[mel0n]

I think my grandma actually got married at about 14 and her mother at about 12. Because that was their culture

[RamocitoMorales]

(Original post by Miu-Miu)
Agreed. My problem is the glaringly painful hypocrisy. If there are so many peaceful, kind and moderate Muslims: why is there complete silence on this issue? When a bomb goes off in a city centre, they come out of the woodwork to remind us that it's a minority of extremists. That Islam is actually peaceful! One of the most influential men in Islam says sex with children is okay... you could hear a pin drop. It's pathetic.

Yesterday: Girls have boyfriends in the West? HARAM! CORRUPT! INFIDELS!

Today: Hey, we're not saying we want to have sex with schoolchildren... we're just saying we want to marry them and then have sex. Paedophilia is okay if you put a ring on it.

They can do what they want in Saudi Arabia. It's not my business.

[AverageExcellence]

[QUOTE=JongKey;37360124]We have to understand that back then what was acceptable was completely different. There wasn't a problem with marrying a young girl back then, there is now. People used to kill their daughters as they wanted only sons, nobody spoke out on this - obviously now this would cause an outrage. Times change and what becomes socially acceptable changes. What Muhammad PBUH did wasn't considered wrong then and it wasn't against Islam either. Now the views have changed on marrying young girls - that doesn't mean he was against Islam and that doesn't necessarily mean we consider him wrong, it's just now this isn't acceptable.
QUOTE]

Im not arguing in favour of it I agree that its wrong but im just saying what others would say to the question. And yes the norms were different in the prophets day and have clearly changed now. But its not simply a case of social changes since then. But they believe that The prophet was the image of the perfect person. I dont buy that 'girls dont mature as fast as they did back then' considering in the qu'ran muhammad let her be a child and watched her play with dolls. Many muslims would probably agree to the change but im saying why conservative muslims may be against it.

[SEHughes]

All this talk of girls maturing at younger ages in the past - where's the evidence?

[Voleva]

[QUOTE=AverageExcellence;37361263]

(Original post by JongKey)
We have to understand that back then what was acceptable was completely different. There wasn't a problem with marrying a young girl back then, there is now. People used to kill their daughters as they wanted only sons, nobody spoke out on this - obviously now this would cause an outrage. Times change and what becomes socially acceptable changes. What Muhammad PBUH did wasn't considered wrong then and it wasn't against Islam either. Now the views have changed on marrying young girls - that doesn't mean he was against Islam and that doesn't necessarily mean we consider him wrong, it's just now this isn't acceptable.
QUOTE]

Im not arguing in favour of it I agree that its wrong but im just saying what others would say to the question. And yes the norms were different in the prophets day and have clearly changed now. But its not simply a case of social changes since then. But they believe that The prophet was the image of the perfect person. I dont buy that 'girls dont mature as fast as they did back then' considering in the qu'ran muhammad let her be a child and watched her play with dolls. Many muslims would probably agree to the change but im saying why conservative muslims may be against it.

so you basically admit islam is a backward culture. good.

[AverageExcellence]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
No such thing as a conservative/traditionalist Muslim in all honesty................they forget that to get married you need to have reached puberty, and puberty reaches children much later than at the time when the Prophet pbuh got married to her. If you reach puberty at different ages now, doesn't mean what's happened was wrong because the rule's condition behind marriage causes the age of marriage to vary. Regardless people have a choice in Islam to say no to marriage.

What makes you say that? It states in the hadith that muhammad enjoyed her innocence and allowed her to remain a child and live with her parents 3 years after he married her. He enjoyed watching her play with her dolls among other things.

And of course there are 'conservative/traditionalist muslims' such as the taliban and sharia countries - based on the desire to instill islamic principles frown upon by the west. For example the age of marriage and poligamy

[AverageExcellence]

[QUOTE=Voleva;37361302]

(Original post by AverageExcellence)
so you basically admit islam is a backward culture. good.

I havent agreed nor disagreed with it. Ive never been or heard from the people so who am i to denounce their whole way of life from what ive read on the internet?

All i know is that based on Islamic teaching is that marriage should only be allowed if the girl is mentally and physically mature enough to marry and is consenting to the marriage.

If anyone purporting to represent islam suggests anything otherwise then they do not represent the true values of the intended sharia law

[Voleva]

[QUOTE=AverageExcellence;37361390]

(Original post by Voleva)

I havent agreed nor disagreed with it.

you talk about it as being normal because some guy did it 1400 years ago. i wouldnt call that forward.

[ThatPerson]

:O

in 2009, Saudi courts declined to nullify a marriage between a 6-year-old girl and a 58-year-old man.

So pedophilia is legal according the Saudi courts if the 2 people are married? Despite the fact that a 6 year old is not capable of truly giving her consent to marriage.

[de_monies]

(Original post by Miu-Miu)
2. There are zero Muslim protests over this. Z

You've got to either be blind, or selective with your news reading if you don't know what happens if you happen to criticise your gov't in that region. Besides, this is the first I've heard of this. You hardly get a news story and then have a mass protest outside, where you're likely going to be killed...

[Voleva]

(Original post by ThatPerson)
:O

So pedophilia is legal according the Saudi courts if the 2 people are married? Despite the fact that a 6 year old is not capable of truly giving her consent to marriage.

there is no such thing as pedophilia in saudi arabia. at least they dont call it that. men can simply marry women / girls, there are no age restrictions.

