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Feminism and 'the friend zone'. Opinions?

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    Why are you friends with these idiots in the first place? I'm sure i've seen women get friend zoned before. It's just a term used to describe when you cross the invisible line from potential boyfriend to like-a-brother. For some reason if a man and a woman become friends for more than say 6 months without banging, it makes it awkward to bang at a later date.
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    Wow that's an interesting concept- one of my friends is a radical feminist but I'd be very disappointed if she genuinely believes that all men are potential rapists etc.
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    Oh gaaad, these kind of people give feminism a bad name. I would consider myself a feminist, but hell no am as I extreme or as 'radical' as your friends OP.

    I don't think of 'friend-zone' as a sexist term I know plenty of female who've used the term, I myself have been friend-zoned (boo hoo) but your friends have gone past the point of radical and ended up in ridiculous, it's not an offensive term and no you're not in the wrong. But lol at your friends taking to Facebook to argue this out :rolleyes:.
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    Friend Zone: when the stupid ho won't suck you off even though you gave her some tips on her project last week.

    Not at all sexist, no.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Friend Zone: when the stupid ho won't suck you off even though you gave her some tips on her project last week.

    Not at all sexist, no.
    Maybe that's your definition but I think the OP gave a much clearer and less biased one.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    The concept of the friend zone is one in which every male-female social interaction is sexual or potentially sexual in nature until proven otherwise. That's kinda creepy, you have to admit.
    Not really. I met a guy I thought was attractive, cool, funny, etc. I'd very much like to date him. We meet up a few times and it's clear we're not going to be more than friends. I'm very happy to be his friend, even if I'm a little disappointed our relationship won't go further. What's creepy about that? And the whole thing about it being sexist is just silly, it's not a gender-specific concept. I'm a guy and gay, I know plenty of women use the term too.

    (Original post by Kiss)
    I think they just want something to moan about, and they're trying to nit pick everything. But thankfully once they've done that they'll begin to fight and argue in and amongst themselves - that's already happened in certain types of feminist groups eg. some think the slut walk is liberating whilst others think its stupid.

    They also all must hate Scrubs:
    If I'm honest, they hate pretty much anything with even the smallest hint of perceived misogyny. One of them recently posted something along the lines of "****ing hell, I can't watch this TV show I really enjoy any more because they made a sexist joke".

    (Original post by py0alb)
    Friend Zone: when the stupid ho won't suck you off even though you gave her some tips on her project last week.

    Not at all sexist, no.
    That's a very pointed, biased definition. If you highlight something a misogynist says, you can't really be surprised when it's sexist and offensive. However, back in the world of rational decent people, I don't know anyone who defines the 'friend zone' as such.
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    The idea of a friendzone reflects badly on women really. Knowing and trusting someone so much it would be less awkward to sleep with a stranger :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    Maybe that's your definition but I think the OP gave a much clearer and less biased one.
    lol.

    The OP's definition is what guys tell themselves the friend zone means.
    My definition is what it actually means. Guys think that kindness will buy them sex, and then get pissed off when it doesn't, and normally launch into some kind of women-hating tirade.

    Can't you see that the whole concept of a friend zone is built upon deeply mysogynistic assumptions?
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    lol.

    The OP's definition is what guys tell themselves the friend zone means.
    My definition is what it actually means. Guys think that kindness will buy them sex, and then get pissed off when it doesn't, and normally launch into some kind of women-hating tirade.

    Can't you see that the whole concept of a friend zone is built upon deeply mysogynistic assumptions?
    If women respected themselves and demanded a relationship and friendship from men before even the possibility having sex with them, rather than thinking that a man being nice to her means he isn't worth very much and that a misogynistic "player" is better catch, this debate wouldn't be happening.
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    Those friends of yours, they make me want to :facepalm:

    Nice of you to not let that affect your friendship though
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    (Original post by Revd. Mike)
    Not really. I met a guy I thought was attractive, cool, funny, etc. I'd very much like to date him. We meet up a few times and it's clear we're not going to be more than friends. I'm very happy to be his friend, even if I'm a little disappointed our relationship won't go further. What's creepy about that? And the whole thing about it being sexist is just silly, it's not a gender-specific concept. I'm a guy and gay, I know plenty of women use the term too.


    If I'm honest, they hate pretty much anything with even the smallest hint of perceived misogyny. One of them recently posted something along the lines of "****ing hell, I can't watch this TV show I really enjoy any more because they made a sexist joke".


    That's a very pointed, biased definition. If you highlight something a misogynist says, you can't really be surprised when it's sexist and offensive. However, back in the world of rational decent people, I don't know anyone who defines the 'friend zone' as such.

    The friend zone idea explicitly states that developing a platonic friendship with a woman = failure, in fact it suggests that ANY interaction with the opposite sex that doesn't involve you gaining some kind of sexual gratification is some kind of disaster, as if women exist purely for our physical pleasure. Its a disgustingly mysogynist concept. I really can't see how anyone can fail to recognise that.
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    (Original post by TheHansa)
    If women respected themselves and demanded a relationship and friendship from men before even the possibility having sex with them, rather than thinking that a man being nice to her means he isn't worth very much and that a misogynistic "player" is better catch, this debate wouldn't be happening.
    WTF.

    So if a man has sex with a woman before developing a friendship thats ok, but if a woman does the same thing she is "not respecting herself"?

    Are you ****ing serious?

