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why is it acceptable to poke fun at christians but not muslims?

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    It's not acceptable to poke fun at any religion. Religion is supposed to be sacred and its not there to be taken the **** out of
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    (Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
    It's not acceptable to poke fun at any religion. Religion is supposed to be sacred and its not there to be taken the **** out of
    wrong. religion may be sacred to specific people, but freedom of speech is more important than the entitlement which people seem to have with regards to not being offended. also, religions are ridiculous very often, and so often deserve ridicule.
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    (Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
    It's not acceptable to poke fun at any religion. Religion is supposed to be sacred and its not there to be taken the **** out of
    yes it is. hitchens explains why.



    "one of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority"
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    (Original post by MrCarmady)
    morality is subjective, of course, but you don't have to believe in god to believe in the validity of the golden rule. and the per capita gdp stats are nice and all, but they're largely attributable to oil in this case, and the gini coefficients of muslim countries tend to be woeful
    it would help if you quoted me. so, its down to personal opinion if murdering an innocent baby is either right or wrong? its not just wrong, regardless of your opinion?

    the golden rule isn't a great thing to ground your morals in, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Some people like pain and hurting themselves, therefore they should go around hurting people and slitting other peoples wrists because thats what they want done to themselves, or kill them because they want to die themselves???

    i've stated how the other top 3 european countries made their money and it had nothing to do with not believing in god, being tax free havens, steal production and banking. and the other was an imperialistic power and would have stolen the wealth of the countries it ruled as well being like the middle east, in that it is rich in natural resources... neither of the countries can attribute their wealth to believing or not believing in a god.
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    (Original post by MrCarmady)
    wrong. religion may be sacred to specific people, but freedom of speech is more important than the entitlement which people seem to have with regards to not being offended. also, religions are ridiculous very often, and so often deserve ridicule.
    wrong? so its o.k to racially abuse people and hide under "freedom of speech" or for me to verbally asualt your mother or daughter (someone or something you hold dear to your heart).
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    yes, that's exactly what can be really funny

    there is no reason why religion should enjoy some privileged status : you can make fun of ideologies, you can make fun of people, of political parties, and also of religions

    that's the way our society is organized, and I am quite happy that it's like that

    the only people who may need perhaps some special protection are the disabled, the endangered, the weak : not those who spend most of their time boasting of their strength and numbers
    So I guess under your "ideology" you can be racist as well, you yourself have just said "the only people who may need perhaps some special protection" so you're already discriminating against the masses. For people who follow religion it is not just a "religion" as it appears to the casual observer, it is a way of life, so by mocking how someone worships you are essentially mocking their way of life and that is why so many people find it offensive. You wouldn't mock someone in how they ate or drank to their faces, so why do you feel its acceptable to mock another person on how they live through their religion? Just for a few laughs, instead why not do something constructive?

    (Original post by mariachi)
    of course that all religions, including Islam, are an illusion

    basically, religions are an answer to our feeling of loneliness and helplessness in the vast Universe, and an attempt to overcome our frustration at the injustice and fragility of human life

    the fact that millions or billions follow religions means precious little - truth is not a referendum, and religion is not a parliamentary democracy

    This is what I believe, and if I'm wrong, I will simply face the consequences, as any responsible adult should
    You make a good point by saying "truth is not a referendum", but my point is do you not think why these people believe in what they believe and I believe you answered that by saying "religions are an answer to our feeling of loneliness and helplessness in the vast Universe, and an attempt to overcome our frustration at the injustice and fragility of human life". Again very good points, however isn't that what makes life beautiful that any moment could be our last, I'm not trying to preach but do you not wonder who created the Universe, even if you don't believe in a specific God, does your mind not wonder as to who caused the Big Bang etc.. the fact that we exist as we do, with the ability of free thinking does that not give you the feeling of purpose as stated by William Paley's argument.
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    If you are just talking from a moral viewpoint then its just bad form to mock anyone for their beliefs - its just not polite!

    If you want to scratch the surface a little deeper and look at it from a spiritual viewpoint you open up a whole other can of worms...and most people would rather not look at that.

    Truth is not relative. People may consider it to be relative, they may even insist that it is relative, but that doesn't make it so. Truth is truth.

