The Student Room Group

One week to go - Tories on 8% lead - London Mayor 2012 POLL

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This must be the only time Boris and Ken have swapped colours on a poll. It's a novelty seeing blue next to Red Ken.
Reply 21
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Well, I'm listening. Convince me.


Unfortunately I'm not very good at convincing people - You should maybe listen to Jenny Jones talk. I wil have a go though.

The green policies are centred on socialism, localism and sustainability. This city badly needs socialism right now. Common ownership giving people (priviledged and underpriviledged alike) a stake in society and their community. We need to become more conscientious citizens - less pollution, less waste, less hostility, less greed.

As for the socialist aspect, I am really fed up of people saying 'but it will increase spending'. Why will it? Effectively we won't need to spend any more. We just need to look at things differently and view the world through the eyes of society and community rather than an individual.

Here are the Green policies:

1. CUT FARES AND REDUCE TRAFFIC
We will ensure public transport is always cheaper than driving. We will make suburban rail services more regular and reduce traffic congestion to clean up London’s polluted air.

2. IMPROVE GREEN SPACES AND THE ENVIRONMENT
We will complete a network of green spaces to give everyone access to nature. We will plant more street trees, restore flood plains and generate clean energy from food waste.

3. MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE
We will build genuinely affordable housing and refurbish a million homes to cut energy bills. We will push to give private tenants more security and stabilise rent levels.

4. REDUCE THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR
We will offer a job or apprenticeship to all young, unemployed Londoners and award a Fair Pay Mark to companies who reduce pay inequality amongst their employees

5. REBUILD TRUST IN POLICING
We will put more officers on the beat focused on important areas such as road safety, not unnecessary surveillance. We will rebuild trust in the police, especially amongst the young.
Reply 22
Original post by Captain Haddock
Already sent off my postal vote and voted Green across the board :smile:.


Go Green!
Original post by MTR_10
Unfortunately I'm not very good at convincing people - You should maybe listen to Jenny Jones talk. I wil have a go though.

The green policies are centred on socialism, localism and sustainability. This city badly needs socialism right now. Common ownership giving people (priviledged and underpriviledged alike) a stake in society and their community. We need to become more conscientious citizens - less pollution, less waste, less hostility, less greed.

As for the socialist aspect, I am really fed up of people saying 'but it will increase spending'. Why will it? Effectively we won't need to spend any more. We just need to look at things differently and view the world through the eyes of society and community rather than an individual.

Here are the Green policies:

1. CUT FARES AND REDUCE TRAFFIC
We will ensure public transport is always cheaper than driving. We will make suburban rail services more regular and reduce traffic congestion to clean up London’s polluted air.

2. IMPROVE GREEN SPACES AND THE ENVIRONMENT
We will complete a network of green spaces to give everyone access to nature. We will plant more street trees, restore flood plains and generate clean energy from food waste.

3. MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE
We will build genuinely affordable housing and refurbish a million homes to cut energy bills. We will push to give private tenants more security and stabilise rent levels.

4. REDUCE THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR
We will offer a job or apprenticeship to all young, unemployed Londoners and award a Fair Pay Mark to companies who reduce pay inequality amongst their employees

5. REBUILD TRUST IN POLICING
We will put more officers on the beat focused on important areas such as road safety, not unnecessary surveillance. We will rebuild trust in the police, especially amongst the young.


This is just a statement of their policies - what one must do if one wishes to convince people to vote for them is convince them that they are the right policies.

This post will appeal only to those who already believe that those are correct polices - people who would've voted that way regardless. It has no persuasive power.

That is in general the problem I have with the smaller parties. They state their policies fairly well, but do very little if anything to convince floating voters that they are the best policies.

For example, the statement that 'this city needs socialism' seems to be predicated on nothing. You might as well say 'this city needs spacehoppers'.

Why does London need socialism? How would socialism help London? Why should I as an ardent capitalist question my views?
You've missed out Tempa T

Reply 25
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Why would you want to reduce something that attempts to find weapons on London's streets?

If anything it needs to be increased substantially.


Because they are not effective, annoys the public, worsens relation between the police and the public particularly ethnic minorities and goes against the very basis of justice relating to privacy and liberty.

Less than 10% of stop and searches results in arrest and nearly all are for minor crimes. It is a waste of Police time and the public's time.
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Why would you want to reduce something that attempts to find weapons on London's streets?

If anything it needs to be increased substantially.


Here's my honest answer to this. It's because sometimes I carry illegal drugs on me and I don't want to get in trouble.


Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Can I ask why?

What specifc policies of theirs do you agree with?


These ones?

