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Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia: Girls are ready for marriage at 10.

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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Come now, answer this from an Islamic perspective.

    Assuming a girl has reached puberty and gives consent, is it ok for a man to marry her? Because talking from the Quran and Hadith, to my knowledge, the answer is yes. If it is not, then I'd like to see why.
    It's more than that though, you have to be fit of mind to make any consent or judgement in Islam,as with them, thats why things are so different today then back then as today we are brought less in an adult manner and more with having fun and being a child, hence they wouldn't know much so they can't consent as their judgement would be poor.
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    (Original post by Sgt.Incontro)
    Disgusting.

    Any men in any Muslim country with such a relationship with a girl at that age should be tried for paedophelia at the very least.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation Z715e using Student Room App.
    Tried by who? The whole point is it's legal..

    Good on them.
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    (Original post by Transcendence)
    Tried by who? The whole point is it's legal..

    Good on them.
    You think a man should be congratulated for sticking his dick in a 10 year old?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Well, you would say that. It's your opinion.



    Many people have been, and would be perfectly happy for that to happen.
    well i wasnt asking "many people who would have been" i was asking you, seeing as you must have entered this discussion having an opnion on the OP..
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Read my post
    "closest thing to anything sharia related was the Ottoman empire a century ago and even they were far off."

    Yet they also tried to implement some form of Islam, like the Caliphate.

    You can't just use that as the basis for an argument for such a thing, many Muslim's out there don't even trust the Saudi scholars for good reason. In Islam you are 'allowed' from puberty to marry, but that comes with conditions, even though this exists, Muslims decide to marry far later as it's their right to do so.
    Even what you said there is wrong, it can be argued that the current saudi setup (royal family aside) is far closer to sharia than ottomans ever were - they havent setup any secualr institutions like the ottmans did, nor have they legalised homosexuality, like the ottomans did- in contrast to islamic teachings. So their principles of allowing 10 year olds to marry, have sex etc is very much driven by islamic principles.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    It's more than that though, you have to be fit of mind to make any consent or judgement in Islam,as with them, thats why things are so different today then back then as today we are brought less in an adult manner and more with having fun and being a child, hence they wouldn't know much so they can't consent as their judgement would be poor.
    What babble.

    Let me try and get a straight answer from you again.

    Assuming you judge a 9 year old to be mature enough to give consent, is having sex with her ok? So long as you don't hurt her anymore than you would any other virgin girl. Just give me a straight answer. You're doing everything you can to avoid saying yes, whilst avoiding saying no either.
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    (Original post by Miu-Miu)
    Link - Not the Daily Mail.


    "

    Things to keep in mind:


    1. The Grand Mufti is the highest official of religious law in a Muslim country. This is not a poor country bumpkin waging war against Israel for taking his land. This is a man who has studied his religion for decades amongst other prominent scholars. Is he "misunderstanding" his religion? Okay, I can accept that the Prophet might have married Aisha for political reasons. She might have matured earlier and gone through puberty faster.


    That was 7th Century Arabia and those things happened in the East and West. FINE! This, however, is 2012. Little girls do not need to be sex dolls and housewives to elderly Saudi men.


    2. There are zero Muslim protests over this. Zero. People were beheaded, embassies were set on fire and entire streets pillaged and looted over a cartoon. The rape of little Muslim girls by adult men? Not a peep. Where is your outrage? Why aren't you screaming at the top of your lungs?



    Opinions plz.
    "Girls ready for marriage at 12 - Saudi Grand Mufti"

    http://www.arabianbusiness.com/girls...ti-455146.html

    Which is the same as some states in the US, where is the outrage, not even a peep!

    "AN AMERICAN court has lowered the age at which a girl can marry to just 12."

    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/inte...m?id=889042006

    The difference is, the grand mufti has said it, in the west you practice it!

    (Original post by M4LLY)
    Is this for real?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    What babble.

    Let me try and get a straight answer from you again.

    Assuming you judge a 9 year old to be mature enough to give consent, is having sex with her ok? So long as you don't hurt her anymore than you would any other virgin girl. Just give me a straight answer. You're doing everything you can to avoid saying yes, whilst avoiding saying no either.
    "British scholar Colin Turner suggests that such marriages were not seen as improper in historical context, and that individuals in such societies matured at an earlier age than in the modern West"

    Such things were common in that time, just as the cradle of western civilization, men had sex with prepubescent boys in greece..

    may I note:

    pedophile |ˈpedəˌfīl| ( Brit. paedophile)
    noun
    a person who is sexually attracted to children.

    child | ch īld|
    noun ( pl. children |ˈ ch ildrən|)
    a person between birth and puberty or below the legal age of majority.

    adolescent |ˌadlˈesənt|
    adjective
    (of a young person) in the process of developing from a child into an adult. See note at youthful .

    So if you have begun puberty, you're no longer a child.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    "British scholar Colin Turner suggests that such marriages were not seen as improper in historical context, and that individuals in such societies matured at an earlier age than in the modern West"

    Such things where common in that time, just as the cradle of western civilization, men had sex with prepubescent boys in greeks...

    may I note:

    pedophile |ˈpedəˌfīl| ( Brit. paedophile)
    noun
    a person who is sexually attracted to children.

    child | ch īld|
    noun ( pl. children |ˈ ch ildrən|)
    a person between birth and puberty or below the legal age of majority.

    adolescent |ˌadlˈesənt|
    adjective
    (of a young person) in the process of developing from a child into an adult. See note at youthful .
    I've not said they were uncommon. My point is that mayhaps they were not something to aspire to though, not a moral standard we should seek to emulate. You shouldn't be saying 'Oh well, she's ready for breeding with, she's bleeding from the vagina, goes to the market and has been told to say yes.'

