[TheGrinningSkull]

(Original post by Sheep)
ever think maybe it's you, not the haters that are un-informed, maybe you should go read more about muslim values/beliefs and some particular Qu'ran passages

read about a lot of the things it teaches, they even still teach that water and salt can not be mixed in one of the top muslim-only private schools in Britain because apparently it says so in the Qu'ran

not to mention a lot of muslims reject evolution so much so that it is banned in some countries. Soo as you can see it is quite detrimental to science too among all the other things

lol, there's uninformed, and then there's missing stuff out.

I'd like to see you show me the verse where this exact claim you make is said.

[Maxima]

I am so glad that a lot of people have enough sense to not share the views of a lot of people on here.

Being a Muslim myself, the majority of my friends are White Christian or Atheist, who are more than happy to ask me anything about my religion, and no, I don't slit their throat, stone them, bomb them or whatever else you guys think we're gonna do. In fact, I love having debates with my Atheist friend, and I don't get offended.

A lot of people on here like to point out minority incidents. Surely we can't let minority incidents account for the millions of people who live in harmony with people of all religion.

As to the guy who posted 100% of Muslims said they think Homosexuality should be outlawed, where the **** was this survey carried out, by home, how many people did they ask? I have a couple of friends who are gay and I don't have any problem with them lol. I really don't know why people fear Islam, the whole of the UK and the Western world isn't going to be engulfed by this Black Hole of tyranny and barbarism. I go to a Catholic College, went to a Church of England school, and here there were many Muslims present and it's fair to say everyone was happy with each other. Most Muslims are happy to live in harmony and peace with other people, it's just when you people trying to cause conflict and stir up trouble that all this hatred back and forth happens.

[Coke1]

I am an athiest, and have a few Muslim friends. What are they like? Normal people.

However, Islam is scrutinised due to the fact that it has the most extreme views of any religion, and the fact that in Islamic countries people are executed for adultry etc.

The religion in itself is not peaceful, but then again, if Christianity was taken literally, it isn't peaceful. I understand that not all Muslims are how the media portrays; however, a lot of the conflict in the world is over an extreme view of Islam.

[Maxima]

Well put.

Personally I just think it's another media scapegoat. Yesterday it was Communism, today it is Islam and tomorrow it will be the Jedi Religion with whom the force is. Government's will do anything to make sure their actions are justified. If it means scrutinizing an entire religion making all of them out to be extremists, so be it.

[mariachi]

(Original post by Maxima)
I am so glad that a lot of people have enough sense to not share the views of a lot of people on here.

Being a Muslim myself, the majority of my friends are White Christian or Atheist, who are more than happy to ask me anything about my religion, and no, I don't slit their throat, stone them, bomb them or whatever else you guys think we're gonna do. In fact, I love having debates with my Atheist friend, and I don't get offended.

A lot of people on here like to point out minority incidents. Surely we can't let minority incidents account for the millions of people who live in harmony with people of all religion.

As to the guy who posted 100% of Muslims said they think Homosexuality should be outlawed, where the **** was this survey carried out, by home, how many people did they ask? I have a couple of friends who are gay and I don't have any problem with them lol. I really don't know why people fear Islam, the whole of the UK and the Western world isn't going to be engulfed by this Black Hole of tyranny and barbarism. I go to a Catholic College, went to a Church of England school, and here there were many Muslims present and it's fair to say everyone was happy with each other. Most Muslims are happy to live in harmony and peace with other people, it's just when you people trying to cause conflict and stir up trouble that all this hatred back and forth happens.

go to the most popular UK muslim discussion forum (www.ummah.com) and read what many Muslims think . Of non-Muslims, of democracy, of secular societies, of relations between men and women and so on....

not really very encouraging... harmony and peace ?

[mariachi]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Arrogance. Let me guess, typical Atheist.

Hi Pers
well, this is short, to the point

no pages and pages of second-hand copy-pastes and quotes mined by some dawah site from 45 different books...

it's still offensive and nonsensical, but a huge improvement

Typical Perseverance... by the way, how's life on the run ?

Best

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by mariachi)
Hi Pers
well, this is short, to the point

no pages and pages of second-hand copy-pastes and quotes mined by some dawah site from 45 different books...

it's still offensive and nonsensical, but a huge improvement

Typical Perseverance... by the way, how's life on the run ?

