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Should gay people be allowed to adopt?

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  • View Poll Results: Should gay/lesbian couples be allowed to adopt?
    Yes
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    No
    169
    21.98%

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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Arguments from bullying have already been discussed.

    Not every child will be bullied, so why ban all same-sex adoptions?

    Even if the child is bullied, research has found that, in the large majority of cases, it has not led to any long-term psychological problems -- in fact, research shows that children of same-sex family homes are just as well off as children of heterosexual family homes. In fact, in a statement by the APA, it was stated that social ostracization is, for the most part, a misinformed rumor.
    Well then there we go. It's just my own personal worry, and not my choice in the end. If a gay couple chooses to adopt I'd be more than happy to support them.
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    (Original post by Frey)
    I just think it's something that has to be seriously kept in mind, but I'm all for offering support if that's what you want to do.
    I'm not saying that you don't want to offer support. But your reasoning is flawed. As anyone with 'nerdy' parents, or 'embarrassing' parents, or red-headed parents, or any other number of kinds of parents have the potential to get bullied in school. But that doesn't make them unfit parents nor does it mean the child wouldn't be well off with them. It means society has some issues and those need to be addressed.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    And yet I know a guy who has two mums who hasn't ever been bulled for it, so ruling out gay parents because of a possibility is not a good strategy.
    Are you also opposed to gingers adopting? Fat people adopting? People who don't wear designed clothes adopting? All of these are reasons people can get bullied, and in your own words (and I know what you mean even if it's phrased badly) would be 'asking for it'.
    But homosexuality, unfortunately, is a serious social no for a lot of people in Britain still, you can't put it in the same league as what you've just listed.

    I know it's not a good strategy, and I do wish for gay couples to adopt and for people to be happy with it. But, if it wasn't such a problem, this thread wouldn't be here in the first place. I'm not denying that they make great parents (which I know they do) and claiming that every child would get bullied; there are lots of great stats, but unfortunately, in Britain, it's still a fairly ugly social norm not to see it as acceptable, and this does have it's adverse consequences on the children in question.
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    Durham law guy again!!!

    (Original post by NYU2012)
    In case you missed it, we have told you what your 'evidence' isn't actually evidence -- and we've told you a hundred times by now.

    You've presented evidence which has not studied same-sex family homes. All of the studies that have been conducted on same-sex family homes have found that the children of same-sex parents are just as well of as the children of heterosexual parent homes.

    What part of this do you not understand? The research which has actually studied same-sex family homes has found that your 'evidence' does not apply.
    What logical reason is there that another mother solves the lack of father?

    ..... This was the worst response ever. Did you even consider what was being asked? Just because a heterosexual adopts doesn't mean that a role model will be present. He asked why shouldn't heterosexual couples also have to prove that they can and will provide a role model?
    Both parents being present for reasonable time should apply to everyone. Extra people are only required when on gender is missing.

    Of course, this entire discussion on role models is completely irrelevant so I have no idea why you continually bring it up -- same-sex family research has never found that a child in a same-sex family home is in any way worse off than their heterosexual counterparts. This includes, but is not limited to, the child having everything a child needs (which includes your insistence on a role model). What part of this do you not understand?
    I trust the research without political motivation over yours as it is combined with my own experience and conventional wisdom. Your increasingly shrill protestations over its supposed irrelevance arent backed up by any sort of rationale.
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    (Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
    I'm not saying that you don't want to offer support. But your reasoning is flawed. As anyone with 'nerdy' parents, or 'embarrassing' parents, or red-headed parents, or any other number of kinds of parents have the potential to get bullied in school. But that doesn't make them unfit parents nor does it mean the child wouldn't be well off with them. It means society has some issues and those need to be addressed.
    see my reply to minimarshmallow.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    What logical reason is there that another mother solves the lack of father?
    *yawn* the role model doesn't need to be a parent. How many times?

    Both parents being present for reasonable time should apply to everyone. Extra people are only required when on gender is missing.
    So only straight couples where neither parent works should be allowed to adopt?

    I trust the research without political motivation over yours as it is combined with my own experience and conventional wisdom. Your increasingly shrill protestations over its supposed irrelevance arent backed up by any sort of rationale.
    Psychological research is done out of interest, usually by universities. Sure, it might have to be something that is politically relevant in order to get funding for a larger study - but my research is not being funded by anyone and it's still getting done. But it doesn't matter where the funding is from, the results will be the results, whether it is what the politicians or the companies providing the funding want to hear or not.

