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The Commons Bar Mk VI

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    Great, I have to re-apply for student loans etc
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    What is? :confused:
    Not having you as President
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    (Original post by Keckers)
    Which just shows the problem with all current forms of governance. People object so strongly to certain candidates because of the power they wield gives them opportunity to thoroughly ruin the lives of groups of individuals.

    Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who created it.
    Depending on the fail safes of said form of governance.

    Cliche I know, but look at the political situation of Sparta. Two kings more or less institutionalized progress without schism. Albeit it was utilitarian in effort.

    I personally don't agree that as a species or, to be more blunt; as etic of how organisms co-operate biologically, specifically mammalia; we are able to govern ourselves based on best interests from whatever origin/cadre formed them, indefinably.

    I'm pretty apathetic towards whatever "logical gap" some people would assume from that chasm, so I couldn't say but I think there should certainly be more pretense on the subject of how 'we are' before we intend to make fail-proof regimes.
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    Has someone mentioned the UK Constitution as part of the Referendum debate?
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    (Original post by Mazzini)
    Not having you as President
    Darn. (But seriously?! I want to get to the bottom of this, I genuinely don't get the 'justifications' for monarchy...)

    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Has someone mentioned the UK Constitution as part of the Referendum debate?
    It is a referendum on the constitution so yes.
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    Darn. (But seriously?! I want to get to the bottom of this, I genuinely don't get the 'justifications' for monarchy...)



    It is a referendum on the constitution so yes.
    I mean the nature of the Sovereign's role and moving to the US style system

    The debate has not focused on the technical stuff
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    (Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
    Depending on the fail safes of said form of governance.
    'Fail safes' in themselves often have consequences unknown at the time of their conception. Just look at the abuse of Article 48 by the Nazis.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I mean the nature of the Sovereign's role and moving to the US style system
    I dislike the US system personally. Too much gridlock, the checks and balances do not work. It'd be a nightmare. I prefer the French system.

    The debate has not focused on the technical stuff
    My video (see sig) makes some clear points, and I made some in my response to Keckers earlier. Generally about how all power in the UK's constitution derives from the Crown, the electorate are only a footnote. Our system basically runs on unlicensed power.

    Why are you in favour of the monarchy Morgsie?
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    I'm a fan of codified constitutions, but I don't have faith in any of the current crop of legislators and law makers to make one. The EU is a beautiful example of the worst kind - even aside from the fact that they routinely ignore their own rules ("The Union shall not be liable for or assume the commitments of central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of any Member State").

    Look at the House of Commons. Do you see a James Madison in there? I couldn't have less faith in a group of individuals if I tried. In light of this, I've no choice but to support the current, organic, uncodified constitution.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I mean the nature of the Sovereign's role and moving to the US style system
    You want the US system?

    My system is the best
    (Original post by JPKC)
    I prefer the French system.
    Très bon !!!
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    I dislike the US system personally. Too much gridlock, the checks and balances do not work. It'd be a nightmare. I prefer the French system.



    My video (see sig) makes some clear points, and I made some in my response to Keckers earlier. Generally about how all power in the UK's constitution derives from the Crown, the electorate are only a footnote. Our system basically runs on unlicensed power.

    Why are you in favour of the monarchy Morgsie?
    I am staying out of it the debate, I'm concentrating on back room stuff etc.

    History, culture, diplomacy etc.

    Kate (Duchess of Cambridge) is stunning.
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    I'm a fan of codified constitutions, but I don't have faith in any of the current crop of legislators and law makers to make one. The EU is a beautiful example of the worst kind - even aside from the fact that they routinely ignore their own rules ("The Union shall not be liable for or assume the commitments of central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of any Member State").

    Look at the House of Commons. Do you see a James Madison in there? I couldn't have less faith in a group of individuals if I tried. In light of this, I've no choice but to support the current, organic, uncodified constitution.
    James Madison seems an odd figure to bring up. Pre or Post Anglo-American war?
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    (Original post by Keckers)
    James Madison seems an odd figure to bring up. Pre or Post Anglo-American war?
    Whatever, really. I meant that he's seen as one of the key authors of the US constitution. It has its flaws but it's one of the few consitutions that's more or less witheld it's citizens rights for centuries now. It was crafted by people with genuine political convinction and wisdom, as well as a healthy dose of humility. I don't think any politician in the UK right now would be capable of producing such a document.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    Kate (Duchess of Cambridge) is stunning.
    No she is not. She is nothing compared to Pipa... Willy married the wrong sister!
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    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    I don't think any politician in the UK right now would be capable of producing such a document.
    There are probably only a handful (at most) in the history of Parliament who have been.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I watched the entire series because I was interested in that period.

    One thing that was not mentioned is the internal division in the Labour Party before the Split
    What is the series called?
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    History, culture, diplomacy etc.
    Does any of that really justify inherited constitutional power? Political inequality? Executive/Parliamentary tyranny?

    The fact that something's happened for a long time doesn't really make it legitimate, and the culture wouldn't change - we could still have all the pomp and ceremony, we'd just have an elected person riding in the carriages and making the speeches. And I think an elected head of state could be just as good at diplomacy as any monarch!
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    What is the series called?
    The 70s.

    Should be on the BBC Iplayer
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    The 70s.

    Should be on the BBC Iplayer
    Definitely worth a watch then?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Definitely worth a watch then?
    I would recommend it.

    I watched it because I was interested in the period.
Updated: October 8, 2012
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