[Metrobeans]

M83 - War Motion, JPKC

This House believes that the United Kingdom should, under all circumstances, abide by the principles of just war. We should stand by our enduring committments to the Geneva Convention, the Law of the Hague, and the Law of Geneva, as humanitarianism applies both in times of peace and conflict, and under no exception should these axioms be ever violated.

[JPKC]

Aye. It's important to affirm the morality with which we take up arms.

[MacDaddi]

War when warred upon.

[DebatingGreg]

Ah, yes. Jus ad bellum, jus in bello and jus post bellum, if my Latin preserves. I did quite a bit on Just War and all that jazz a while ago, and shall refresh my memory. Probably an easy aye though.

EDIT: I got the Latin right

[CyclopsRock]

We got cruise missiles, let's ****in' use em.

[thunder_chunky]

So we should always abide by the Geneva convention? Yeah no **** Sherlock.

[TopHat]

Seems a bit of a "lol duh" motion, but sure, Aye.

[JPKC]

(Original post by CyclopsRock)
We got cruise missiles, let's ****in' use em.

(Original post by MacCuishy)
War when warred upon.

Just to be clear, do you two agree with always abiding by international law with regards to our conduct in wars?

(Original post by DebatingGreg)
Ah, yes. Jus ad bellum, jus in bello and jus post bellum, if my Latin preserves. I did quite a bit on Just War and all that jazz a while ago, and shall refresh my memory. Probably an easy aye though.

EDIT: I got the Latin right

Congrats. Jus ad bellum sounds like a marketing slogan for a new type of ketchup.

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
So we should always abide by the Geneva convention? Yeah no **** Sherlock.

Granted this shouldn't really be a political issue.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by JPKC)
Granted this shouldn't really be a political issue.

Rather it's a given really. We strive to do this anyway and if we ever wavered our government would be called out on it by organisations and people in this country and those abroad too.

[TopHat]

If this isn't a political issue, why are you putting forth a motion on it?

[toronto353]

Aye

(Original post by DebatingGreg)
Ah, yes. Jus ad bellum, jus in bello and jus post bellum, if my Latin preserves. I did quite a bit on Just War and all that jazz a while ago, and shall refresh my memory. Probably an easy aye though.

EDIT: I got the Latin right

Your Latin is correct, though I would write jus as ius. It's just a style point though.

[TopHat]

Or even ivs ad bellvm, ivs in bello et ivs post bellvm, if we're using alphabet of the Roman Empire, rather than Vulgar Latin.

[tehFrance]

War brings wealth to us so... no.

[DebatingGreg]

(Original post by toronto353)
Your Latin is correct, though I would write jus as ius. It's just a style point though.

Thanks My Latin is very basic and needs improving

(Original post by TopHat)
Or even ivs ad bellvm, ivs in bello et ivs post bellvm, if we're using alphabet of the Roman Empire, rather than Vulgar Latin.

Interesting

[toronto353]

(Original post by DebatingGreg)
Thanks My Latin is very basic and needs improving

Try Greek. That will show you that your Latin isn't that bad.

[JPKC]

(Original post by tehFrance)
War brings wealth to us so... no.

This is merely stating that the Geneva Conventions should be stuck to in cases of war, nothing else. You disagree?

[SciFiRory]

the problem I have is that these axioms are incredibly subjective...interpretation of them has led to many wars that I do not regard as justifiable or indeed that we should be involved with at all.

[DebatingGreg]

(Original post by toronto353)
Try Greek. That will show you that your Latin isn't that bad.

I presume you do both?

EDIT: thinking about it, answer in the Bar, so we don't clog up this thread

[JPKC]

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Rather it's a given really. We strive to do this anyway and if we ever wavered our government would be called out on it by organisations and people in this country and those abroad too.

Today is the 100th anniversary (Chinese calendar) of just war theory, hence the Motion.

[JPKC]

(Original post by SciFiBoy)
the problem I have is that these axioms are incredibly subjective...interpretation of them has led to many wars that I do not regard as justifiable or indeed that we should be involved with at all.

I agree with regards to jus ad bellum (one person's 'just cause' is another person's Halliburton), but when it comes to the principles of the Geneva Conventions and the laws of Geneva and the Hague it's a lot less open to interpretation. It's very hard to spin "don't torture POWs, don't kill non-combatants" into something else.