Best

You mean exams, it's going good.

And how's your favourite joke of an academia info pools like answering-islam, ibn warraq sites going?

[ummdhibun]

(Original post by slacker07906)
Honestly, it is quite scary to think that in the 21st Century there is still so much hate for Islam on 'The Student Room' (TSR) and in the world. I am a Christian, so your, "you're muslim, you would say that" argument is truly void.

Firstly, I would like to point out that this thread is not particularly directed at those after an healthy debate, however some people are just plain rude and disrespectful. Comments like "Islam is cruel", "Islam is evil" are just ridiculous and quite uneducated points to make.

To be frank, it is like some of you have been totally brain-washed by your parents, or even the media into thinking Islam is this cruel Religion with no redeeming qualities. Can I ask, do you have any muslim friends? If so, then what were they like? Did they seem cruel or evil?

If you have never met a muslim, then I can't see how you would form such frightening opinions without even having talked to a muslim, or even getting to know a muslim.

Also, can I ask why so many threads mocking and insulting a Religion are allowed to be made on TSR? Quite shocking.

THANK YOU!!
Its ridiculous what effect the media can have on you, but i can assure you that this thread will soon become an 'i hate Islam' thread also - they always do.

But thank you for giving us some sort of support even though you aren't a Muslim.
May Allah guide you and may He show you the Straight Path - Ameen

[mariachi]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
You mean exams, it's going good.

And how's your favourite joke of an academia info pools like answering-islam, ibn warraq sites going?

more or less like islamic-awareness, and your favourite dawah sites

can't see much of difference

[mariachi]

(Original post by ummdhibun)
THANK YOU!!
Its ridiculous what effect the media can have on you, but i can assure you that this thread will soon become an 'i hate Islam' thread also - they always do.

"I hate Islam" is an emotional statement

personally, I simply dislike it : I consider it backward and a negative influence on society

[hmon93]

I don't hate Islam any more than I hate most religions.

[ummdhibun]

(Original post by mariachi)
"I hate Islam" is an emotional statement

personally, I simply dislike it : I consider it backward and a negative influence on society

Thats fine. Its your own opinion - which everyone is entitled to

[Dux_Helvetica]

Every religion has done their bad deeds over history (some more than others) but of all major religions, Islam is currently one of the more backward ones that seems to foster more hatred than others. An Islam that is equivalent to how most Christians approach their faith is fine, but the fact of the matter is that most of Islam as it is practised does not correspond to this behaviour. Islam never underwent a process of Enlightenment that Protestantism, Reform Judaism and to a slightly lesser extent Catholicism went through.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
Every religion has done their bad deeds over history (some more than others) but of all major religions, Islam is currently one of the more backward ones that seems to foster more hatred than others. An Islam that is equivalent to how most Christians approach their faith is fine, but the fact of the matter is that most of Islam as it is practised does not correspond to this behaviour. Islam never underwent a process of Enlightenment that Protestantism, Reform Judaism and to a slightly lesser extent Catholicism went through.

What makes people's opinion of Islam seem backward? The fact is that the media always places like Afghanistan, etc as Islamic countries, however in reality they are, they are Muslim majority nations yes, but far from Islamic values, hence they can't be a true representative of what Islam is. You got to stop looking at the followers of a faith because they aren't perfect but the faith itself.
Nor will Islam go through this 'reform' because it would require a person to change a faith, it would no longer be considered a faith sent by God by it's followers, but another man made idea where people are allowed to pick and choose because they want to for their desires, it wouldn't be Islam anymore.

[Dux_Helvetica]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
What makes people's opinion of Islam seem backward? The fact is that the media always places like Afghanistan, etc as Islamic countries, however in reality they are, they are Muslim majority nations yes, but far from Islamic values, hence they can't be a true representative of what Islam is. You got to stop looking at the followers of a faith because they aren't perfect but the faith itself.
Nor will Islam go through this 'reform' because it would require a person to change a faith, it would no longer be considered a faith sent by God by it's followers, but another man made idea where people are allowed to pick and choose because they want to for their desires, it wouldn't be Islam anymore.

