[Matthew12]

Judaism to my understanding all Jews can break the Taryag Miztvot(613 commandments of the Torah) with the exception of idolatry and sexual immorality if they are are in a life situation. As the rabbis interpreted the pasuk(biblical verse) and you will live in them i.e the Mitzvot as that mitzvot can be broken in a lif threatening situation. So yes in a situation like that it is acceptable for a Jew to make medication of that kind.

[inadilemma]

(Original post by ckingalt)
I read once that some 40 medications are made from or contain pig parts. Thyroid medication and insulin were two on that list I believe. Do the Jewish/Muslim faiths typically make concessions for those who may require such medication? If not, what if a swine based cancer cure were to be discovered?

If it were a life or death situation, Judaism would allow it. There's actually a commandment which states that although eating non-kosher food is forbidden, if there is no other food available, it is a sin not to eat and starve to death. I.e. human life takes precedence over the rules of Kashrut.

I would assume the same applies to medicine.

[tazarooni89]

The Qur'an simply prohibits eating the flesh of swine (unless you're starving).
As long as you're not doing that, you're fine really. I doubt any form of medical treatment actually requires you to eat pig meat.

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
why would god say that though? if he supposedly created you, why would he want to get rid of you just like that? and you can change/run away from it... its called medication/treatment... if medication stops god from wanting people to die young, why does he not get everyone to attack hospitals? why does he not destroy them?

its much much more likely that the great merciful kind god would want you to live as long as possible...

We are all going to die sooner or later. Everyone has different ways of dying. That's why as a Muslim you are supposed to do the things required for a Muslim if he/she wants to go to heaven because death can happen at any time. It's part of life. People die young or old..when you hear people dying at a young age it makes you realise that it doesn't matter what your age is, just because you are young, it doesn't mean that you won't die. He wouldn't want to destroy His own creation, because the time we have now is to worship God and thank Him for everything we have. You can't escape death, it's just part of life, you either die young or old. Just because youre young, doesn't mean you won't die.

[Warfare]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
This is the Islamic answer;

This goes for muslims. So part of the questions answered.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Safiya122)
We are all going to die sooner or later. Everyone has different ways of dying. That's why as a Muslim you are supposed to do the things required for a Muslim if he/she wants to go to heaven because death can happen at any time. It's part of life. People die young or old..when you hear people dying at a young age it makes you realise that it doesn't matter what your age is, just because you are young, it doesn't mean that you won't die. He wouldn't want to destroy His own creation, because the time we have now is to worship God and thank Him for everything we have. You can't escape death, it's just part of life, you either die young or old. Just because youre young, doesn't mean you won't die.

thats quite a defeatist attitude... we cant escape death but we can prolong it as much as possible...

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
thats quite a defeatist attitude... we cant escape death but we can prolong it as much as possible...

It doesn't matter how long you prolong it, we are all going to die sooner or later. We can't escape death, that's a fact. You can run away from it as much possible..it's still going to happen.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Safiya122)
It doesn't matter how long you prolong it, we are all going to die sooner or later. We can't escape death, that's a fact. You can run away from it as much possible..it's still going to happen.

it does matter...
are you actually reading my posts properly and thinking about them before you reply?

what kind of depressive attitude is that? im not saying people can escape death... <--- IM NOT saying, read it... emphasis on NOT...
you can have a full MEANINGFUL life if you try and prolong it....if you had a serious illness when you were a small child would you want to off yourself and lose out on all the years you could have had?

what kind of bullcrap is that? is it cowardly running for wanting to live? if youve been stabbed are you just going to lay down on the ground and wait to die?
there is nothing wrong with trying to prolong your life... its not weak, its not like running away for hells sake...

this has to be nonsense ... im not sure youre understanding what youre actually saying...

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
it does matter...
are you actually reading my posts properly and thinking about them before you reply?

what kind of depressive attitude is that? im not saying people can escape death... <--- IM NOT saying, read it... emphasis on NOT...
you can have a full MEANINGFUL life if you try and prolong it....if you had a serious illness when you were a small child would you want to off yourself and lose out on all the years you could have had?

what kind of bullcrap is that? is it cowardly running for wanting to live? if youve been stabbed are you just going to lay down on the ground and wait to die?
there is nothing wrong with trying to prolong your life... its not weak, its not like running away for hells sake...

this has to be nonsense ... im not sure youre understanding what youre actually saying...