    And research about single-parent families is not relevant to same-sex families, because they're not the same. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that?
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    What logical reason is there that another mother solves the lack of father?
    What logical reason couldn't another mother solve that? Not to mention that why it is the way it is, doesn't matter. The fact is homosexual couple's who are parents raise kids that turn out just as well as heterosexual couple's who raise kids. End of discussion. Can you show otherwise? No? Then there is no reason for them not to be able to adopt.


    Both parents being present for reasonable time should apply to everyone. Extra people are only required when on gender is missing.
    That's blatantly not true. Just because a father is present doesn't mean that he will be used as a role-model nor does it mean he will be a good role-model. But again this is irrelevant because nothing says you need two parents of opposite genders.

    I trust the research without political motivation over yours as it is combined with my own experience and conventional wisdom. Your increasingly shrill protestations over its supposed irrelevance arent backed up by any sort of rationale.
    And which research is that? The research that the government used and The Prince's Trust, which allow for homosexuals to adopt? What research supports your own biases? Not to mention I have shown you how your common sense is wrong. Also your own experience as you described it proves our point. You didn't have a father, yet here you are perfectly functional and for all intents and purposes a 'normal' and well adjusted person. You are a perfect example of why a father is not needed
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    (Original post by Frey)
    But homosexuality, unfortunately, is a serious social no for a lot of people in Britain still, you can't put it in the same league as what you've just listed.

    I know it's not a good strategy, and I do wish for gay couples to adopt and for people to be happy with it. But, if it wasn't such a problem, this thread wouldn't be here in the first place. I'm not denying that they make great parents (which I know they do) and claiming that every child would get bullied; there are lots of great stats, but unfortunately, in Britain, it's still a fairly ugly social norm not to see it as acceptable, and this does have it's adverse consequences on the children in question.
    For starters, I just want to point out that I am not trying to be obstinate or arguable, and I appreciate that you support homosexual's rights to adopt. However on your points, there are also plenty of stereotypes for some of the qualities that both mini and I suggested. And kids are very commonly bullied for them. The point is that just because a child may get bullied isn't a reason to deny them an otherwise good home.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Durham law guy again!!!



    What logical reason is there that another mother solves the lack of father?



    Both parents being present for reasonable time should apply to everyone. Extra people are only required when on gender is missing.



    I trust the research without political motivation over yours as it is combined with my own experience and conventional wisdom. Your increasingly shrill protestations over its supposed irrelevance arent backed up by any sort of rationale.
    This is really simple: If you're incapable of understanding basic logic and gender theory, you have no business on this thread -- because so far, you've merely managed to drive those of us who are actually educated insane with your complete and total ignorance. If you're not willing to educate yourself, then stop posting.

    (1) A mother and a father are gender roles -- meaning that a person of either sex and fill these roles. Please do some basic research on what gender and gender roles actually are, because so far you've managed to demonstrate that you know literally nothing about them.

    (2) Nowhere has it stated that a role model needs to be a parent -- even in the links you've provided it merely states a 'father-like' figure. A father-like figure (a) doesn't need to be a parent and (b) is a gender role, which means refer back to point (1).

    (3) .... Your research is literally meaningless, and the fact that you cannot understand that merely attests to the fact that you cannot understand very basic logic and know absolutely nothing about psychological research standards. (a) the research you've presented was not conducted on same-sex families, which means you cannot apply it to same-sex families. I don't take research on gravity and apply it to how hydrogen bonds exist, do I? No, because they aren't related. (b) You've presented a measly amount of research, which at this point in time, has never supported your claims (it supports us because it says 'father-like figure' and 'gender'). (c) The research we have has been done by hundreds of researchers in many different countries and has been peer-reviewed unlike yours -- which automatically makes our research more acceptable, because articles which have been peer-reviewed are automatically granted more credibility because if there was any political bias, misinterpretation of data and so on, the reviewers would have caught it. (d) Your own 'conventional wisdom' is useless, as psychology has shown 'conventional wisdom' is often wrong.