    Jesus clearly said that he was hated and Christians should not be surprised if they are hated too... Jesus also said that he is the way, and the TRUTH, and the light and that no-one comes to the Father except through Him. You are either going to embrace that truth or get very angry about it.

    This is why Christianity is treated the way it is by the media and others.
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    (Original post by badar12345)
    So I guess under your "ideology" you can be racist as well, you yourself have just said "the only people who may need perhaps some special protection" so you're already discriminating against the masses. For people who follow religion it is not just a "religion" as it appears to the casual observer, it is a way of life, so by mocking how someone worships you are essentially mocking their way of life and that is why so many people find it offensive. You wouldn't mock someone in how they ate or drank to their faces, so why do you feel its acceptable to mock another person on how they live through their religion? Just for a few laughs, instead why not do something constructive?



    You make a good point by saying "truth is not a referendum", but my point is do you not think why these people believe in what they believe and I believe you answered that by saying "religions are an answer to our feeling of loneliness and helplessness in the vast Universe, and an attempt to overcome our frustration at the injustice and fragility of human life". Again very good points, however isn't that what makes life beautiful that any moment could be our last, I'm not trying to preach but do you not wonder who created the Universe, even if you don't believe in a specific God, does your mind not wonder as to who caused the Big Bang etc.. the fact that we exist as we do, with the ability of free thinking does that not give you the feeling of purpose as stated by William Paley's argument.
    mocking people is not necessarily advisable, or polite. It can even be downright tasteless. However, it cannot and should not be prohibited by law.

    Our freedoms are too precious an achievement to be sacrificed to some people's fears and insecurities.

    As to religious beliefs, it is ridiculous on your part to ask me whether I have thought about life, the Universe etc

    It so happens that you are not the only one who may have asked himself some questions, and who tries to lead his life in the best manner possible.

    We all ask ourselves these questions, and we all come to our own results. I have mine : and I (like many, many other people) don't feel the need for any sort of creator or universal supremo.

    You are free to criticize and mock atheists all you want : most of us have a well-developed sense of humour

    Kind regards
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    (Original post by simonbellringer)
    Apology accepted.

    Yes it is unfair that muslims are all tarnished.

    But since when do you hear of Muslims doing good things? You hear of Christian charities such as Christian Aid; I cannot think of a Muslim charity.

    Islam also seems to be somewhat backwards and harsh - they chop thieves' hands off in the Middle East (which is predominately Islam) - backwards!! I agree with a tough punishment but maybe that is a little extreme, though it would depend on the value of the stolen items....
    I know of Muslim charities:Muslim welfare
    Islamic relief
    List of loads of Muslim charities all over the country
    http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/chari...inedonations=0

    I think that in the middle east they let them off the first time then the second time its their hand that is chopped off-but I'm not absolutely certain.
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    (Original post by Dunamis)
    If you are just talking from a moral viewpoint then its just bad form to mock anyone for their beliefs - its just not polite!
    yes, sometimes it may be impolite

    on the other hand, many times mockery can reveal deep flaws in ideologies, religions, regimes

    the basic principle of mockery is to reveal that "the Emperor is naked". That, beneath the rhetoric and solemnity, high-sounding religious principles may be shallow and arbitrary, ceremonies just vacuous rituals, that "holy texts" may make no sense at all , that political and religious authorities may not deserve the respect and awe they are being attributed

    Mockery directed at the strong and powerful is healthy and just.

    Mockery directed at the weak, the poor, the disabled, the bereaved, is totally tasteless.

    Still, our freedom to make fun of, mock, parody is a fundamental part of our civilization.

    And it should stay so.
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    (Original post by MrCarmady)
    religions are ridiculous very often, and so often deserve ridicule.
    of course

    in fact, even atheism can be ridiculous, and could and should be ridiculed if the opportunity arises

    all this waffling about "religions", "stereotypes of religions", "ways of life" "essence of religions" - in order to draw abstract lines and make up categories of what can be mocked and what not, does not deserve the bandwith it uses up

    in fact, it deserves all the mockery it will get
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    (Original post by gagaslilmonsteruk)
    It's not acceptable to poke fun at any religion. Religion is supposed to be sacred and its not there to be taken the **** out of
    As I said, half of the really good jokes are about religion

    the other half are about sex.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    indeed it is, but that is from 2006, this is the latest one I can find.