I wouldn't be typing this if I didn't know what I was saying, Kay? I think you don't actually understand what I'm trying to say here. I didn't say that you should run away from life, my point is that death is still going to come at you. Some children gain deadly diseases and die, its harsh but it's life. They won't suffer the pain in heaven though will they? There is nothing wrong with prolonging your life, I want a prolong life, we all do. My point being is you can't espace death no matter how hard you try. I didn't say that you can't prolong your life.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think you understand what I'm saying.

[joshgoldman]

I don't know the actual answer, but for Jews I'd guess it depends on the circumstance. One may have to consult their Rabbi?

For example, in normal circumstances, Jews are forbidden to use the phone on the Sabbath, however, in life threatening/important circumstances, they can.

[MHMQ786]

(Original post by ckingalt)
I read once that some 40 medications are made from or contain pig parts. Thyroid medication and insulin were two on that list I believe. Do the Jewish/Muslim faiths typically make concessions for those who may require such medication? If not, what if a swine based cancer cure were to be discovered?

Muslims are allowed to take medication (for life-threatening conditions) containing ingredients that are not halal (gelatine/alcohol/pork etc) if no other alternative is available.

http://www.maslaha.org/islamic-answe...hol-or-gelatin

[DarkTitan]

(Original post by MHMQ786)
Muslims are allowed to take medication (for life-threatening conditions) containing ingredients that are not halal (gelatine/alcohol/pork etc) if no other alternative is available.

http://www.maslaha.org/islamic-answe...hol-or-gelatin

This

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Safiya122)
I wouldn't be typing this if I didn't know what I was saying, Kay? I think you don't actually understand what I'm trying to say here. I didn't say that you should run away from life, my point is that death is still going to come at you. Some children gain deadly diseases and die, its harsh but it's life. They won't suffer the pain in heaven though will they? There is nothing wrong with prolonging your life, I want a prolong life, we all do. My point being is you can't espace death no matter how hard you try. I didn't say that you can't prolong your life.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think you understand what I'm saying.

not necessarily
i do understand thank you...

It doesn't matter how long you prolong it, we are all going to die sooner or later. We can't escape death, that's a fact. You can run away from it as much possible..it's still going to happen.

no, you didnt say, but you implied that trying to prolong your life is like running away like in the bold...

i know death comes...everyone knows this... its a blatantly OBVIOUS thing... theres no reason to keep repeating this... when i say prolong life, i am not saying try and stop death altogether... i am NOT talking about immortality...

those children you speak of... they wont feel pain, but neither will they feel love, happiness, joy...emotion...they may not form their first relationship...get married...have their own kids...discover things that for them truly make them understand the point of living... theyre dead... you can talk about all the negative things they wont feel anymore, but they wont feel anything positive either... if they were to feel constant pain for the rest of their life, then id understand an early death but not every life threatening case is like this, not even most... to die early and lose the chance to properly live and feel the emotions i have said is a waste of a life, and if god is a rational person, then id suspect hed agree...

again there is no need to keep saying you cant escape death... im NOT saying people need to live forever, im saying they should live a normal life instead of wasting it, so please stop repeating this over and over... this is one of the reasons why i think youre not understanding...

[emerset]

(Original post by Safiya122)
It doesn't matter how long you prolong it, we are all going to die sooner or later. We can't escape death, that's a fact. You can run away from it as much possible..it's still going to happen.

Of course you can't escape death, but most people do try to embrace life you silly prole.
Running away from death and embracing life are two very different things.

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
not necessarily
i do understand thank you...


no, you didnt say, but you implied that trying to prolong your life is like running away like in the bold...

i know death comes...everyone knows this... its a blatantly OBVIOUS thing... theres no reason to keep repeating this... when i say prolong life, i am not saying try and stop death altogether... i am NOT talking about immortality...

those children you speak of... they wont feel pain, but neither will they feel love, happiness, joy...emotion...they may not form their first relationship...get married...have their own kids...discover things that for them truly make them understand the point of living... theyre dead... you can talk about all the negative things they wont feel anymore, but they wont feel anything positive either... if they were to feel constant pain for the rest of their life, then id understand an early death but not every life threatening case is like this, not even most... to die early and lose the chance to properly live and feel the emotions i have said is a waste of a life, and if god is a rational person, then id suspect hed agree...

again there is no need to keep saying you cant escape death... im NOT saying people need to live forever, im saying they should live a normal life instead of wasting it, so please stop repeating this over and over... this is one of the reasons why i think youre not understanding...

I didn't mean that living a prolong life is running away. You've misunderstood me, and if I didn't clarify well enough, I apologise. I want to live a prolong life but that doesn't mean I'm trying to run away from death.

