[green.tea]

(Original post by MrCarmady)
I'm not a big fan of boarding schools in general, but they don't in themselves stop the parents from giving their children love and affection, and those children would still have a better education and probably life overall than if they had stayed in the foster care system.

Yeah. Thats why I say relax some of the criteria to encourage it.

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by green.tea)
Because its *******s. Males choose male role models. You'd do well to stop resting your position on that.

A male will pick what it sees as someone it wants to be like as a role model, regardless of their sex. Shows how much you know about this. You should really learn more about role models.

It put the childs needs first while being as fair as is possible to couples.

You aren't putting any needs first. You are trying to stop loving and qualified families from adopting. Or put unnecessary qualifications on same sex couples. Children get role models from mainly outside the family and their parents. Also if you had read some of the sources I provided you would understand that same sex couples go out of their way to find good role models if they can't fulfill the role as needed.

Women make good male role models is a fact is it? Backed up by all those kids with victoria beckhams surname on their football shirts I take it?

Seeing as woman and man are gender roles, and those are subjective, yes a woman can teach a child to be a man. A woman could be just as good a role model as a man. Your argument is weak at best.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx

http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/ffp10b.pdf

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...109/2/339.full

Pleas actually read these. That is how debate works and its just common courtesy. Otherwise don't bother posting as you are just being willingly ignorant.

[green.tea]

(Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
same sex couples go out of their way to find good role models if they can't fulfill the role as needed.

Well, thats good and im sure a very very high proportion do that. Other aspects of good parenting are in the criteria and my position is that that should be too.

Im not reading pages and pages.

My view on boys picking male role models is based on my whole life experience of myself and others. I dont expect that to change your view, but its harder evidence to me and my way of thinking than any link you could post. Call me a moron all you want but id just like to point out that far more great influential thought is based on the personal observation and thought that you dismiss as ignorant and moronic than the particular mode of research that you hold in such high regard.

My observation on this issue is that male role models are required for healthy upbringing of males and the only tme anyone says otherwise is when accusations of homophobia are flying about.

[luckylilly]

Why not I've got 2 friends (they are sisters but not twins they have 3 year diffrence) who has got lesbion mums. one of my friends is perfectly srtait and the other is bi so I don't think that it will influence the child if he or she is raised by a couple of the same gender

[green.tea]

(Original post by luckylilly)
Why not I've got 2 friends (they are sisters but not twins they have 3 year diffrence) who has got lesbion mums. one of my friends is perfectly srtait and the other is bi so I don't think that it will influence the child if he or she is raised by a couple of the same gender

They have female role models. Im talkng about boys in that situation.

[luckylilly]

That's the thing they don't have a male romodole

[green.tea]

(Original post by luckylilly)
That's the thing they don't have a male romodole

Im not saying girls need one. Im saying that boys do.

[green.tea]

When an issue is so political as this the way I form intellectually honest opinions is to move into an area where the same rules apply but that isnt political and bring that data into the equation. I guess none of us really know if we know the truth. But just reading all one side just doesnt seem like the best way to do it. I might be wrong. All i know is i know nothing. Yay for thought. Im glad to have represented it in this thread.

[thesilvermagnolia]

(Original post by Mr.Zen)
I personally feel that they shouldn't. I have nothing against gay couples, however, raising a child and bringing it into that home situation will be severely detrimental to its happiness and life in general. Here are some of the reasons I can think of right now:

- Kids need masculine and feminine/father and mother role models in their life so that they have the parental figures that they need, and that are natural.

- The bullying they would receive would be so, so bad. And it wouldn't be normal bullying either - such as " you have a big nose hahahaha " either.

Yes, I know the aforementioned issues have been raised numerous amounts of times, however I do feel that they are valid in regards to the topic in question.

I see where you're coming from with the idea of masculine/feminine role models, but you've also mentioned 'parental figures', and these don't necessarily have to be parents. Lots of children look up to older cousins, aunties and uncles, perhaps a teacher at school or a sports coach or someone outside of the family home. I think that lots of children find it easier to open up to someone who is not their mother or father, because then they aren't so worried about a parental reaction. I think its equally as important to have role models away from the family home as it is to have them within.

[minimarshmallow]

(Original post by green.tea)
They have female role models. Im talkng about boys in that situation.

My male friend has two lesbian mothers. He turned out great and is about to start studying engineering at university...

Also, boys don't need a male parent as a role model. They don't even need regular face-to-face contact with a male role model. Was it you that said Ronnie O'Sullivan was a role model for you? Because I doubt he took you to play football...

[sclez1]

Seeing the results of this poll has restored my faith in humanity a little bit

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by green.tea)
Well, thats good and im sure a very very high proportion do that. Other aspects of good parenting are in the criteria and my position is that that should be too.

As long as it's applied universally fine. Though I still see no reason as to why that should be and apparently neither do the psychologists, sociologists, nor the government programs which you seem to hold in such high esteem. You should go and tell them that they are using the wrong standards because your observations show them to be inadequate.

Im not reading pages and pages.

My point exactly. You won't read anything contrary to what you believe. I posted a one page link much earlier that you ignored. As did NYU. You just can't accept anything unless it 'supports' your view.

My view on boys picking male role models is based on my whole life experience of myself and others. I dont expect that to change your view, but its harder evidence to me and my way of thinking than any link you could post. Call me a moron all you want but id just like to point out that far more great influential thought is based on the personal observation and thought that you dismiss as ignorant and moronic than the particular mode of research that you hold in such high regard.