    Now, when you can understand all of the things which I have above-stated and you can present peer-reviewed research which actually deals with same-sex parents, then I will take you seriously. Until such a time, you will continue to present yourself as an ignorant broken record who keeps repeating the same false and ignorant information.
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    (Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
    No it doesn't. I said we undertand how families work. I didn't say we know everything. However we do understand how homosexual parents affect outcomes of children. They don't. Studies have this over and over again. We understand and know this. And then of course it has been observed that same-sex adoption happens in nature so we aren't really tampering with anything.
    You said we understand how children and families work. We dont fully understand those things.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_synchrony





    That is what The Prince's Trust says. The rest was all interpretation by the Daily Mail which is not a very reliable or credible source is it? :rolleyes: Show me where she says children need male or female role models. She didn't? Hm..what did she say? ‘It is nothing less than a tragedy that so many young people feel they don’t have a role model.
    ‘We should not underestimate the impact a positive adult influence can have on a young person.
    ....so....adult influence. Gender neutral. A role model. Non specified gender...Show me where The Prince's Trust says you need a male or female role model again? :rolleyes: We went over this already.

    EDIT: Just to clarify, nowhere in the article did it state the role models had to be a parent either. Merely that there should be one. So again saying that homosexuals don't fill the role model is irrelevant as it doesn't have to be the parents.
    The study was done on those that lacked the parent role model :confused:

    I dont see why the mails right wing bias makes them worse than you and your left wing one.
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    (Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
    For starters, I just want to point out that I am not trying to be obstinate or arguable, and I appreciate that you support homosexual's rights to adopt. However on your points, there are also plenty of stereotypes for some of the qualities that both mini and I suggested. And kids are very commonly bullied for them. The point is that just because a child may get bullied isn't a reason to deny them an otherwise good home.
    Well then, if that's your view, which I'm afraid I have my reservations about, then there's no problem and you should adopt. If you think you can provide a child with a good enough home and care, you should fight for it, and not be caring what others think! good luck
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    You said we understand how children and families work. We dont fully understand those things.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_synchrony

    Explain to me how that link was relevant? And saying we understand doesn't mean we know everything (or as you say 'fully understand') :rolleyes: How many times do I need to repeat myself?


    The study was done on those that lacked the parent role model :confused:
    hahaha and what was the conclusion, even by your right-wing bias? That they needed parental role models? No. It was that they need good role models. So now please stop using the same crap.

    I dont see why the mails right wing bias makes them worse than you and your left wing one.
    The mails bias was shown because it inferred things from the data that it couldn't infer. Not because it was right wing. What left wing bias do I have? What biased source have I provided?
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    (Original post by Frey)
    I, myself, am more than happy for gay/lesbian couples to adopt. However, in the current climate, I would have to say no. This is because until it's socially acceptable (which it may just be in the future) the child in question will be open to a lot of serious bullying and unhappiness, and at the end of the day, that's what's important, the child.
    A child is open to bullying no matter what their circumstances, so we would have to stop all adoption if we were waiting until there was no chance of bullying.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    I kinda like the slightly warped person ive become. Although im a difficult person to be, i like my style. Id have achieved more tho. In my experience kids like I was become the attention seeking class clowns and grow into witty interesting sorts. And so are likable to others and to themselves. But difficult to be. I guess such things are the reason people who seem brilliant sometimes implode in one way or another.
    Glad to see you're happy with who you are. That's all anyone can ask.

    Perhaps a lack of a father figure didn't have the affect you thought it did?

    (Original post by green.tea)
    A mixed gender couple wouldnt have to show they could provide opposite gender role models.
    That's not really what I asked, but okay.

    That being said, why shouldn't they have to?

    (Original post by green.tea)
    Having thought about the suicide thing i think it largely down to the "gotta be one of the lads. what are you doing with those flowers, thats gay." kinda attitude which obviously I have experienced, and completely ignored if im honest. Class clowning earns leeway. But a couple of high profile openly gay footballers is the thing i think would change that the most. You'd be right to take issue with the sort of cretin that runs that game.
    It's more to do with a heteronormative society that makes young lgbt teens feel like 'other', it's not a nice feeling.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    This is really simple: If you're incapable of understanding basic logic and gender theory, you have no business on this thread -- because so far, you've merely managed to drive those of us who are actually educated insane with your complete and total ignorance. If you're not willing to educate yourself, then stop posting.