God is not a person. If He was a person, he'd be like you and I. Are you saying God is to blame for the fact that children die so young? You think it doesn't upset me that children die so young, with no love, no happiness? Of course it does, but that's also life, as unfortunate as it is. God has clearly placed the faith of the child's to be like that for a reason. However hopefully in the afterlife it won't be like this for the child who suffered whilst alive. Is that clear enough for you? Because if you clearly doesn't seem to understand my point, then this is pointless.

[Safiya122]

(Original post by emerset)
Of course you can't escape death, but most people do try to embrace life you silly prole.
Running away from death and embracing life are two very different things.

Life i said the user above, my meaning has been misunderstood. And I'd appreciate it if I wasn't called names, thanks.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Safiya122)
I didn't mean that living a prolong life is running away. You've misunderstood me, and if I didn't clarify well enough, I apologise. I want to live a prolong life but that doesn't mean I'm trying to run away from death.

God is not a person. If He was a person, he'd be like you and I. Are you saying God is to blame for the fact that children die so young? You think it doesn't upset me that children die so young, with no love, no happiness? Of course it does, but that's also life, as unfortunate as it is. God has clearly placed the faith of the child's to be like that for a reason. However hopefully in the afterlife it won't be like this for the child who suffered whilst alive. Is that clear enough for you? Because if you clearly doesn't seem to understand my point, then this is pointless.

then why did you mention running away then? because that implies you do think prolonging is like running away... what else could it mean then?

if God is as rational and wise as he is known to be, he would still understand that prolonging life is important...regardless of being a person or not...
Well i cant say hes helped the situation to be fair...

again with this defeatist attitude... just because a person has a life threatening condition doesnt mean they can just say 'thats life'... there are ways to try and help the situation... this thread gives the hypothetical that there is medication that can (that just happens to be made of things muslims/jews cant eat)... there is a way to help the situation, saying "thats also life" does not help the situation...

what does the bold mean? are you saying god intended for the child to have a life threatening condition?

all i understand is that youre determined on keeping this defeatist attidude for no rational reason, implying you cant do anything, when in fact you can... atleast under the scenario of this thread...

i understand whatever is being posted... if i dont understand, then ill ask like with the bold

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
then why did you mention running away then? because that implies you do think prolonging is like running away... what else could it mean then?

if God is as rational and wise as he is known to be, he would still understand that prolonging life is important...regardless of being a person or not...
Well i cant say hes helped the situation to be fair...

all i understand is that youre determined on keeping this defeatist attidude for no rational reason, implying you cant do anything, when in fact you can... atleast under the scenario of this thread...

i understand whatever is being posted... if i dont understand, then ill ask like with the bold

You've clearly misunderstood what I mean. I said you can't run away from death. That doesn't mean I said "don't enjoy life" and try to live a prolong life. I want to enjoy life and live a prolong life, who wouldnt?

I'm sorry but are you saying that God is to blame for all the diseases children are born with? Guess what? There must clearly be a effing reason as to why He's created the child's life to be like this! Yes people will think it's harsh, but you think the child will suffer in the afterlife? No. AGAIN, THERE ARE REASONS AS TO WHY THE CHILD'S LIFE IS THE WAY IT IS and you clearly don't seem to understand this..It's not as if God is trying to show Himself as something evil. But as I've mentioned a million times, there are reasons as to why He's causing all this suffering to take place. As sad as it may be, it's reality.
I find it really disrespectful how you called God a person and how it seems your placing the blame on God like He's actually wanting to make every bloody human suffer and I refuse to bother answering your questions anymore. Whether a person has a life threating condition or not, yes go ahead, try and help them but that could simply be God's choice of how the child will die. Of course if I was in a condition like this but no medication was helping me, I would accept that perhaps this is just my fate of death.
Btw "that prolonging life is important" isn't necessarily important. It depends on how you look at it. This life we live, it's not half as important as the afterlife. This is a temporary life, that is not.

Following towards the fact that this debate is clearly not getting anywhere and on top of the fact that I'm finding you quite disrespectful, whether you intend to be or not, I'm ending my part of the debate. I'm not saying that don't take medication to help yourself with an illness, but by all means, DO NOT BLAME GOD FOR THE FACT THAT CHILDREN ARE BORN WITH FATAL DISEASES. There are reasons to it. Now you can believe and assume what you like. One part of a debate is that you and I believe different things however I refuse to bother participating because I feel like you're simply mocking what I'm saying so seriously, believe what you want. There are clearly reasons as to why suffering takes place. Like many people, I wish this wouldn't occrur but I respect, even if I don't know why, God is causing this to happen. Good day to you

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Safiya122)
You've clearly misunderstood what I mean. I said you can't run away from death. That doesn't mean I said "don't enjoy life" and try to live a prolong life. I want to enjoy life and live a prolong life, who wouldnt?

