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Husband raped wife on wedding night after she declined him sex

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    (Original post by badcheesecrispy)
    how do you know this, have you spent many a night in a newly wedded couples closet?
    Why do u think just cos the guy pointed out that the perpetrator was probs a little annoyed means that he is somehow justifying this act :rolleyes: And I don't know 100% I'm just going by what I've heard lots of people say. Everyone always seems to agree with the majority these days anyway :yy:
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    None of us have any idea whether the man did these things or not. The article doesn't tell us what evidence has been presented. I'm surprised how people are prepared to assume that everything the woman says is true.

    I would want to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion. However my gut reaction is that some of the allegations are untrue or exaggurated. On the one hand, she claims she was so drunk that she passed out during sex. On the other hand, she claims she explained to him "just because I am married I still have the right to say no" and remembers this two years later. To me this sounds unlikely. People don't normally make reasoned statements about their rights while passing in and out of consciousness.
    Actually i know a few girls who are drunk when people try it on, and they do say things like this. Also we cant really judge how drunk she is, when you are drunk you can remember the oddest things and as that probably would have been a particularly scary moment for her, thinking the man she loved and trusted was about to force his dick in her when she didnt want it, is it really any suprise she remembered it?
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    It is truly ****ing terrifying how quickly people are willing to cast aside the ideology of innocent until proven guilty.

    Jesus christ people, show some restraint before organising your witch hunts. You are damning this man based on the biased reporting of a prosecuting statement. It's entirely possible that this man did do what has been said. But that isn't a fact at this point, and none of you have the necessary evidence to decide on that now.

    There's a good chance some of you may end up on a jury one day. And there's also a chance that some of you may end up accused of a crime you didn't commit. If so, I hope for your sakes that the people who decide your fate show more of an open mind.
    When we're on a jury we'll be privy to more information than we are at the moment...

    If a husband raped his wife, well there isn't a middle ground is there. He either raped her or her didn't. If he did, then our comments are justified, as a first-hand reaction. If he didn't, then the article is fabricated on presumption, and so our comments don't apply to him, since they apply to him as a rapist.

    The OP isn't even fully focusing the thread on this one story, he's using it as a springboard to discuss rape in a more general sense. Again, our comments are justified, since they apply to rapists, not accused rapists.
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    (Original post by yothi5)
    I thought it was customary to have sex on your wedding night? She shouldn't have got so drunk on her wedding either. Not defending the man by any means though.
    You know you sound exactly like the people who say "I'm not racist, but I thought black people were usually muggers and rapists" right? You know that, right?
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    On the one hand it's a deplorable crime for which he should be punished for. On the other, as other people have said, it does beg the question why she was so drunk on her wedding night that she didn't want sex? Even if she wasn't used to drinking and her limits that's not exactly an excuse. I'm not a massive drinker but I know when to stop. You want to remember your wedding day for the rest of your life but that can be affected by too much drink. At the end of the day it's expected that husband and wife should consummate their marriage on their wedding night. In years gone by I'm sure it was due to not having sex before marriage but even nowadays it's considered an important and much talked about event. If that happened to me I'd be quite pissed. Again I'm not condoning rape or saying I would but I'd be angry that on the first night of my hypothetical marriage that I would be treated in such a way. You and your husband/wife would just have celebrated your love and commitment to each other but because of that person's lack of control that is somewhat tainted by the refusal of this act of love.
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    (Original post by ArcaneAnna)
    I say this whole story is bull-****e!

    1.) Let me make it clear IF he did what she says he did - yes he's vile and so on....