    (1) A mother and a father are gender roles -- meaning that a person of either sex and fill these roles. Please do some basic research on what gender and gender roles actually are, because so far you've managed to demonstrate that you know literally nothing about them.

    (2) Nowhere has it stated that a role model needs to be a parent -- even in the links you've provided it merely states a 'father-like' figure. A father-like figure (a) doesn't need to be a parent and (b) is a gender role, which means refer back to point (1).

    (3) .... Your research is literally meaningless, and the fact that you cannot understand that merely attests to the fact that you cannot understand very basic logic and know absolutely nothing about psychological research standards. (a) the research you've presented was not conducted on same-sex families, which means you cannot apply it to same-sex families. I don't take research on gravity and apply it to how hydrogen bonds exist, do I? No, because they aren't related. (b) You've presented a measly amount of research, which at this point in time, has never supported your claims (it supports us because it says 'father-like figure' and 'gender'). (c) The research we have has been done by hundreds of researchers in many different countries and has been peer-reviewed unlike yours -- which automatically makes our research more acceptable, because articles which have been peer-reviewed are automatically granted more credibility because if there was any political bias, misinterpretation of data and so on, the reviewers would have caught it. (d) Your own 'conventional wisdom' is useless, as psychology has shown 'conventional wisdom' is often wrong.

    Now, when you can understand all of the things which I have above-stated and you can present peer-reviewed research which actually deals with same-sex parents, then I will take you seriously. Until such a time, you will continue to present yourself as an ignorant broken record who keeps repeating the same false and ignorant information.
    I think the fact that my research was done for the practical purpose of solving a problem rather than supporting a political argument makes mine more reliable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climati...il_controversy
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    I think the fact that my research was done for the practical purpose of solving a problem rather than supporting a political argument makes mine more reliable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climati...il_controversy
    Peer reviewed research does not have an agenda.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    I think the fact that my research was done for the practical purpose of solving a problem rather than supporting a political argument makes mine more reliable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climati...il_controversy
    What proof do you have that any of the research NYU provided was done to support a political argument? You are now just making things up.
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    (Original post by Dupe)
    of course they shouldnt. a child's interest is more important than a couple's interest.
    Oh right, because you went and asked every child that was going to be adopted into a gay home and they all outrightly declined any desire to? What makes you assume that every child wouldn't want gay parents?
    It's naive people like you that have unfounded opinions against gays that make things like gay adoption an issue. Come back with an actual reason why gay people shouldn't adopt and then try and say something on the matter.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    What logical reason is there that another mother solves the lack of father?
    Role models do not necessarily have to be parents of the child, you have been told this numerous times.

    Both parents being present for reasonable time should apply to everyone. Extra people are only required when on gender is missing.
    This is clearly not true. I know people whose mother or father work in an extremely consuming job, yet still maintain a fantastic relationship with their family. Equally, I know people with poor relationships with their parents, despite spending a reasonable amount of time together.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    I think the fact that my research was done for the practical purpose of solving a problem rather than supporting a political argument makes mine more reliable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climati...il_controversy
    ..... Are you really this ignorant? Same-sex family research has been going on since the 70's, long before same-sex adoption was legal or even being considered.

    Secondly, the research is peer-reviewed, meaning it's more reliable than any non-peer-reviewed research. As WantCakeGetCake stated, peer-reviewed research does not have an agenda -- the whole purpose of peer-review to make sure that the researcher who published the paper was not biased and was not trying to further an agenda.

    When you're done making ignorant statements about how you believe that your non-peer-reviewed research is 'more reliable', then we can talk -- as I don't get enjoyment from dealing with ignorant people.

    Secondly, even if we look at your research, it does not support your claims!!!!! The research you've presented states: (1) Same gender role model and (2) father-like figure.

    As to (1): A gender role can be filled with someone of either sex, as a gender role is merely a social role -- it has nothing to do with whether or not you have female anatomy or male anatomy. Welcome to basic gender theory 101.

    As to (2): A father-like figure need not be a parent, which is evident from the "like" used in the actual wording. If the role model needed to be a parent, the research would have stated that it needed to be a parent. Fact of the matter is that it merely need to be a father-like figure and not an actual father.

    Great, so the research which you've presented doesn't even support you. Again, come back when you're done being so ignorant and then we'll talk.
Updated: May 14, 2012
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