Oh boy. We are back on your common sense, this is not evidence to back your position. As I've said many times 'common sense' is wrong. Tell how do you know that your observations and this perceived need are caused by lack of a male role model? Boys have both male and female role models. Just as girls have both male and female role models. Now I will say again that women can fulfill a male role model position. Seeing as no where has anything that you have shown or provided said that a boy needs male role model. You have shown that children need role models. Exclusive of gender. I'm sorry that I cant change your view, even though the overwhelming evidence says that you are wrong. but you can't be bothered to read anything.

Please explain the bolded part. Because I don't understand what influential thought you are talking about lol

My observation on this issue is that male role models are required for healthy upbringing of males and the only tme anyone says otherwise is when accusations of homophobia are flying about.

My observation is that its not necessary I know plenty of kids who grew up in single mother homes and turned out great, never got into trouble, knows how to treat people, did well in school, etc. Not to mention the idea that male role models are needed is brought up whenever parenting is discussed. Do you even enter debated about other parenting situations? Probably not so your experience in the subject is limited and therefore your statement above seems to be nonsensical. I will repeat. Whenever parenting is brought up so is the idea of male role models.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by green.tea)
My view on boys picking male role models is based on my whole life experience of myself and others. I dont expect that to change your view, but its harder evidence to me and my way of thinking than any link you could post. Call me a moron all you want but id just like to point out that far more great influential thought is based on the personal observation and thought that you dismiss as ignorant and moronic than the particular mode of research that you hold in such high regard.

Your view is based on your very limited personal experiences -- research, which has studied thousands of people with different experiences has found that your view is not supported -- and you cannot use your experiences to argue against the evidence because your experience has not been one such that it can refute the evidence.

Your anecdotal evidence is not 'harder evidence' than research, especially when the research shows that your anecdotal evidence is very limited in scope and is not 100% correct -- Which is to say that your anecdotal evidence states that you had some such experience X, but research shows that X is not the only acceptable model, some Y also works -- namely, that a role model need not come from within the immediate family or, in fact, that a male child can have two female parents and one of the parents can be the role model, as 'male role model' is only a gender role.

Finally, great influential thought is based upon evidence and research, not personal opinion. Newton didn't come up with the theory of gravity without having some sort of evidence for it -- the same is true for all of the sciences, social sciences and even the humanities.

[Coke1]

(Original post by NYU2012)
Your view is based on your very limited personal experiences -- research, which has studied thousands of people with different experiences has found that your view is not supported -- and you cannot use your experiences to argue against the evidence because your experience has not been one such that it can refute the evidence.

Your anecdotal evidence is not 'harder evidence' than research, especially when the research shows that your anecdotal evidence is very limited in scope and is not 100% correct -- Which is to say that your anecdotal evidence states that you had some such experience X, but research shows that X is not the only acceptable model, some Y also works -- namely, that a role model need not come from within the immediate family or, in fact, that a male child can have two female parents and one of the parents can be the role model, as 'male role model' is only a gender role.

Finally, great influential thought is based upon evidence and research, not personal opinion. Newton didn't come up with the theory of gravity without having some sort of evidence for it -- the same is true for all of the sciences, social sciences and even the humanities.

There is evidence that a male role model is vital in a childs life. For disclipline purposes, and once again you need the balance between the two.

Now, that male role model doesn't HAVE to be the father. Maybe an uncle? A grandad? Or whatever.

A child needs a role model of BOTH sexes, even if they are not the mother and father.

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Coke1)
There is evidence that a male role model is vital in a childs life. For disclipline purposes, and once again you need the balance between the two.

But it not necessarily in all cases. For example, it's never been found to be vital in a child's life which has two same-sex parents.

(Original post by Coke1)
Now, that male role model doesn't HAVE to be the father. Maybe an uncle? A grandad? Or whatever.

True

(Original post by Coke1)
A child needs a role model of BOTH sexes, even if they are not the mother and father.

Here's where you face a problem:

Male role model is a gender role, not a sex role. Gender roles can be filled by either sex.

The research on same-sex parenting has never found problems such as the child is lacking in any type of way -- they may very well not have a male role model because they look up to one or both of their female parents.

See, research has indicated that the environment needs to have loving, supportive, etc. not that any type of gender role model needs to be present either within or outside of the family unit.

Trying to apply gender role model research to something such as same-sex parenting doesn't work because, in this case, the study was not conducted on same-sex families.

[agoetcherian]

(Original post by Scienceisgood)
3. The typical "Without a role model of the same gender, they may become gay themselves"

This is a ridiculous view. Not only is it wrong, but why is homosexuality something we should be discouraging?

[Mrx123]

Of course, why not??

[ohirome]

Being gay and adopted, I'm clearly all for this. Children should be given loving homes regardless of the parents orientation. Anyone who suggests a life in care or foster homes is better than a life with gay parents really needs to get a reality check. Having been through that system myself, its really not something I would recommend for anyone.

The days of 'needing male role models' are over. This isn't the 1940s.

[Holz888]

Yes! I actually find that apart from a few jokes, being gay is no problem (not gay myself, but know people who, right from year 9 were out and proud and people respected it). Having two loving parents is so much better than being in foster care throughout their life, or with parents who can't even look after themselves

[almalibre11111]

of course