(Original post by Masoudy)
Yes I am for real, that is what I believe in and your questioning is not affecting my believe.
I didnt mean it to
Islam is built on solid basis (do you want a source for that?) Try to make your debate more objective and intelligent, I asked for a source and you kept saying "read a book on islamic history."
Again, another example of your poor observational and comprehensive skills; i told you that i dont have an internet source. I have been told this by someone who has a degree in islamic history. READ what i am writing to you
I don't want to praise myself, but I have read islamic history books and nothing is wrong with that history, there is something wrong with your mind (yes, being subjective for this point) and if you really want to ask, go ask an islamic scholar, don't just criticise knowledge of others (assuming that you are not a muslim.)
ANOTHER example of your poor observational and comprehensive skills. I already told that i am muslim. Nizari Ismaili Shia branch, which is the most liberal and philosophical branch of islam imo who has a decendant of Ali to interpret the Quran for us
"The man called me ignorant, because he said that it cant racist, since there isnt a race. Did i say it was racist? No, in fact i said that it isnt racist in the thread title"
Thats why I said your thread is misleading. Ok it might not be racist, but it IS discriminatory.
An example of your incorrent accusations. Perhaps you dont quite know what discrimination means; http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/discrimination, i am not unjustly treating anyone based on their religion to any extent, esp since i myself am a muslim. I have engaged in debate with people on this thread and have treated everyone the same. My intial post was nothing but 2 questions. You seem to have a knack of making invalid accusations dont you?
"im not using circular reasoning" can you explain to me what circular reasoning is then?
I have already explained to you why there is nothing wrong with the opening of two of my phrases and have even sent you a link ti what circular reasoning is. Perhaps the question that should be asked is, do YOU know what it means, since YOU are the one who has made an invalid accusation. I have not begun with i am writing to end up with. I have derived a conclusion based on the fact that the Quran has been changed throughout time. And the fact that you claim that i lost the argument based on the opening phrase of a paragraph, is CLASSIC troll behaviour yet again.
"Most prolific western scientific journals dont even involve faith of any kind. They are not atheist" and how do you know this for sure? do you have any evidence from various sources which remain consistant
with what you are saying?
Well, scientific journals seek understanding of the universe. Religion has nothing to do with it. I have yet to see a prolific western science journal that claims that there is no god. Since you are claiming that they are atheist, why dont YOU show me a prolific atheist western science journal. Most well established scientists dont mix their beliefs with their work, Einstein himself believed in God.
"You sound like a stubborn little boy who doesnt know half of islam. It's because people like you that extremism appears, because they follow something without making sure that what they follow is allowed in Islam. Many muslim scholars criticise islam, not that im criticising it, im questioning. If something that someone tells me doesnt add up, im not going to nod like a goat, because that is not how you truly understand something, by getting to the core."
I am 100% against extremism
, I even debate (don't want to praise myself, but whatever) with extremists, I follow Sunni Islam, Shafi'i school of law, and with Sufism. You are being subjective again in this paragraph. No one understands 100% of islam except the holy prophet. I always question my Sheik about what and why should I believe in this and he replied to not most questions, but all questions I asked him, now I am pretty confident with what I believe in and happy to hear the other, opposite believes/thoughts. If you want to understand islam (now assuming that you are muslim) you can read the books of Shafi'i which explains a lot (pm for details.)
I didnt say you were for extremism, you are not reading what i am writing to you properly. Debating with extremists is the most pointless thing. My problem isnt with your understanding of islam, it is with you. You are one of those cry babies who scream "discrimination" whenever people question islam. I have had such discussions with people at high positions in my mosque and none cry like you. They are understanding and explain things in detail. I've had discussions about the unjustness of the concept of hell. I criticise their concepts, to see if there is a flaw, but they respond in kind and one of my imams even told me, that the concept of hell is much debated by muslim scholars. He praised me for criticising, because he said that is how you truly understand islam. So please, dont say that this thread is discriminative, you are someone who cannot take criticism
Now I assume that you don't have a Sheik (or a religious teacher), this is why you ask these questions, I don't get bothered with that, am just happy to answer any misunderstandings with what you believe, again I am assuming that you want to learn (based on what you have said).
I am asking questions, to see people's points of view and to have an intellectual discussion
"You are clearly a stubborn, immature, little boy who knows nothing" nope, I am not. Tell me how is it clear? Have you known me for many years?
Well, i've been showing to you for a while now. You are quick to make invalid claims. You cry, because you cant take criticism. You are not reading what i am writing to you properly. You contradict yourself. You ignore a lot of the points that i am making to you. You seem to be more interested in accusing me and calling me names than actually debating. Your accusations are based on incorrect conclusions. And no i am not going to show you proof for all of them, i have already pointed them out. You can look for them yourself.
"..intellectual debate and discussion and there seems to be nothing intellectual about.." brings some sources please so it can be an intellectual debate, just don't end the debate with "I have read it, but disagree with it"
Read paragraph above. You dont need sources, you need comprehension skills for this one. I understand the pork thing now, but i dont agree with the four wife law. I have already stated why, im not gonna repeat myself
"despite the fact that i have raised a point for every point that you have made (not that im surprised, classic troll behaviour)"
I respect you, but I don't like people who like praising themselves. This is one of YOUR points, you classify negatively. There is a saying that "although the tigers are vicious, their kittens do not harm" meaning although they may seem in a certain perspective, they could be exactly the opposite of what you are thinking them of."
Another completely false claim, this is not praising oneself, it is observation. I have made a point for every point you have made, but you havent. End of.
"Not to mention that all your accusation have turned out to be incorrect and you have failed to raise any valid points and some of the points that you have made are contradictory"
Quote next time, so I can improve myself. People will judge my points, not my opponent
I am not repeating myself. Why dont you actually read what i am writing to you ffs. And dont tell me you have, because you clearly havent, because if you did, you wouldnt be asking me.
Keep going, please don't end this debate here. Bring sources with you in your next reply. I want to see if "you" can make this an intellectual debate worth debating about!