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies.html
Original post by Captain Haddock
Here's my honest answer to this. It's because sometimes I carry illegal drugs on me and I don't want to get in trouble.




These ones?

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies.html


Well, at least you're honest I suppose.
Original post by Band
Because they are not effective, annoys the public, worsens relation between the police and the public particularly ethnic minorities and goes against the very basis of justice relating to privacy and liberty.

Less than 10% of stop and searches results in arrest and nearly all are for minor crimes. It is a waste of Police time and the public's time.


I can't say I've ever been annoyed by it - but then again I've never been searched, despite spending most of my time in central London.
Original post by MTR_10
Unfortunately I'm not very good at convincing people - You should maybe listen to Jenny Jones talk. I wil have a go though.

The green policies are centred on socialism, localism and sustainability. This city badly needs socialism right now. Common ownership giving people (priviledged and underpriviledged alike) a stake in society and their community. We need to become more conscientious citizens - less pollution, less waste, less hostility, less greed.

As for the socialist aspect, I am really fed up of people saying 'but it will increase spending'. Why will it? Effectively we won't need to spend any more. We just need to look at things differently and view the world through the eyes of society and community rather than an individual.

Here are the Green policies:

1. CUT FARES AND REDUCE TRAFFIC
We will ensure public transport is always cheaper than driving. We will make suburban rail services more regular and reduce traffic congestion to clean up London’s polluted air.

2. IMPROVE GREEN SPACES AND THE ENVIRONMENT
We will complete a network of green spaces to give everyone access to nature. We will plant more street trees, restore flood plains and generate clean energy from food waste.

3. MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE
We will build genuinely affordable housing and refurbish a million homes to cut energy bills. We will push to give private tenants more security and stabilise rent levels.

4. REDUCE THE GAP BETWEEN RICH AND POOR
We will offer a job or apprenticeship to all young, unemployed Londoners and award a Fair Pay Mark to companies who reduce pay inequality amongst their employees

5. REBUILD TRUST IN POLICING
We will put more officers on the beat focused on important areas such as road safety, not unnecessary surveillance. We will rebuild trust in the police, especially amongst the young.


Question: Where will this money come from?
Reply 30
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
This is just a statement of their policies - what one must do if one wishes to convince people to vote for them is convince them that they are the right policies.

This post will appeal only to those who already believe that those are correct polices - people who would've voted that way regardless. It has no persuasive power.

That is in general the problem I have with the smaller parties. They state their policies fairly well, but do very little if anything to convince floating voters that they are the best policies.

For example, the statement that 'this city needs socialism' seems to be predicated on nothing. You might as well say 'this city needs spacehoppers'.

Why does London need socialism? How would socialism help London? Why should I as an ardent capitalist question my views?


I agree with having no persuasive power. Although, quite often 'convincing voters' can mean only one thing - misleading them. The lies politicians tell win them votes but do nothing for the general well being of the country. I think the Greens agenda is quite clear here. Granted it is not glamorous or 'convincing' as such though.

As for capitalism, it has given us a lot but has also taken a lot away (from society). Socialism must now replenish what has been taken and repair the damage which has been done. It would take a very committed optimist or a very sheltered individual to not realise there is something wrong with the current inequality we have in this city. Socialism will bring people back into their communities (shared public space, facilities etc) and repair social relations.

I think we may during this election see a rise in votes for parties outside of the mainstream. Especially considering the behaviour of the main two during these past few weeks.
Original post by MTR_10
I agree with having no persuasive power. Although, quite often 'convincing voters' can mean only one thing - misleading them. The lies politicians tell win them votes but do nothing for the general well being of the country. I think the Greens agenda is quite clear here. Granted it is not glamorous or 'convincing' as such though.

As for capitalism, it has given us a lot but has also taken a lot away (from society). Socialism must now replenish what has been taken and repair the damage which has been done. It would take a very committed optimist or a very sheltered individual to not realise there is something wrong with the current inequality we have in this city. Socialism will bring people back into their communities (shared public space, facilities etc) and repair social relations.

I think we may during this election see a rise in votes for parties outside of the mainstream. Especially considering the behaviour of the main two during these past few weeks.


I feel I must ask; what is inherently bad about inequality? People aren't equal; we don't have equal lifestyles or equal talents, equal abilities or equal skills. We don't put equal effort into things or pursue equal desires.

I like having the freedom to be who I want to be - I would think that most people did.

Why should the state tell me that I cannot be who I want to be if what I want to be is someone that spends a great deal of time educating myself and attempting to get into a job that pays well so that I might contribute to society, only to then be decried as inherently bad for having more money than someone else? To be taxed at a high rate to subsidise those that haven't put in as many years of their life in the library studying, working hard to get what I desire?
Reply 32
Im voting for Boris this year. He did a very good job for London in my opinion. Although travel fares kind of irk me..... I should soon be getting free London wide travel throughout the whole TFL network so it doesn't really bother me. I like his plans to cover Suburban Rail services into TFL.