I'm sorry but are you saying that God is to blame for all the diseases children are born with? Guess what? There must clearly be a effing reason as to why He's created the child's life to be like this! Yes people will think it's harsh, but you think the child will suffer in the afterlife? No. AGAIN, THERE ARE REASONS AS TO WHY THE CHILD'S LIFE IS THE WAY IT IS and you clearly don't seem to understand this..It's not as if God is trying to show Himself as something evil. But as I've mentioned a million times, there are reasons as to why He's causing all this suffering to take place. As sad as it may be, it's reality.
I find it really disrespectful how you called God a person and how it seems your placing the blame on God like He's actually wanting to make every bloody human suffer and I refuse to bother answering your questions anymore. Whether a person has a life threating condition or not, yes go ahead, try and help them but that could simply be God's choice of how the child will die. Of course if I was in a condition like this but no medication was helping me, I would accept that perhaps this is just my fate of death.
Btw "that prolonging life is important" isn't necessarily important. It depends on how you look at it. This life we live, it's not half as important as the afterlife. This is a temporary life, that is not.

Following towards the fact that this debate is clearly not getting anywhere and on top of the fact that I'm finding you quite disrespectful, whether you intend to be or not, I'm ending my part of the debate. I'm not saying that don't take medication to help yourself with an illness, but by all means, DO NOT BLAME GOD FOR THE FACT THAT CHILDREN ARE BORN WITH FATAL DISEASES. There are reasons to it. Now you can believe and assume what you like. One part of a debate is that you and I believe different things however I refuse to bother participating because I feel like you're simply mocking what I'm saying so seriously, believe what you want. There are clearly reasons as to why suffering takes place. Like many people, I wish this wouldn't occrur but I respect, even if I don't know why, God is causing this to happen. Good day to you

congrats for the concise post there...that can mean what ive said...

yes...theres a reason why god would have children born...enter this world and experience nothing but suffering until they die soon after...
what is the point of the damn life then? a life filled with nothing but pain...
no you dont seem to understand it... this is why it can be hard having a rational argument regarding theism... simply saying 'it is just the way it is' is not an explanation... look through your eyes... look at the bullcrap in the world....the crap that makes you think what is the point in them being alive... and again... simply saying such does not count as an explanation...
if you die from being unhygienic and have caused dangerous bacteria to be grown around you, are you going to say its what god wants, or are you going to say its simply because theyre unhygienic?

is god not wise? merciful? powerful? loving? caring? fair? supporting? etc? i refer to god in terms of a personified being as these are the traits of god, right?... do you think i like easy to accept how you have such a negative attitude towards life? hearing this makes me think there are a lot more people that have such a view, that it may be more common and its sad. when theres a problem and theres a clear way to resolve it (like in this thread), instead of taking it, and prolonging this life you 'say' you want to prolong, you instead repeat the same crap about death being inescapable thinking god wants death...
you can try and justify all you want, but at the end of the day, life is important... its a shame that religion makes people not appreciate it as much as it should do to the afterlife...

it isnt getting anywhere given the defeatist attitude... oh and i apologise for finding 'being alive' important...what a heartless bastard i am...with the kids early death example i gave before, forgive me for taking your cap locked sentence with a pinch of salt... while i apologise for it seeming to look like im mocking you, i just find it sad that people can have this 'tough luck it is what it is' sort of view just because you think god may want your death. you do know that this thread is about whether to take medication or not right? youre the one who deviated and talked about not blaming god from a simple comment i made. but here we are. i dont see how theres a beneficial reason why god would let people have mental illnesses like mine, i dont see why god makes people who abuse their loved ones...i dont accept simply believing theres some arbitrary reason god did this when its also quite possible that there wasnt one...

regardless of fault, if the traits ive mentioned are actually his traits, then to think god wants death is a contradiction... if these traits are true, a person would expect god to want them to live....good day ...