[Steevee]

(Original post by Iqbal007)
No such thing as a conservative/traditionalist Muslim in all honesty................they forget that to get married you need to have reached puberty, and puberty reaches children much later than at the time when the Prophet pbuh got married to her. If you reach puberty at different ages now, doesn't mean what's happened was wrong because the rule's condition behind marriage causes the age of marriage to vary. Regardless people have a choice in Islam to say no to marriage.

So say a 9 year old girl had gone through puberty in this day and age, you think she would be ready to consent to marriage?

[Cigarette]

(Original post by JongKey)
We have to understand that back then what was acceptable was completely different. There wasn't a problem with marrying a young girl back then, there is now. People used to kill their daughters as they wanted only sons, nobody spoke out on this - obviously now this would cause an outrage. Times change and what becomes socially acceptable changes. What Muhammad PBUH did wasn't considered wrong then and it wasn't against Islam either. Now the views have changed on marrying young girls - that doesn't mean he was against Islam and that doesn't necessarily mean we consider him wrong, it's just now this isn't acceptable.

You're completely missing the point.

Using cultural relativity to justify Muhammad's actions undermines the Koran altogether. Muhammad was allegedly a Prophet - his actions and words are supposed to be eternal and the truth in all societies, in all era's. You cannot say "Muhammad's actions are right then, but they are wrong now" as this means all other rules and laws of the Koran can be dismissed as irrelevant to contemporary society.

[Cigarette]

(Original post by RamocitoMorales)
They can do what they want in Saudi Arabia. It's not my business.

(Original post by BonjournoDeano)
Can we just leave them alone and focus on ourselves. If it is taking place here then be my guest and send them to jail but its their country, they can do what they wish.

They can do what they want - isn't that the point? 6 year old girls don't want to be married.

I have nothing against Islam; generally I agree with cultural relativity, but this law is violating these children's human rights. How can you not condemn this?

[joey11223]

(Original post by SEHughes)
All this talk of girls maturing at younger ages in the past - where's the evidence?

Well actually it's the exact opposite, girls mature earlier then they used to, even a few generations shows it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ier-grans.html (though this the daily mail, blaming broken homes is ridiculous, obesity causing increasing oestrogen may be a factor though.)

The main cause is a much improved diet then we've had in the past. Obviously not everyone eats healthily, but because we're all well nourished we develop more quickly, though the lowering of the on-set of puberty is more a trend in females not males. There are scientific journals discussing this if you have a look around.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Miu-Miu)
Link - Not the Daily Mail.


"

Things to keep in mind:


1. The Grand Mufti is the highest official of religious law in a Muslim country. This is not a poor country bumpkin waging war against Israel for taking his land. This is a man who has studied his religion for decades amongst other prominent scholars. Is he "misunderstanding" his religion? Okay, I can accept that the Prophet might have married Aisha for political reasons. She might have matured earlier and gone through puberty faster.


That was 7th Century Arabia and those things happened in the East and West. FINE! This, however, is 2012. Little girls do not need to be sex dolls and housewives to elderly Saudi men.


2. There are zero Muslim protests over this. Zero. People were beheaded, embassies were set on fire and entire streets pillaged and looted over a cartoon. The rape of little Muslim girls by adult men? Not a peep. Where is your outrage? Why aren't you screaming at the top of your lungs?



Opinions plz.

Hello Miu-Miu,

My opinion of this is that it is disgusting and sad as well, and I feel very sorry for the girls who are subjugated to this.

I hope that Muslim men and women will take a stand to protect their baby girls.

Peace and God bless you and may God send Muslim people to stand up for the little girls and advocate them growing into womenhood before marriage, and then for them to marry men of closer to their age if they want, and not be sex objects to old men!!!

[S-man10]

I find it a bit ironic that the religion which claims to have the monopoly on truth cannot within themselves agree to what is true and what is not. This thread and hundred of others seem to demonstrate this. no doubt all of TSR muslims will say "don't listen to him", but there are people who will and they will agree and support quite readily.

[RamocitoMorales]

(Original post by Cigarette)
They can do what they want - isn't that the point? 6 year old girls don't want to be married.

6 year old?

The article says 10 or 12. Don't overdramatise the issue by manipulating figures please.

[Mrkingpenguin]

Firstly let's get this clear that physical maturity (puberty) does not mean readiness for marriage. To give an example of this the UK average age for marriage is 28.5 years! (for women), and women usually mature at around 13-17 sexually.

Secondly before you are so suprised about this outragous claim, let's see what else the Saudi Arabian "government" believe about women:

1. They have to have a male guardian regardless of age.

2. Women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions.

3. Women cannot drive (Only country in the world that does this).

4. Most offices, banks, and universities have separate entrances for men and women. -

5. Girls are taught that their primary role is to raise children and take care of the household.

6. Girls do NO sport at school: in london 2012 the saudi team will include no women.


I'm not disagreeing that this (OP'S point) is utterly disgusting, but we should know that this is a country where this is perfectly normal. (Unfortunatly for it's people and humanity in general)

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Steevee)
So say a 9 year old girl had gone through puberty in this day and age, you think she would be ready to consent to marriage?

Nope........but it's also to do with maturity in terms of mentality, the point of the OP is something else. A young child wouldn't do it in present time, things are different.