Side note: Isn't it funny how the BNP pick a candidate from URUGUAY to represent them? BRITISH national party? or Big fat Numpty Party?
Reply 33
Original post by Mendeleev's Table
Question: Where will this money come from?


Why do we need more income? Why can't we use what we have more efficiently and effectively? Reduce individual bonuses and increase contribution towards society.

Travel - Convert the majority of central London and High streets etc to Shared Surfaces reducing traffic and polution. Not hard (or expensive) to do but very effective. Tax large corporations and chains and reduce tax to small independent stores. Rebalance the high stree to People, shops, cafes, business, transport.
Improve Green Spaces - Set up and encourage community groups
to maintain/ improve public spaces
Affordable Housing - Cap rents in each area to allow for a wide social mix. For example, allocate 20% of boroughs housing to council, 20% to affordable, 20% to medium income, and leave the rest for the market.
Inequality - Introduce a living wage. 100% tax on income over £250,000.
Reply 34
Original post by Agent Smirnoff
Im voting for Boris this year. He did a very good job for London in my opinion. Although travel fares kind of irk me..... I should soon be getting free London wide travel throughout the whole TFL network so it doesn't really bother me. I like his plans to cover Suburban Rail services into TFL.

Side note: Isn't it funny how the BNP pick a candidate from URUGUAY to represent them? BRITISH national party? or Big fat Numpty Party?


Typical selfish, greedy 'Boris supporter' attitude.
Reply 35
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
I feel I must ask; what is inherently bad about inequality? People aren't equal; we don't have equal lifestyles or equal talents, equal abilities or equal skills. We don't put equal effort into things or pursue equal desires.

I like having the freedom to be who I want to be - I would think that most people did.

Why should the state tell me that I cannot be who I want to be if what I want to be is someone that spends a great deal of time educating myself and attempting to get into a job that pays well so that I might contribute to society, only to then be decried as inherently bad for having more money than someone else? To be taxed at a high rate to subsidise those that haven't put in as many years of their life in the library studying, working hard to get what I desire?


Actually fundamentally people are equal when you think about it.

"I like having the freedom to be who I want to be" - Typical excuse for 'I believe I am above the rules and couldn't give a damn about anyone else or anything else than my own self gratification'.

Another typical attitude of a Boris supporter no doubt? Not taking responsibility but taking all the credit?

Besides, since when has having money been equal to being educated?

Let's reverse the question, why do you think you are better than everyone else and superior to society?
Original post by MTR_10
Why do we need more income? Why can't we use what we have more efficiently and effectively? Reduce individual bonuses and increase contribution towards society.

Travel - Convert the majority of central London and High streets etc to Shared Surfaces reducing traffic and polution. Not hard (or expensive) to do but very effective. Tax large corporations and chains and reduce tax to small independent stores. Rebalance the high stree to People, shops, cafes, business, transport.
Improve Green Spaces - Set up and encourage community groups
to maintain/ improve public spaces
Affordable Housing - Cap rents in each area to allow for a wide social mix. For example, allocate 20% of boroughs housing to council, 20% to affordable, 20% to medium income, and leave the rest for the market.
Inequality - Introduce a living wage. 100% tax on income over £250,000.


I was about to think you were being serious in thinking increasing taxes will solve everything then I read that last sentence :rofl:
Reply 37
Original post by MTR_10
Typical selfish, greedy 'Boris supporter' attitude.


No not really. More like typical Police Officer who receives London Travel Concessions "attitude" I'm guessing by your logic.... most , if not all, police officers are selfish , greedy "Boris Supporters"? :eyeball:
Original post by MTR_10
Actually fundamentally people are equal when you think about it.

"I like having the freedom to be who I want to be" - Typical excuse for 'I believe I am above the rules and couldn't give a damn about anyone else or anything else than my own self gratification'.

Another typical attitude of a Boris supporter no doubt? Not taking responsibility but taking all the credit?

Besides, since when has having money been equal to being educated?

Let's reverse the question, why do you think you are better than everyone else and superior to society?


When you answer my question, I shall answer yours.

I am perfectly willing to answer yours, but if you cannot answer mine it is because truly you know that you do not have a good enough belief in your own argument to post it.
Reply 39
Original post by Mendeleev's Table
I was about to think you were being serious in thinking increasing taxes will solve everything then I read that last sentence :rofl:

:laugh: LOL. I dunno what to say to be honest.

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