    2.) I am NOT defending him....but there are a couple of things I'd like to point out...

    a.) If he raped her on their wedding night - who would stay with that man? Have his children? Any sane person would have been out the door on their way to the police. Something is off already in her story.
    She says she was 'scared'. Bull****.

    b.) She was pissed on the wedding night. I have a friend who claims that she was raped while drunk, then has to apologise to everyone for making a scene - she just acts like a drama queeen and when drunk takes things too far and also doesn't remember things quite properly.

    c.) Whats the guys side of the story? This woman might have something against her husband, so what better way to get rid of him than jail?
    (Original post by pshewitt1)
    not necessarily defending him or anything, but **** like the gets thrown about a lot, just because she came up with this story, is there any conclusive proof, and not just her word against his? suing culture and money claims are becoming to big an issue for me not to be sceptical of the story
    (Original post by latasauce)
    Is it fair to instantly condemn this man as a rapist, without any context or evidence - bar the wife's testimony?

    Of course I'm not condoning rape or the like, I'm just somewhat cynical of the story's source.
    (Original post by Phalanges)
    It is truly ****ing terrifying how quickly people are willing to cast aside the ideology of innocent until proven guilty.

    Jesus christ people, show some restraint before organising your witch hunts. You are damning this man based on the biased reporting of a prosecuting statement. It's entirely possible that this man did do what has been said. But that isn't a fact at this point, and none of you have the necessary evidence to decide on that now.

    There's a good chance some of you may end up on a jury one day. And there's also a chance that some of you may end up accused of a crime you didn't commit. If so, I hope for your sakes that the people who decide your fate show more of an open mind.
    (Original post by Phalanges)
    You're never proven innocent, you're simply proven guilty or not. Innocence is the default state. I could accuse you of all kinds of slanderous things, but the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't be your actions unless I provided some evidence. That's how civilised society works, and in my opinion it's something worth getting on a high horse about.
    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    None of us have any idea whether the man did these things or not. The article doesn't tell us what evidence has been presented. I'm surprised how people are prepared to assume that everything the woman says is true.

    I would want to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion. However my gut reaction is that some of the allegations are untrue or exaggurated. On the one hand, she claims she was so drunk that she passed out during sex. On the other hand, she claims she explained to him "just because I am married I still have the right to say no" and remembers this two years later. To me this sounds unlikely. People don't normally make reasoned statements about their rights while passing in and out of consciousness.
    I'd befriend all the posters above. I'd say the posters above are the sensible and logical ones.

    The rest are just I would say exactly as the below:

    (Original post by Phalanges)
    This isn't critical thinking or even discussion, this is mindless mob mentality.
    Agreed.

    (Original post by S-man10)
    but the fact of the matter is that the accused man's actions disgusting and unethical.

    Who knows, as you say, he could be proven innocent, but hey, he was simply "proven" innocent... on the other hand, is he really?
    How do we know if it's a fact that he did do it? What if you were in his situation?

    Well he isn't guilty either is it? What if I say you rapped me in the library and I was drunk at that time and people started to jump all over you accusing you being a rapist, but the ironic thing is, they don't even have any evidence to prove that you actually did it. Would you be happy with this?

    (Original post by hr30)
    Clearly you have no idea about the psychological effects of being in an abusive relationship. For example: he rapes her on her wedding night, it's quite possible that she believed, since his 'attitude changed after the wedding', that it was one time, spur of the moment on his wedding night. She may have stayed with him hoping he would change. After having a child with him she then has the financial implications, her attachment to him emotionally (its possible to love someone who is abusive, don't forget), and the welfare of the children to consider.
    It might happen but at the moment, I'm not buying it.
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    Wow, a lot of people here who I'm guessing aren't married.

    1) No sex on the wedding night is fairly common now. Yes, I am married, and also I have a lot of married friends. When I admitted sheepishly that we were both so exhausted we fell asleep cuddling what I mainly got was chuckles and nods of agreement. Getting married is *tiring*. Emotional rollercoaster and you've been on display for a full day. You have the rest of your life for sex and it's not as though it's the first time for most.

    2) The other thing I got told before my wedding day and refused to believe was that I was going to eat very few of the delicious dishes I was selecting for the wedding breakfast. Tons of people said this very knowingly. I protested I would be FINE, and then they put my delicious starter in front of me and my stomach was churned with excitement and.. yeah. I had to force myself to nibble. The fact wedding dresses are usually very tightly fitted doesn't help here. Brides frequently don't eat much and you're all old enough to know about alcohol on an empty stomach. She wasn't necessarily drinking vast amounts for it to affect her.