I want to first of all say that your suggestion to 'stop looking at the followers of a faith' is ridiculous. Religions are nothing without followers. The followers are representatives to the rest of the world of whatever religion they follow, whether they like it or not. Islam is judged by the actions of its followers because they are the representatives of the faith here on earth.

Why does Islam seem so backwards?

1) The extreme lack of tolerance towards apostates and the violent suppression of ideas in Islamic states.

2) The awful treatment of women. Whether it is polygamy where women are sexual objects, or whether they are obscured by sheets of fabric to hide their faces and bodies, or punished unjustly for adultery, Islam is undeniably repressive towards women.

3) The persecution and killing of homosexuals.

These are the most obvious examples.

Now, I know you say that these are only isolated examples which occur in countries that 'happen' to be Muslim. I am sick and tired of that kind of limp rhetoric. It is no coincidence that the few remaining countries that abuse human rights so brazenly are Muslim states, and to deny that is delusion.

I also know you are probably going to say that 'not all Muslims' are like this. This is true - but many, many are. These backwards views are not only rampant in Islamic countries too, but widespread in Europe as Muslims immigrate into the most civilised continent of the entire world.

As evidenced by your last paragraph, you are clearly hostile towards the idea that religion can change - and I thank you, because that's a better example than anything else that Islam is backwards and uncivilised. Muhammed was a paedophilic, bloodthirsty warlord and Muslims continue to look to his word and his 7th century morality as truth.

The oddest thing is, for defending these liberal ideas that Islam seems to go against, I get labelled as an extreme conservative. All the while, so-called 'liberals' cozy up to Muslims. It's a crazy world we inhabit.

[GrowingNinja]

(Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
I want to first of all say that your suggestion to 'stop looking at the followers of a faith' is ridiculous. Religions are nothing without followers. The followers are representatives to the rest of the world of whatever religion they follow, whether they like it or not. Islam is judged by the actions of its followers because they are the representatives of the faith here on earth.

Why does Islam seem so backwards?

1) The extreme lack of tolerance towards apostates and the violent suppression of ideas in Islamic states.

2) The awful treatment of women. Whether it is polygamy where women are sexual objects, or whether they are obscured by sheets of fabric to hide their faces and bodies, or punished unjustly for adultery, Islam is undeniably repressive towards women.

3) The persecution and killing of homosexuals.

These are the most obvious examples.

Now, I know you say that these are only isolated examples which occur in countries that 'happen' to be Muslim. I am sick and tired of that kind of limp rhetoric. It is no coincidence that the few remaining countries that abuse human rights so brazenly are Muslim states, and to deny that is delusion.

I also know you are probably going to say that 'not all Muslims' are like this. This is true - but many, many are. These backwards views are not only rampant in Islamic countries too, but widespread in Europe as Muslims immigrate into the most civilised continent of the entire world.

As evidenced by your last paragraph, you are clearly hostile towards the idea that religion can change - and I thank you, because that's a better example than anything else that Islam is backwards and uncivilised. Muhammed was a paedophilic, bloodthirsty warlord and Muslims continue to look to his word and his 7th century morality as truth.

The oddest thing is, for defending these liberal ideas that Islam seems to go against, I get labelled as an extreme conservative. All the while, s0called 'liberals' cozy up to Muslims. It's a crazy world we inhabit.

Please please tell me where your getting your information from. In our religion we are taught to treat woman justly and with the utmost respect.

"O You who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness," An-Nisa 4:19

"All people are equal, as equal as the teeth of a comb. There is no claim of merit of an Arab over a non-Arab, or of white over a black person, or of a male over a female. Only God-fearing people merit a preference with God." Hadith

If a muslim man treats his wife badly, that is due to his own morals and thoughts and does not reflect the views of Islam. Is it fair to say that Christianity is a paedophelic religion because some priests have decided to rape children on their own accord?

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by GrowingNinja)
Please please tell me where your getting your information from. In our religion we are taught to treat woman justly and with the utmost respect.

"O You who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness," An-Nisa 4:19

"All people are equal, as equal as the teeth of a comb. There is no claim of merit of an Arab over a non-Arab, or of white over a black person, or of a male over a female. Only God-fearing people merit a preference with God." Hadith

If a muslim man treats his wife badly, that is due to his own morals and thoughts and does not reflect the views of Islam. Is it fair to say that Christianity is a paedophelic religion because some priests have decided to rape children on their own accord?

