[fastswift]

(Original post by Samurai_Jack)
It is true, as long as women don't understand that they need to acheive an equal amonut of financial control as men through equal hardwork (probably more since women have been out of it so long), equality is just a theory.

Hope your friend has found her 'rich man' by now. As a citizen also from near the Indian subcontinent, this scenario is depressingly familiar.

It is worrying to hear that. Poor guys. It must be very stressful if they have to suppor the whole family.
Is it very common for girls to quit working, hoping that her parents can get her a rich guy?

I have a bf who is the type of guys she wants to marry. She kinda hates me because of that. She thinks I would not be a good housewife, more importantly, I am not Indian, so I don't "deserve" him. One "rich man" off the arranged marriage market for her
Yesterday, she said she couldn't see it (marriage) happening. I have been friends with her for 7 years. She is not the same person I met in school.

My bf doesn't know that she envys me for having him! Dunno how he would react.

[effofex]

(Original post by Samurai_Jack)
It is true, as long as women don't understand that they need to acheive an equal amonut of financial control as men through equal hardwork (probably more since women have been out of it so long), equality is just a theory.

Hope your friend has found her 'rich man' by now. As a citizen also from near the Indian subcontinent, this scenario is depressingly familiar.

I don't think it is familiar at all. Many men still demand a dowry from a woman (i.e. they are definitely not willing to support her or finance her).

I am from the Subcontinent and I would definitely not have time for any woman who intended for me to finance her. It would be a massive insult.

[Samurai_Jack]

(Original post by effofex)
I don't think it is familiar at all. Many men still demand a dowry from a woman (i.e. they are definitely not willing to support her or finance her).

I am from the Subcontinent and I would definitely not have time for any woman who intended for me to finance her. It would be a massive insult.

I know dowry is a major issue but I was referring to the alarming number of women in these areas who are willing to forgo being financially independent and search security in her husband instead.

It's nice that you want a wife who will have ambitions of her own but as far as I can see from my observation (which I admit is limited as I am limited to a certain type of community) most family actually prefers a somewhat subservient daughter-in-law who stays at home and look after the family.

I remember once my grandmother (Dadi, the paternal sort) actually warned my mom that we (me and my siblings) will all become drug addicts because she isn't supervising us all the time and goes to work.

[effofex]

(Original post by Samurai_Jack)
I know dowry is a major issue but I was referring to the alarming number of women in these areas who are willing to forgo being financially independent and search security in her husband instead.

It's nice that you want a wife who will have ambitions of her own but as far as I can see from my observation (which I admit is limited as I am limited to a certain type of community) most family actually prefers a somewhat subservient daughter-in-law who stays at home and look after the family.

I remember once my grandmother (Dadi, the paternal sort) actually warned my mom that we (me and my siblings) will all become drug addicts because she isn't supervising us all the time and goes to work.

What the family say is irrelevant if it is the husband who will be the one actually living with the wife.

Those women who are williing to forgo being financially independent are stupid - especially when there isn't a welfare state to finance their expenditures. Their lack of ambition means there is less competition in the labour market for men too.

[bishbash72]

(Original post by medigirl)
Its not the medicine its the fact that women have fought for equality for years and so many women i know ignore their oppourtunities and want nothing more in life than to be subserviant to a man :/

Looking after children does not equal subservience.

[Samurai_Jack]

(Original post by fastswift)
It is worrying to hear that. Poor guys. It must be very stressful if they have to suppor the whole family.
Is it very common for girls to quit working, hoping that her parents can get her a rich guy?

I have a bf who is the type of guys she wants to marry. She kinda hates me because of that. She thinks I would not be a good housewife, more importantly, I am not Indian, so I don't "deserve" him. One "rich man" off the arranged marriage market for her
Yesterday, she said she couldn't see it (marriage) happening. I have been friends with her for 7 years. She is not the same person I met in school.

My bf doesn't know that she envys me for having him! Dunno how he would react.

Lol, jealousy becomes a horrible shade on some people.

Anyway, the whole marriage as livelihood has decreased in the cities somewhat but in rural areas it's a whole different story (some are forced, some are abused and almost all marriages require, as effofex pointed out, huge amount of dowry just to take place).