    As you can see, the countries with the highest number of atheists also have an incredibly high murder rate. these countries are also richer than turkey per capita, thus those murders in turkey could be poverty related, which those european countries can't claim.
    From the top of the list:
    In 2005, 79% of Lithuanians belonged to the Roman Catholic Church.
    Approximately 4.2 million (or 77.2% at the end of 2011) adherents are members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.
    Bulgaria regards itself officially as a secular state. The Constitution guarantees religious freedom, but designates Orthodoxy as a "traditional" religion. A majority of the population (76 per cent) self-identify as Orthodox Christian.
    Romania is a secular state and has no state religion. However, an overwhelming majority of the country's citizens identify themselves as Christians. 86.7% of the country's population identified as Orthodox Christian according to the 2002 census, the vast majority of which belongs to the Romanian Orthodox Church.
    And now the bottom:
    The Czech Republic has one of the least religious populations on Earth. Historically, the Czech people have been characterised as "tolerant and even indifferent towards religion". In the 2011 census, 62.4% of respondents indicated they were agnostic, atheist or irreligious
    (Spain) according to a December 2006 study, 48% of the population declared a belief in a supreme being, while 41% described themselves as atheist or agnostic.
    Germans with no stated religious adherence make up 34.1% of the population
    (Slovenia) Catholics: 53.1%, Atheists: 30.2%
    54% of Austrian citizens responded that "they believe there is a God".
    34% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force".
    8% answered that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, God, or life force".
    The facts speak for themselves.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    so you have morals? do you believe in objective morality?
    Yes I have morals. Religion plays no part at all with them though.

    Objective Morality, I only have a vague understanding of what that's all about, so I don't have a view on that.
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    (Original post by MrCarmady)
    wrong. religion may be sacred to specific people, but freedom of speech is more important than the entitlement which people seem to have with regards to not being offended. also, religions are ridiculous very often, and so often deserve ridicule.
    Hm, if that's the case, if I'm depressed and pissed off with the world, I might as well call my mom a ***** and be done with it?

    Look, if I say you have a big nose as a big as a Big Foot's last dinner, you probably won't care and just look the other way.

    If you say I'm a sorry sucker, I'd look away and think that you're right.

    If certain things are sensitive issues, they just are.

    There's a limit to what things your mouth can say to another person or to yourself! You have the right to speak for yourself and what your opinions are, but don't look down on other people's rights as well.

    On the topic in question, I wouldn't poke around unless I'm poked at. Even so, I have patience... but it can run thin. Yet, I've said what I've said: certain things are just taboo to certain cultures and beliefs. If you're not one of them and you have studied them, you might as well shut up.
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    (Original post by Dukekaki)
    Hm, if that's the case, if I'm depressed and pissed off with the world, I might as well call my mom a ***** and be done with it?

    Look, if I say you have a big nose as a big as a Big Foot's last dinner, you probably won't care and just look the other way.

    If you say I'm a sorry sucker, I'd look away and think that you're right.

    If certain things are sensitive issues, they just are.

    There's a limit to what things your mouth can say to another person or to yourself! You have the right to speak for yourself and what your opinions are, but don't look down on other people's rights as well.

    On the topic in question, I wouldn't poke around unless I'm poked at. Even so, I have patience... but it can run thin. Yet, I've said what I've said: certain things are just taboo to certain cultures and beliefs. If you're not one of them and you have studied them, you might as well shut up.
    you have the right to call your mom a bitch, yes, and in some cases she might deserve it, who knows? if she doesn't, then you shouldn't, but you will face repercussions either way, no doubt. as for religions, yes, they're not all bad, but if I want to say Scientology is an evil corrupt cult for stupid people, or that the Catholic Church is one of the most evil forces in history, then I don't care if either is sacred to you, because I have reasons for saying these things, and discussion of this sort should be encouraged instead of shut down. that doesn't mean I'm right to say those things, but just that I have the right to do so. Bonus points if they're expressed in a funny way.
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    (Original post by MrCarmady)
    you have the right to call your mom a bitch, yes, and in some cases she might deserve it, who knows? if she doesn't, then you shouldn't, but you will face repercussions either way, no doubt. as for religions, yes, they're not all bad, but if I want to say Scientology is an evil corrupt cult for stupid people, or that the Catholic Church is one of the most evil forces in history, then I don't care if either is sacred to you, because I have reasons for saying these things, and discussion of this sort should be encouraged instead of shut down. that doesn't mean I'm right to say those things, but just that I have the right to do so. Bonus points if they're expressed in a funny way.
    Okay. You have a point there.