[Safiya122]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
congrats for the concise post there...that can mean what ive said...

yes...theres a reason why god would have children born...enter this world and experience nothing but suffering until they die soon after...
what is the point of the damn life then? a life filled with nothing but pain...
no you dont seem to understand it... this is why it can be hard having a rational argument regarding theism... simply saying 'it is just the way it is' is not an explanation... look through your eyes... look at the bullcrap in the world....the crap that makes you think what is the point in them being alive... and again... simply saying such does not count as an explanation...
if you die from being unhygienic and have caused dangerous bacteria to be grown around you, are you going to say its what god wants, or are you going to say its simply because theyre unhygienic?

is god not wise? merciful? powerful? loving? caring? fair? supporting? etc? i refer to god in terms of a personified being as these are the traits of god, right?... do you think i like easy to accept how you have such a negative attitude towards life? hearing this makes me think there are a lot more people that have such a view, that it may be more common and its sad. when theres a problem and theres a clear way to resolve it (like in this thread), instead of taking it, and prolonging this life you 'say' you want to prolong, you instead repeat the same crap about death being inescapable thinking god wants death...
you can try and justify all you want, but at the end of the day, life is important... its a shame that religion makes people not appreciate it as much as it should do to the afterlife...

it isnt getting anywhere given the defeatist attitude... oh and i apologise for finding 'being alive' important...what a heartless bastard i am...with the kids early death example i gave before, forgive me for taking your cap locked sentence with a pinch of salt... while i apologise for it seeming to look like im mocking you, i just find it sad that people can have this 'tough luck it is what it is' sort of view just because you think god may want your death. you do know that this thread is about whether to take medication or not right? youre the one who deviated and talked about not blaming god from a simple comment i made. but here we are. i dont see how theres a beneficial reason why god would let people have mental illnesses like mine, i dont see why god makes people who abuse their loved ones...i dont accept simply believing theres some arbitrary reason god did this when its also quite possible that there wasnt one...

regardless of fault, if the traits ive mentioned are actually his traits, then to think god wants death is a contradiction... if these traits are true, a person would expect god to want them to live....good day ...

Ok, clearly you don't understand the term of me not bothering with this debate anymore, otherwise you wouldn't have responded but just to answer your comment of this being a heartless bastard, you're not understanding what I'm saying! I understand what you mean, I respect it, of course it upsets me knowing there are children out there who are suffering so much but I can't go to God "Hey God why are you doing all this?", none of us can entirely be sure as to why. All we can do is understand and respect why He has chosen to do this. It's upsetting, because these children do not deserve it, yet it is life. As sad as it may be, it just is. I don't have a negative thoughts about life, I'M SIMPLY ****KING SAYING YOU CAN'T ESCAPE DEATH. I'm repeating the same effing thing a million times because I don't think you're actually understanding what I mean! Life is important, yes ok I'll agree with you there, make the most out of life, life is worth living and life is precious. You understand that I'm not being negative about life now?! And by no means, and if I did then I apoligise, did I mean that religion makes the life we currently live, unimportant compared to the hereafter. Death is going to happen but you see, the afterlife won't. This life is simply a test but it is as important. Course I take this life as a priceless gift. My life is important, but I don't find this life that I currently live, as important as the life I'm going to live in the Hereafter, that doesn't mean I don't love or appreciate life because I do.

But seriously like I said, I can't be bothered with this debate. I respect your thoughts and opinions and therefore I would really appreciate you accepting and respecting mine. I'm not somebody who can classify myself as a "Scholar of Islam" but if you're really concerned about all this, my suggestion would be ask a Scholar about all this because seriously, it seems to me that my side of the debate seems pointless to you, even if it's not actually. As much as you may understand my points, I don't think you really want to.

Oh and just to answer your first bit about God bringing a child into the world and then they suffer, yes like I said, there's clearly a reason for God as to why He has chosen to do that. I don't know what that reason is but like I said, if you're concerned, talk to a Scholar or something and hopefully they'll answer it.

Until then, look at both parts of the perspectives. Yes it's sad knowing many kids die. I'm not trying to show myself as a heartless person who has no sympathy upon these children or doesn't even appreciate life, I do but I'm simply explaining that God must have a reason as to why this is occuring. I don't know what reason, but perhaps there is somebody out there who will.





Thank you for your side of the debate. I understand, and to some extent agree with the points you have made but I'm no longer going to continue to contribute with this debate. Mainly because I don't need to prove to anybody that God has a reason as to why He causes suffering to happen. My simple belief is that He has a reason and hopefully a time will come when we will all know what that reason is, including you. Hopefully we will all one day find out. If you wish to know your answers, ask a Scholar. Good day and it was nice talking to you (Btw that means I'm not actually going to bother with the debate anymore so there's no reason for a reply back to me )