    But anyway, I'll ask you then.

    If there is a 9 year old girl, that has reached puberty, that a man deems mature enough to give consent, and that girl gives consent, do you think it's ok for that man to marry and have sex with that girl?
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    People seem to be forgetting that whilst some kids may start puberty at 9, they still look like children.

    Could you get hard over this?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    well i wasnt asking "many people who would have been" i was asking you, seeing as you must have entered this discussion having an opnion on the OP..
    Well, what does it matter? Lots of people have different opinions and preferences. Just because I might have one opinion, its supposed to trump the opinions of everyone else? Just because I'd prefer my sister to do a certain thing, it means that everyone else needs to do it as well?

    Yes, I have an opinion on when I think it is a good time for a person to get married. But since we're talking about the Mufti of Saudi Arabia - someone with very different cultural standards to me - I'd like to remain objective for the sake of this discussion.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I've not said they were uncommon. My point is that mayhaps they were not something to aspire to though, not a moral standard we should seek to emulate. You shouldn't be saying 'Oh well, she's ready for breeding with, she's bleeding from the vagina, goes to the market and has been told to say yes.'

    But anyway, I'll ask you then.

    If there is a 9 year old girl, that has reached puberty, that a man deems mature enough to give consent, and that girl gives consent, do you think it's ok for that man to marry and have sex with that girl?
    A 9 year old of today or a 9 year old in the 7th century arabian desert, who is twice as mature as the girls of our time?
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    A 9 year old of today or a 9 year old in the 7th century arabian desert, who is twice as mature as the girls of our time?
    Twice as mature eh? I'm sure you have some meperical evidence on that fact?

    But I'll ask you again. A girl who has hit puberty, who has consented and who a man judges to be 'mature enough', does her age matter? 9,11,13,15,17, Islamically speaking, it's ok to have sex with and marry any of them?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Well, what does it matter? Lots of people have different opinions and preferences. Just because I might have one opinion, its supposed to trump the opinions of everyone else? Just because I'd prefer my sister to do a certain thing, it means that everyone else needs to do it as well?

    Yes, I have an opinion on when I think it is a good time for a person to get married. But since we're talking about the Mufti of Saudi Arabia - someone with very different cultural standards to me - I'd like to remain objective for the sake of this discussion.


    But the 'Grand Mufti' is a religious position of authority, so hsi judgemnt is one of islamic principle, you are a muslim and so i asked whether you agreed with this principle or not. You clearly have an opinion about girls having sex at 10, or you wouldnt have arrived on this thread, i simply asked what it was - but clearly you are terrified of critisiing an islamic principle on a website, regardless of how mad it is.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Twice as mature eh? I'm sure you have some meperical evidence on that fact?

    But I'll ask you again. A girl who has hit puberty, who has consented and who a man judges to be 'mature enough', does her age matter? 9,11,13,15,17, Islamically speaking, it's ok to have sex with and marry any of them?
    What type of empirical evidence would you require? the duties and experience of a 9 year old of that time equal or surpasses the duties and experience of an 18 year old in britain today, thus resulting in an emotionally and intellectually maturer person.

    Depending on context, either yes or no.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    "Girls ready for marriage at 12 - Saudi Grand Mufti"

    http://www.arabianbusiness.com/girls...ti-455146.html

    Which is the same as some states in the US, where is the outrage, not even a peep!

    "AN AMERICAN court has lowered the age at which a girl can marry to just 12."

    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/inte...m?id=889042006

    The difference is, the grand mufti has said it, in the west you practice it!
    Be realistic, how many do you think get married at such a young age in the west?

    Yeah that's right, pretty much negligible. Whilst on the other side, it's a common occurrence.

    Take the history of both countries into context before jumping to conclusions.

    Finally, how many of those children have a choice of when/who they get married to?

    Hmm....

    It's quite a different picture in the west.
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    (Original post by f1mad)
    Be realistic, how many do you think get married at such a young age in the west?

    Yeah that's right, pretty much negligible. Whilst on the other side, it's a common occurrence.

    Take the history of both countries into context before jumping to conclusions.

    Finally, how many of those children have a choice of when/who they get married to?

    Hmm....

    It's quite a different picture in the west.
    go to the link, there are something like 3 girls in that case alone. what makes you think it would be any higher in saudi, the legal age is about 18 atm.

    how is it any different in the west, the mufti has suggested it, it actually happens in the us.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    go to the link, there are something like 3 girls in that case alone. what makes you think it would be any higher in saudi, the legal age is about 18 atm.

    how is it any different in the west, the mufti has suggested it, it actually happens in the us.
    Again, I said "negligible".

    Get some real statistical data to disprove.

    Whilst, "Saudi Arabia is a signatory of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of a Child, which considers those under the age of 18 as children."

    It is,"...a patriarchal society that applies an austere version of Sunni Islam, currently has no minimum legal age for marriage and fathers are granted guardianship over their daughters, giving them control over who they can marry and when."

    Furthermore, "In 2009 the Justice Minister said that there were plans to regulate the marriages of young girls after a court refused to nullify the marriage of an eight-year-old girl to a man 50 years her senior".

    Source: http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-might-so...115222084.html
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    What type of empirical evidence would you require? the duties and experience of a 9 year old of that time equal or surpasses the duties and experience of an 18 year old in britain today, thus resulting in an emotionally and intellectually maturer person.

    Depending on context, either yes or no.
    Again, your evidence for this? Other than blind conjecture, and evidence again that someone being expected to perform duties is the same thing as general maturity.

    No, no context to this one. Yes or no.
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    Obviously, over there they still think men should be able to do whatever they chose to a girl whatever the age, they need more equality for women.

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