    Then, in this case, I should say, your bonus point is that you said in a very matter-of-factly rather than "funny". Appreciate your opinion.

    PS: No, my mother doesn't deserve to be called that! It was a bad metaphor (but my reason was: since one doesn't want to live anymore, one technically curse the mother or God himself).
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    ..

    Well, if we wait for hell, what about those people who don't believe in hell? those people will continue to behave in the way they do, and even if you do believe in hell, doesn't mean that will stop you, so capital punishment is there to act as a deterrent and has proven to work in britain in the past.
    There is the death penalty and then there is something so extreme that makes people feel ill. It is a simple example of "Man's inhumanity to Man". The atrocity by the felons should act as the deterrent, no sane person would commit such crimes, those crimes are only committed by psychopaths and madmen. Deterrents have never deterred mad men from murdering and nor have they deterred sane men from murdering as sane people just don't randomly kill!

    For most people who live in areas where atrocious crimes have occurred, they are usually repelled by the actions of the offenders.When they bother to think about how they would feel if it happened to one of their family members, they would never imagine doing it to any innocent person and in such a way, the act is self-deterring.(Brevik is a good example, where after the atrocities the people of Norway became closer diminishing racial and cultural tensions - without him being shot 74times or whatever with a gun.)

    People (of mental stability) only murder when in positions of pressure, grave misunderstanding and necessity. That is why knowledge and understanding and equality are far better deterrents than any death penalty.


    well the punish for rape isn't rape.
    I realise this but I was simply reducing the "eye for an eye" argument to its natural absurdity.

    those were the words of a criminology professor at cambridge (im sure you know more than her) but i think it was the 1800....
    Well that may very well be, but during other periods the death penalty most certainly existed and serious crime rate was much higher.

    Let us take a current example - the USA. Many states in the USA have the death penalty. Some of these states which have the death penalty have the highest murder rates in the US. Florida, for example, who have a violent crime rate of over 600 per hundred thousand people, use the death penalty and up until 2000 regularly used the electric chair - which can be pretty awful ya know. This is current evidence that it is not only and in fact seemingly rarely, that homicide rate is low due to capital punishment. Instead, it would probably seem more due to a number of other reasons like poverty, availability of weapons, poor education, culture, large racial and social divides and so on.

    I don't disagree with the death penalty, I merely think that if it is practised it should be an "instant death" type method, I think the suffering, caused by torture-death methods, is unnecessary in today's society and hugely grotesque.

    Well, that is the golden rule, do on to others as you wish upon yourself.
    If this was taught oppositely to your implications, it would be very good, nurturing and cultivating interpersonal empathy,understanding and togetherness rather than breeding gratuitous inhumanity.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    mocking people is not necessarily advisable, or polite. It can even be downright tasteless. However, it cannot and should not be prohibited by law.

    Our freedoms are too precious an achievement to be sacrificed to some people's fears and insecurities.

    As to religious beliefs, it is ridiculous on your part to ask me whether I have thought about life, the Universe etc

    It so happens that you are not the only one who may have asked himself some questions, and who tries to lead his life in the best manner possible.

    We all ask ourselves these questions, and we all come to our own results. I have mine : and I (like many, many other people) don't feel the need for any sort of creator or universal supremo.

    You are free to criticize and mock atheists all you want : most of us have a well-developed sense of humour

    Kind regards
    I agree with your statement that mocking something should not be prohibited by law, but you've said yourself it can be tasteless and impolite. When I asked if you had thought about the universe etc.. I meant it in a rhetorical sense and didn't intend to patronize you.
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    PC.

    we've had churches knocked down in Britain and converted into mosques. Would that every happen the other way around i wonder? It would be too contreversial. Nobody can say anything about Islam without beign called 'racist' 'islamophobic' exc.

    i've never seen anybody who says anything about Christianity being called 'racist' ever & i'm a Muslim by birth.

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