[digitalis]

(Original post by TaraBelle)
I asked one of the doctors this on my work experience, his reply was 'I hear America is a nice place to work..'

It is decent, but the hoops and financial expense to do that are enormous. Plus, the conversion of postgraduate training to a UK CESR (google it) are arduous as the two systems don't dovetail (for example asking a nursing assistant for '360 degree feedback' here as an MD would get you laughed at but it is crucial to include this sort of stuff in your CESR application pack) with variable success rates of around 50%.

[Orinincandenza]

(Original post by Renal)
Being a junior doctor, doing all the things that junior doctors in that place do (with the possible exception of attending teaching) (generally rotas and roles are split junior/senior/consultant), but without the training progression associated with that.

(Original post by Helenia)
Basically, I do the same as any other ICU SHO does, but my year in this job is not officially recognised as part of a training programme. That's not to say I haven't learnt loads from it - I have, both practical skills and clinical knowledge, but I don't get to do assessments etc that would form part of an anaesthetic/ICU training portfolio, or have a formal teaching/supervision programme, so it doesn't "count."

My trust are actually pretty generous to their non-training SHOs in terms of study leave and teaching, but in others they get less.

Oh OK, that makes more sense, Thank you.

[AkDo]

(Original post by Clip)
Serious question:

What happens to all the people who don't get to go to Medical School?

The statistics and anecdotes would tell you that this would be the overwhelming majority - yet I have yet to meet anyone that has told me they were a failed medic.

I also meet a lot of people with Philosophy, Psychology, Law and Physics degrees. But I don't meet anyone with these Biomedical Sciences degrees (who never quite made it).

They do Biomed (then apply med or dent or go into research), apply for dentistry [the following year], economics route, take a gap year to apply to med the following year or do another degree again for graduate medicine entry route.

Generally they never mention they're failed medics. When I meet people who are and they hear I'm a medic yeah they feel a bit crap, and yeah it becomes awkward for a second - but they do alright if they work hard and as they learn more and more about medicine.

Also I've met a fair few people who actually wanted to do Biomedical sciences so they could get a phd and then do research. It's not always a reject option (just most of the time it is)

[Carpediemxx]

Most people wont broadcast it to the world for whatever reason, they just state their course is their chosen course and be done with it

[sarahlabrosse]

[Happydude]

(Original post by Helenia)
Basically, I do the same as any other ICU SHO does, but my year in this job is not officially recognised as part of a training programme. That's not to say I haven't learnt loads from it - I have, both practical skills and clinical knowledge, but I don't get to do assessments etc that would form part of an anaesthetic/ICU training portfolio, or have a formal teaching/supervision programme, so it doesn't "count."

My trust are actually pretty generous to their non-training SHOs in terms of study leave and teaching, but in others they get less.

I'm starting my medical degree in September, so I guess I should be worried about this kind of thing. Isn't it a bit retarded to have you doing a job where you could easily be being assessed and trained on the job instead of sitting on a career plateau?

[Helenia]

(Original post by Happydude)
I'm starting my medical degree in September, so I guess I should be worried about this kind of thing. Isn't it a bit retarded to have you doing a job where you could easily be being assessed and trained on the job instead of sitting on a career plateau?

Tbh, if you haven't started medical school yet, there are a lot more pressing things to be worrying about than not getting an ST job in 7 years time. As for being "retarded," there aren't enough consultant jobs available, so it's pointless for them to officially train up loads of SHOs/registrars if there won't be consultant jobs. Plus some jobs are not suitable for training as there's too much service provision and not enough training/skill development opportunities.

It's a bit annoying that it'll take me a year longer to complete my training, but I'm in no great rush.

[Happydude]

(Original post by Helenia)
Tbh, if you haven't started medical school yet, there are a lot more pressing things to be worrying about than not getting an ST job in 7 years time. As for being "retarded," there aren't enough consultant jobs available, so it's pointless for them to officially train up loads of SHOs/registrars if there won't be consultant jobs. Plus some jobs are not suitable for training as there's too much service provision and not enough training/skill development opportunities.

It's a bit annoying that it'll take me a year longer to complete my training, but I'm in no great rush.

Fair enough. I'd like to end up being an A and E consultant though... That would be awesome.

[Helenia]

(Original post by Happydude)
Fair enough. I'd like to end up being an A and E consultant though... That would be awesome.