    3. Was there some secret line in the article I missed that said she married her husband for money? Is it written in invisible writing? Because while you guys are sulking about how women want you for money, I'm over here being the main breadwinner with my adorable house-husband. Who I don't force sex on because I'm oh, not an *******. According to the BBC, women between 20-29 this year passed males of the same age in salary for the first time (although only by pennies). Maybe you should change the tune?

    4. My husband is adorable and adored. And I've still said no to him for every reason from "tired", "don't feel well", "it's midnight and I have an early train" to "I need to get this done, sorry". He's done the same to me. We're lifelong partners, not an easy way to get sex on demand. If I weren't important to him for reasons other than that I *hope* I'd have found out before I married him!
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    (Original post by newts2k)
    Oh for christ sake woman, you can't take one case and generalise men. Its like me saying all women are gold diggers. I wouldn't rape my wife and I highly doubt most men would defend it. It's funny how a lot of girls are happy to take a lot like money, presents etc and not give anything back toa relationship.
    1) The OP is a guy

    2) He wasn't making any generalisations, he was posting an article

    3) What do presents in relationships have to do with rape? It's as if you're trying to mention "bad" things about the other gender to balance it out. If anything, you're the one making generalisations.
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    absolutely disgusting...


    how dare a women deny her new husband sex on their wedding night
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    It is truly ****ing terrifying how quickly people are willing to cast aside the ideology of innocent until proven guilty.

    Jesus christ people, show some restraint before organising your witch hunts. You are damning this man based on the biased reporting of a prosecuting statement. It's entirely possible that this man did do what has been said. But that isn't a fact at this point, and none of you have the necessary evidence to decide on that now.

    There's a good chance some of you may end up on a jury one day. And there's also a chance that some of you may end up accused of a crime you didn't commit. If so, I hope for your sakes that the people who decide your fate show more of an open mind.

    Most people didn't read it as a prosecuting statement, they read it as a simple story. This thread is more interesting for seeing people's attitudes to rape.

    There have been some (surprisingly, many) much more disturbing statements that assumed the story was true and yet still blamed the woman for it.
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    Her husband is innocent until proven guilty. But it is not right to rape someone if they do not consent. Men/women are not entitled to sex at all if their partner doesn't want it.
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    (Original post by kunoichi)
    Evidently not against rape then are you :rolleyes:
    Well, what sort of woman would refuse sex on her wedding night? The only argument I can think of is that she had sugery down there, and was afraid the stitches may pop. Any other time I completely agree with you, both people need to want sex. At the wedding night, it's just part of the package (and according to a whole bunch of traditions/laws/etc, it's the most important thing that happens during the entire wedding).
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    (Original post by Dragonfly07)
    Most people didn't read it as a prosecuting statement, they read it as a simple story. This thread is more interesting for seeing people's attitudes to rape.

    There have been some (surprisingly, many) much more disturbing statements that assumed the story was true and yet still blamed the woman for it.
    Does that in itself not worry you? Smart people do not comprehend what they are reading and assume something completely different?

    And I'm not condoning the comments you reference. But anyone with a bit of common sense knows they are sick, as you can see by confrontations throughout the thread. And that doesn't excuse the other type of disturbing comments on this thread, which was much more prolific and that nobody had called out until I made my first comment.

    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    When we're on a jury we'll be privy to more information than we are at the moment...

    If a husband raped his wife, well there isn't a middle ground is there. He either raped her or her didn't. If he did, then our comments are justified, as a first-hand reaction. If he didn't, then the article is fabricated on presumption, and so our comments don't apply to him, since they apply to him as a rapist.

    The OP isn't even fully focusing the thread on this one story, he's using it as a springboard to discuss rape in a more general sense. Again, our comments are justified, since they apply to rapists, not accused rapists.
    So you think it's perfectly alright to judge, harangue and condemn a man (which the people I quoted were doing personally, and not in some kind of general sense) based purely on the fact that he might have done something? That is pretty terrifying to me.
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    Does that in itself not worry you? Smart people do not comprehend what they are reading and assume something completely different?