Things are actually improving but at times some scenarios actually shocks me. Like last year, when my sister and her friend were applying to States. My sis got into Uni. of Virginia without any scholarship and she is balancing an extremely difficult life of study and work, her friend, however got a full scholarship to Duke University but her parents wanted her to get married to a guy twelve years older than her. After some initial protests she caved in and now spends all her day shopping and in a local college with no credentials. I don't really know how happy she is with her life.

[Samurai_Jack]

(Original post by effofex)
What the family say is irrelevant if it is the husband who will be the one actually living with the wife.

Those women who are williing to forgo being financially independent are stupid - especially when there isn't a welfare state to finance their expenditures. Their lack of ambition means there is less competition in the labour market for men too.

Dude, normally husbands prefer subservient wives too in these part, especially the less educated ones.

Stupid is a harsh word, but yea, it is rather reckless to depend your whole life on someone. What if the guy suddenly becomes redundant, then the whole family collapses. However, thankfully more women are actually coming to the labour market.

[quattro94]

(Original post by medigirl)
Its not the medicine its the fact that women have fought for equality for years and so many women i know ignore their oppourtunities and want nothing more in life than to be subserviant to a man :/

Let people choose what they want to do. Not everyone wants to be a massively successful professional. You can't force it upon them. So long as they have the opportunity to do what they want then all is well.

[fastswift]

(Original post by effofex)
What the family say is irrelevant if it is the husband who will be the one actually living with the wife.

Those women who are williing to forgo being financially independent are stupid - especially when there isn't a welfare state to finance their expenditures. Their lack of ambition means there is less competition in the labour market for men too.

There isn't a welfare sate in India but there IS one here.
My friend is born in the UK. We went to school together. There is quite a sizable proportion of the population who would not work and live on benefits. She and her "future husband" will move back to get benefits. She can glorify it and make it sound like she is giving up work for having a family! It is what I hate to hear. Women who have a job can have a life too, an even better life than some housewives.

[LETSJaM]

(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
Oh, I do love liberals. Such idealists.

Observe;

If women should have the choice to stay at home then equally men should have the choice to stay at home. Then we can join together and skip across rainbows as free money rains from the sky.

No. Nowadays people are expected to support themselves. Men are expected to support themselves, and as equality pushes on, women are too.

Feminism is about equality for all, not the choice to be equal for some.

This. 100% agreed!

<3 x

[effofex]

(Original post by Samurai_Jack)
Lol, jealousy becomes a horrible shade on some people.

Anyway, the whole marriage as livelihood has decreased in the cities somewhat but in rural areas it's a whole different story (some are forced, some are abused and almost all marriages require, as effofex pointed out, huge amount of dowry just to take place).

Things are actually improving but at times some scenarios actually shocks me. Like last year, when my sister and her friend were applying to States. My sis got into Uni. of Virginia without any scholarship and she is balancing an extremely difficult life of study and work, her friend, however got a full scholarship to Duke University but her parents wanted her to get married to a guy twelve years older than her. After some initial protests she caved in and now spends all her day shopping and in a local college with no credentials. I don't really know how happy she is with her life.

Why did her parents want her to be married? Surely they must have realized that her earning power would have been far greater supposing she had continued with her education and got lots of work experience too? If she had more money - it would be better for her and better for her parents.

Also, was the man who was 12 years older coerced into this arrangement as well? (I can't really see what's in it for him either).

Finally, couldn't the woman just continue to study and then work full-time whilst also being married? There's no law which says you have to live with your husband/wife after all.

[effofex]

(Original post by Samurai_Jack)
Dude, normally husbands prefer subservient wives too in these part, especially the less educated ones.

Stupid is a harsh word, but yea, it is rather reckless to depend your whole life on someone. What if the guy suddenly becomes redundant, then the whole family collapses. However, thankfully more women are actually coming to the labour market.

Even if they do prefer subservient wives, this doesn't mean they want wives who bring absolutely no money home. It would be like a landlord/landlady effectively just saying to a tenant that they can just stay for free.

You mention the guy becoming redundant etc. - but what if he simply refuses to pay for any of the woman's expenses? Surely for him it might be quite a culture shock - going from only having to spend on himself to being asked to spend on another person?

[thetobbit]

(Original post by tsr-member)
What? I have never in my life met someone who has said "I don't want a job. I want to marry a rich man. I want to look after kids my whole life". Why says that? What kind of girls are you around if you're the only one who wants to get a job? Getting a job isn't some sort of feat that only strong-minded feminist women can do.