I like how you have conveniently missed out that a testimony from a woman is worth half of that of a mans, women have to be obedient to men, and that the Prophet himself said that women were "deficient" in mind.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
I want to first of all say that your suggestion to 'stop looking at the followers of a faith' is ridiculous. Religions are nothing without followers. The followers are representatives to the rest of the world of whatever religion they follow, whether they like it or not. Islam is judged by the actions of its followers because they are the representatives of the faith here on earth.

Why does Islam seem so backwards?

1) The extreme lack of tolerance towards apostates and the violent suppression of ideas in Islamic states.

2) The awful treatment of women. Whether it is polygamy where women are sexual objects, or whether they are obscured by sheets of fabric to hide their faces and bodies, or punished unjustly for adultery, Islam is undeniably repressive towards women.

3) The persecution and killing of homosexuals.

These are the most obvious examples.

Now, I know you say that these are only isolated examples which occur in countries that 'happen' to be Muslim. I am sick and tired of that kind of limp rhetoric. It is no coincidence that the few remaining countries that abuse human rights so brazenly are Muslim states, and to deny that is delusion.

I also know you are probably going to say that 'not all Muslims' are like this. This is true - but many, many are. These backwards views are not only rampant in Islamic countries too, but widespread in Europe as Muslims immigrate into the most civilised continent of the entire world.

As evidenced by your last paragraph, you are clearly hostile towards the idea that religion can change - and I thank you, because that's a better example than anything else that Islam is backwards and uncivilised. Muhammed was a paedophilic, bloodthirsty warlord and Muslims continue to look to his word and his 7th century morality as truth.

The oddest thing is, for defending these liberal ideas that Islam seems to go against, I get labelled as an extreme conservative. All the while, so-called 'liberals' cozy up to Muslims. It's a crazy world we inhabit.

So what happens when some followers act outside of their faith....seems very very unfair to the faith because no person in this world is perfect or can follow a faith by the letter.

1. If you look, no state in this world is an Islamic state, it would infer that they have a Caliphate whom is elected and would follow Islam by the book and would have no influence of anything else and would follow by the example set by the Prophet which none do....as originally people of all backgrounds lived in harmony.

2.Again you are just looking at cultural factors.........polygamy isn't encouraged, it's allowed with conditions which include the permission of the 1st wife, etc especially as female birth rates are higher. Women are asked to dress modestly as are men, if a women wishes to dress they like than it's upto them, they can't be forced into by Islam.....Adultery punishment is applied to both men and women.

3. In Islam you aren't allowed to persecute whomever you may want at all and no where in the Qu'ran does it say that it's ok to kill them, as it's ultimately murder.

The far majority of Muslims are nothing like the very small minority, it's completely wrong and unjustified to base conclusions on this.

The idea that the Western world is the most civilised is an opinion, especially when you see the hidden torturing and hidden tactics of government agencies.

Their is a reason why.........anyone would be hostile to change their beliefs so that it suits their own needs or someone else. It changes the faith, it would no longer what it is in the first place, it's common sense.

You just chat utter non-sense.

[Dux_Helvetica]

(Original post by GrowingNinja)
Please please tell me where your getting your information from. In our religion we are taught to treat woman justly and with the utmost respect.

"O You who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness," An-Nisa 4:19

"All people are equal, as equal as the teeth of a comb. There is no claim of merit of an Arab over a non-Arab, or of white over a black person, or of a male over a female. Only God-fearing people merit a preference with God." Hadith

If a muslim man treats his wife badly, that is due to his own morals and thoughts and does not reflect the views of Islam. Is it fair to say that Christianity is a paedophelic religion because some priests have decided to rape children on their own accord?

Sura 2

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like.
--

Sura 2

Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status.
--

Sura 4

The share of the male [inheritance] shall be twice that of a female.
--

Sura 4

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war].
--

Sura 4

If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.
--

And the grand finale -

Sura 65:1

O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden.
----

Too easy.

(The end numbers of the suras do not appear correctly because they involve a colon, then a number, then a colon.)

[mariachi]

(Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
Muhammed was a paedophilic, bloodthirsty warlord

hey, come on now

nobody's perfect