Yeah, there's no reason why you can't do that! I still intend to be a consultant in the end, but I didn't get into a training programme last year when I was an F2 so I had to take this year in a non-training job. And then I'm going to have babies sometime soonish so that'll slow things down further...

[Happydude]

(Original post by Helenia)
Yeah, there's no reason why you can't do that! I still intend to be a consultant in the end, but I didn't get into a training programme last year when I was an F2 so I had to take this year in a non-training job. And then I'm going to have babies sometime soonish so that'll slow things down further...

What decides whether or not you get into a training programme? Academic performance? Intercalated degree?

Also good luck with your babies!

[Helenia]

(Original post by Happydude)
What decides whether or not you get into a training programme? Academic performance? Intercalated degree?

Also good luck with your babies!

It varies a little depending on each specialty, as they each design and run their own recruitment process.

For Anaesthetics, the initial application stage was an online form, in which you had to fill in sections on intercalated degrees, prizes at med school (if only I had known how many times these would come up later!), audit, teaching and research experience, postgraduate exams (e.g. MRCP - you can't take FRCA if you're not in an anaesthetic training job) and a section on "commitment to specialty" where you had to show what you had done to research the career/demonstrate your interest in it. Last year, they also had some questions like "describe your experience of teamwork and why this is important" or something like that, but this year they got rid of those ones and just stuck to more factual questions.

After that comes interviews. This year, everyone who met the basic requirements (essentially, having the right to work in the UK and being at the right career stage) was guaranteed an interview at their first choice deanery; last year the paper forms were graded and each deanery selected the top x% for interview - this meant that some people had multiple interviews and offers and some had none at all. Interviews were in a sort of MMI-setup - we had 3 different stations but I know some other deaneries had more. I don't know how they calculated final scores but I think it was somehow based on both your interview and your application form, and then jobs were offered to those with the highest scores.

I think most specialties do something similarish - an online form and then interviews, with points being given for roughly similar things (intercalated degrees, publication, audit, teaching...) and then probably a couple of specialty-specific extras. GP recruitment is different, but I haven't gone through it myself so I don't know the details.

Oh, and as for babies, I'm not going there just yet, but it's part of the long-term plan and I don't intend to wait until I'm a consultant before sprogging up.

[Beska]

(Original post by Helenia)
prizes at med school (if only I had known how many times these would come up later!)

What kind of stuff is that?

[Helenia]

(Original post by Beska)
What kind of stuff is that?

Distinctions in exams (especially clinical exams) and any other random prizes your med school may offer. I won the elective report prize. But there were also prizes for things like performance in O&G/paeds exams, palliative care essays, SSC reports, plus some random essay prizes. These things count a surprising amount in job applications!

[lcsurfer]

Failing to get into medicine has been the best thing for me... I get to work around the world in public health and disaster medicine/training, moving to thailand for a year this year and i will try again for graduate entry in 2013/2014.
I didnt do the biomed route i did something completely different and dont regret it in the slightest, i want to get into medicine in the end but why not have some fun on the way?

[Happydude]

(Original post by lcsurfer)
Failing to get into medicine has been the best thing for me... I get to work around the world in public health and disaster medicine/training, moving to thailand for a year this year and i will try again for graduate entry in 2013/2014.
I didnt do the biomed route i did something completely different and dont regret it in the slightest, i want to get into medicine in the end but why not have some fun on the way?

Good luck, you'll get it! I like the saying "what's for you won't go by you".

[izzypetrie]

(Original post by lcsurfer)
Failing to get into medicine has been the best thing for me... I get to work around the world in public health and disaster medicine/training, moving to thailand for a year this year and i will try again for graduate entry in 2013/2014.
I didnt do the biomed route i did something completely different and dont regret it in the slightest, i want to get into medicine in the end but why not have some fun on the way?

what did you do?
and what did you do about your personal statement for the two degrees?

[lcsurfer]

i did disaster management... however have experience working in healthcare... I didnt apply for medicine as an undergrad as i didn't know what i wanted to do with myself as i was only 17.
Through my course you meet people, network and I've had some amazing opportunities, when speaking to doctors nurses etc the mature students and grads are always on top and better than the school leavers.

Remember medicine is hard its not all like the greys anatomy/house etc on TV. live a little first