Sorry, I've just never met any woman who would choose to be 100% dependent on someone else.
However I have met women, myself included, who want to have their career and then have a family - at which point I would definitely work either part-time (if the other half is also working part-time) or not at all in order to raise the children well.

Before you say anything about that - I am a feminist. Wanting to raise kids is not an anti-feminist thought. The fact that I am allowed to work if I want to or I can raise children if I want to or I can do both if I want to. ...that's feminism! Having the choice!

Please don't be one of those annoying people that blame men for having it easier than women because, generally, they build their career and women raise a family (which I honestly can't agree with in this century - most family women also have jobs nowadays.) It's all choice. If you want to become a doctor - great! If someone else doesn't want to work and would rather spend the time raising a family - great! That's feminism! That's equality.

I agree with most of what you say.

However, there are women who say this, I have heard them myself.

We can't be ignorant to believe that NO women simply want to get married and have kids and not pursue a career.

You mention thats it's all about choice, do these women not have the same choice?

[pellejema]

(Original post by Yawn11)
Actually, Medicine is a female dominated course.

Don't see how this topic relates to feminism, but that's feminists for you, always looking for something to moan about.

And you clearly don't understand feminism my friend.

[effofex]

(Original post by fastswift)
There isn't a welfare sate in India but there IS one here.
My friend is born in the UK. We went to school together. There is quite a sizable proportion of the population who would not work and live on benefits. She and her "future husband" will move back to get benefits. She can glorify it and make it sound like she is giving up work for having a family! It is what I hate to hear. Women who have a job can have a life too, an even better life than some housewives.

If her future husband is from outside the European Union, then he would not be able to access benefits.

Also, how does she know there is going to be a future husband? What if no man wants to marry someone who is not bringing anything to the table?

[fastswift]

(Original post by effofex)
If her future husband is from outside the European Union, then he would not be able to access benefits.

Also, how does she know there is going to be a future husband? What if no man wants to marry someone who is not bringing anything to the table?

She said she would go down the arranged route Who knows!


It really upset me because she was a different person. We went to a girls grammar school, she used to be ambitious and aspirational. She chose to do economics in Manchester because she wanted to be a banker. Apprently 3 yr of uni has changed her completely. I blame it partly on her being friends with a different group of people.

Now she is accusing me for being racist and saying that I don't understand the Indian culture.
It is like accusing a woman who is married to a black guy to be racist against black people.

[Yawn11]

(Original post by pellejema)
And you clearly don't understand feminism my friend.

[effofex]

(Original post by fastswift)
She said she would go down the arranged route Who knows!


It really upset me because she was a different person. We went to a girls grammar school, she used to be ambitious and aspirational. She chose to do economics in Manchester because she wanted to be a banker. Apprently 3 yr of uni has changed her completely. I blame it partly on her being friends with a different group of people.

Now she is accusing me for being racist and saying that I don't understand the Indian culture.
It is like accusing a woman who is married to a black guy to be racist against black people.

So what happened - were her new friends all members of the Manchester University Future Housewives Society?

What 'Indian culture' is she talking about here? I am from the Subcontinent - I don't remember anything suggesting that women can leech of a man indefinitely.

[enigma1122]

(Original post by fastswift)
It is worrying to hear that. Poor guys. It must be very stressful if they have to suppor the whole family.
Is it very common for girls to quit working, hoping that her parents can get her a rich guy?

I have a bf who is the type of guys she wants to marry. She kinda hates me because of that. She thinks I would not be a good housewife, more importantly, I am not Indian, so I don't "deserve" him. One "rich man" off the arranged marriage market for her
Yesterday, she said she couldn't see it (marriage) happening. I have been friends with her for 7 years. She is not the same person I met in school.

My bf doesn't know that she envys me for having him! Dunno how he would react.

stop stealing the indians!!!! haha

[enigma1122]

(Original post by effofex)
Even if they do prefer subservient wives, this doesn't mean they want wives who bring absolutely no money home. It would be like a landlord/landlady effectively just saying to a tenant that they can just stay for free.

You mention the guy becoming redundant etc. - but what if he simply refuses to pay for any of the woman's expenses? Surely for him it might be quite a culture shock - going from only having to spend on himself to being asked to spend on another person?

When you love someone, having to buy their food, clothes etc.. shouldn't affect you much, especially if they are cooking for you looking after your kids etc and making you happy. As long as they aren't sitting at home watching TV all day while you slave away at work, i don't see the problem.
Its a two way thing.