we'd be forgiven for thinking it wasn't that obvious. For one, there was the constant buzz about van Persie's affection for Arsenal and London; more pertinently, there were the reports about how van Persie would probably consider staying if we reinforced enough. Now, maybe on the back of our late surge in the season, we thought Podolski and Giroud (and the prospects of more) would represent such reinforcement; now it is emerging that van Persie doesn't think so. But what if instead of Podolski and Giroud, we'd gone and signed Neymar and Cavani? My point is that I don't think van Persie necessarily had his heart set on leaving Arsenal well before this transfer window started - though he was probably thinking about it more seriously than we might have imagined.
    I would agree with that, however that would be a pretty huge departure from the way the club has been run of late, and as I said inside the club I'm pretty sure Wenger and co knew there wasn't going to be that kind of change in policy. I think RVP would have needed players of a similar stature arriving to convince him. I did say for a long time, he was doing a Nasri. A stand off with the club, you make you move and depending how I see that I'll make mine. But the default position being him not committing.
Updated: August 9, 2012
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