    You sir, are a misogynist. (why do I keep spelling it mysogynist? :rolleyes:)
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    (Original post by totopink)
    Ah, but when I hear the term friend zone I do literally think "when a person decides they want only ever to have friendship with a person". I think that if when you hear it you hear something negative then that reflects on your opinions of those using the term rather than the term itself, which is why I said the term is only offensive if used in an offensive context.
    Okay then, so answer me this question. Do you think that my interpretation of it is a legitimate and widespread usage of the term where it is at the very least a significant minority of people who use it in the way I've talked about even if you in particular don't? I find it very hard to believe that it's not usually interpreted in the terms I've discussed it in, in a predominantly male way.

    (Original post by totopink)
    I have, more than once, had girl friends say something along the lines of "that guy put me in the friend zone", so by behaving as if this term is exclusive to men only then yes, of COURSE you are creating a misogynistic phrase. Which, quite frankly, I don't think it is.
    It doesn't even have to exclusive to be not good, it just has to evoke the thoughts that it's typically to do with men or carry the link to the whole "nice guys finish last" ideology when applied to men. I would maintain that once again looking at just this forum we can plainly see that it is near invariably thought of by men in a more significant capacity than by women, and when it is thought by women doesn't carry the connotations outlined in my first post (I mean even in your rom com example in your first post I personally think it has hints of it).

    (Original post by totopink)
    I think it's a natural human emotion to feel offended if the person you like chooses someone with an awful attitude over you with a good attitude, it doesn't have to have anything to do with entitlement. You can't say that if that experience has happened to someone that they must be self-righteous and think they're entitled. That's just not fair and in most cases, not all, but most, it's simply not the truth.
    So obviously I'm not talking in extremes where guys go round saying "she should be with me not him" but I do think its harmful to perpetuate a standard where guys think they can make better relationship choices.

    (Original post by totopink)
    You can't ban people from describing that situation just because it could be used in a sexist way by someone who was probably sexist to begin with. If that's the case, when does it end? Should we ban men from discussing women at all?
    Banning it would be quite possibly the worst way of dealing with it possible, a collective action in which people stopped using it to stop normalising it and started challenging people using it in dodgy ways would be far preferable. Then again I don't deny that it's a problem on the decline and the connotations are becoming more and more distant with the increase of girls using it. But my main issue with that is that it while it does still decrease the amount of people thinking about these things in a harmful way it does push into hiding those who are still doing so without anyone realising.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    lol.

    The OP's definition is what guys tell themselves the friend zone means.
    My definition is what it actually means. Guys think that kindness will buy them sex, and then get pissed off when it doesn't, and normally launch into some kind of women-hating tirade.

    Can't you see that the whole concept of a friend zone is built upon deeply mysogynistic assumptions?
    Do you not mean; Guys think kindness and friendship is what women want, and that sex will follow. When the reality is that a woman knows if she wants to sleep with you within seconds of meeting you.

    The trouble, of course, is that some women are more than happy to unquestioningly take presents, lifts etc. from guys who are clearly infatuated with them, without making it patently clear they aren't interested in them romantically. It's always the same guys who get friend zoned... the ones who think that if they bribe and capitulate their way into a girls friendship circle will somehow lead to something. The amount of times I have seen girls out with some dweeb whose been buying them drinks all night, only for me or one of my mates to swoop in and steal the prize, is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Do you not mean; Guys think kindness and friendship is what women want, and that sex will follow. When the reality is that a woman knows if she wants to sleep with you within seconds of meeting you.

    The trouble, of course, is that some women are more than happy to unquestioningly take presents, lifts etc. from guys who are clearly infatuated with them, without making it patently clear they aren't interested in them romantically. It's always the same guys who get friend zoned... the ones who think that if they bribe and capitulate their way into a girls friendship circle will somehow lead to something. The amount of times I have seen girls out with some dweeb whose been buying them drinks all night, only for me or one of my mates to swoop in and steal the prize, is ridiculous.
    it's sad but suckers are going to get taken for a ride, that's just life.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    The friend zone idea explicitly states that developing a platonic friendship with a woman = failure, in fact it suggests that ANY interaction with the opposite sex that doesn't involve you gaining some kind of sexual gratification is some kind of disaster, as if women exist purely for our physical pleasure. Its a disgustingly mysogynist concept. I really can't see how anyone can fail to recognise that.
    Erm no. Setting out to have a sexual relationship with someone and ending up being their best friend = failure. Just being friends with a woman does not equal failure. You only fail if your intention was to get your end away and you were rejected. There's nothing mysogynistic about that.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    The concept of the friend zone is one in which every male-female social interaction is sexual or potentially sexual in nature until proven otherwise. That's kinda creepy, you have to admit.

    The mentally well adjusted idea that you can start as friends and then become romantically involved is discarded, and replaced with this pseudorapey idea that women are either up for ****ing or "just" for friends, and thats a bad thing - no-one wants to be in the friend zone, after all. Women are sex objects first, and people second.

    Its funny how people on this thread who are clearly trapped within this sadly limited and limiting way of thinking about social interactions and the language they use to describe them so often even fail to recognise the problem that is so obvious to everyone else.
    I couldn't have put my own views more succinctly than this.
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    it's sad but suckers are going to get taken for a ride, that's just life.
    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Mugs deserve everything they get. Women will chew them up and spit them out until they learn. The amount of girls I know who manage to go on nights out with a fiver, and miraculously come home with a tenner and their cab paid is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    steal the prize.
    Tell me: Are you honestly expecting people to take your opinions on what is and isn't misogyny seriously?
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Tell me: Are you honestly expecting people to take your opinions on what is and isn't misogyny seriously?
    Just because I don't have an estrogen imbalance and talk like you, does not mean my view is any less correct. Like i'm going to waste a single second tailoring my language to fit your PC crap :rofl: I'm guessing instead of being the girls bff, hoping to get laid, you have now graduated to white knight status?

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