    And I'm not condoning the comments you reference. But anyone with a bit of common sense knows they are sick, as you can see by confrontations throughout the thread. And that doesn't excuse the other type of disturbing comments on this thread, which was much more prolific and that nobody had called out until I made my first comment.
    If this forum had more intelligent and completely unassuming people I would take the same stance as you, but we have a long way to go.

    Why do we even question the validity of people's claims? The answer is in order to identify whether they commited an immoral act or not.

    Now as you can see, many people here can't even tell moral from immoral (I believe this to be as a result of indoctrinated sexist beliefs - I refuse to believe any individual could possibly be as stupid as to genuinely assume it's the woman's fault for being raped in these circumstances).

    I believe the morality subject should be dealt with before we can move to the next stage, because otherwise people would just assume you meant something different to what you actually meant (the stereotype that women couldn't be trusted on their word etc).

    To them, anyone who slightly agrees with them (and by "agree" I mean doesn't state any disagreement) for any reason is further validation for their opinion, because there's no rationality in it. It's simply a "the more people agree with me, the more likely I am to be right".

    We do have a long way to go.
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    (Original post by Phalanges)
    So you think it's perfectly alright to judge, harangue and condemn a man (which the people I quoted were doing personally, and not in some kind of general sense) based purely on the fact that he might have done something? That is pretty terrifying to me.
    Well yes?

    If the guy was standing in front of us, then somebody stood up, shouted "This guy raped his wife on their wedding night" then sat down again, I think the general consensus would be "Prove it" or, because this is the internet, "pics or it didn't happen".

    However, we're on an internet forum which is totally removed from the people in question, so there's no haranguing. Rape needs to be seen to be dealt with harshly, so personally I'd prefer a thread filled with condemning comments rather than "she's probably full of crap". Since we have no association with this man, we can say this without hurting his case or making him feel hounded, but the more the message 'rape isn't acceptable' is repeated, the better it is for society. Arguably people's actions in society are dictated by what they think society does or does not approve of, so the more vehemently rape is opposed, the better.

    If this thread was organising a pitchfork and torch hunt of this man, perhaps a co-ordinated hate-email campaign, then I'd find this terrifying. As it is, it's people making a gut reaction to a one-sided DM story, and I'm not particularly picking up on a 'mob mentality'
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    most likely to be a revenge of the wife after divorce.
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    LAD
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Rape needs to be seen to be dealt with harshly, so personally I'd prefer a thread filled with condemning comments rather than "she's probably full of crap". Since we have no association with this man, we can say this without hurting his case or making him feel hounded, but the more the message 'rape isn't acceptable' is repeated, the better it is for society. Arguably people's actions in society are dictated by what they think society does or does not approve of, so the more vehemently rape is opposed, the better.
    Rape is a very difficult issue. I wouldn't for one second wish to condone rape, but at the same time I don't feel that we as a society should presume innocence for all but some offences. It's one thing to say that rape isn't acceptable, it's quite another to say that a man did commit rape and deserves to be punished, regardless of whether or not he will ever read that sentiment.
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    (Original post by Donald Duck)
    Well, what sort of woman would refuse sex on her wedding night? The only argument I can think of is that she had sugery down there, and was afraid the stitches may pop. Any other time I completely agree with you, both people need to want sex. At the wedding night, it's just part of the package (and according to a whole bunch of traditions/laws/etc, it's the most important thing that happens during the entire wedding).
    i pity your wife.
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    (Original post by popsicles3)
    I swear we are seeing more and more cases like this, it's like we are going backwards instead of forwards, like some (very few!) men seem to have this idea that they are entitled to sex and that no doesn't really mean no. I hope he gets what he deserves.


    If you're gonna neg me at least say why you think i'm wrong? :s
    Six no's and a yes, means yes. (jokes lol)
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