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What motivates people to vote Labour?

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    @billy - If that's all you're basing your defense on it is incredibly weak. Not only were you specifically talking about the current coalition when making that point, I don't see how the three words "at every decision" implies a general nod to all coalition government in any way whatsoever. Perhaps its because it's late at night I'm not getting it, but more likely you're just trying to scrape together a mitigating argument for your increasingly worrying fascism.

    And good Lord, seeing as you've been convinced of Nigel Farage's credentials by a couple of speeches I would have thought it pretty clear that that's why I therefore knew you'd been convinced of UKIP in the same pathetic way. I say that because, as I've already said, you quite clearly have been convinced of UKIP's ideology. You don't have to say you've been convinced by UKIP - I'm telling you that you have been. It doesn't take a genius to work out what I was saying. What a shame that your allegedly fabulous 24 year old brain that knows so much of the world couldn't work it out.

    Now let's just make one thing clear - if a party in government makes millions of people poor, those millions of people won't vote for it, irrespective of what its constitution says. Fundamentally it could say one thing, but clearly practically it would have done another. That's why, generally, the "underclass" don't vote for the Conservatives, because of what the Tories have done to them in the past. What you're suggesting is ludicrous - Labour plunged the people you mention into poverty, then those people go out and vote for Labour anyway? Is that really what you're saying? It's utterly stupid.

    billydisco, you are a misinformed moron, and whilst you seem to think that being 24 years old automatically makes you right about everything I can assure you that no one else thinks the same. Or, if they hold the same opinions as you after this, they'll have to be quite as dim as you are.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Lack of a Monster Raving Loony Party candidate.
    that reminds me, wtf happened to them? they were totally absent from the london elections
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    How else does it work though? Immediately out of A Levels?

    I'm sick of doing tills and mopping floors, I'll go mine some coal

    Also this is highly relevant,
    (can't actually find link of Mitchell and Webb Look with a mineshaft at the office, so disregard that)
    Well my point is, if you leave school aged 14 to go and mine coal, you have no qualifications and you have experience of coal mining. If anything were to happen to coal mining... how many options for alternative employment do you have?

    Now compare that with someone who gained some general qualifications (not GCSE Coal Mining) who goes into coal mining and then has to transfer to another job. The latter person has much greater general employment prospects.
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    (Original post by pshewitt1)
    Finally a discussion with the opposite side that isn't retarded, thank you!!! I'm not being sarcastic, you have done me a great service :P ,

    Yes I agree some facts are misleading but I basically scoured the internet and found the ones which seemed to match up the most, I'll try and find the links but it definitely is within that region!

    Yes that is a good point, however it surely wasn't by such a large percentage as to be noticeable? On top of this, surely a right wing (capitalist) party would be better at exploiting the most out of events like these in terms of economic gain, I believe DC visited china etc a lot around that time , and probably made Britain a lot more money?(not fact just an idea)

    Onto thatcher..again, your point on undermining unions was her plan, like her I believe they have too much power and at the moment aren't a good idea. I like the fact they stand up for workers rights, minimum pay...but at the moment they take the piss. I must say that while we have the NHS and public schooling I care little for the bridges between rich and poor, I'm sorry it's just my way of thinking, I'm only middle class as well, but personally with how many luxuries our country has, it just doesn't appear to be a problem... If we were american then yes.

    I don't see growth being stunted by the Tories, they did offer quite a large sum to banks to start loaning out money, but you can hardly blame them for being cautious? but yes growth is and always will be the only way out, but until the rest of Europe follows suit, we are semi powerless, unless we go back to our roots in engineering and power :/

    EMA wasn't removed it's just sorted by local councils now, fair enough to the very needy, but they way it was done before in my opinion was scandalous... especially as the parents were already on benefits. Yes the pay freeze wasn't Ideal, but things had to be done to save money, and bear in mind that was only the public sector. You must also consider the younger workers are less likely to have families than older ranges and so need less income anyway, news like that to a parent could render them homeless.

    I don't think it was all that great, but yes, I'm afraid as I'm not part of that era I can't fully understand the difficulty the poor went through, and can only rationalise it with what I see today.

    Yup, that looks bad -_-, I won't even bother with that as I have probably lost...

    I can't agree with you on the tax break part :/ they earned the money, especially if a private sector worker and have entitlement to it, considering they most likely use private schools and healthcare, it's surely stealing by giving it to the poor.


    I never said that. it was simply the way you put it...

    I must say the only reason we disagree is our founding beliefs on how we think society can be better and our political beliefs, so technically we are at a stalemate were further discussion would simply be petty, unless one of us drastically changed the other...which isn't going to happen on a website :L but thank you!
    Thanks! I agree, it's good to see an actual debate on this, and also judgin by how much we're writing I'd say we could publish a book soon :P

    Also, ironically considering I'm a labour man, I'm a chemist, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with something about economics/politics

    Scrap statistics, they can say whatever you like I think.

    Hmmm....Tories make more out of something than a Labour would? Yes I'd agree, the royals would appeal more to the upper classes, I'd expect them to invest more than labour would, and I'd say > investment = > profit.

    And don't forget the trip to Burma! Peaceful revolution? Buy our weapons!

    I'd like to think I had a union supporting me if my boss was being a dick, and I don't agree with exploitation, so I approve of the minimum wage.

    Appreciate the honesty here, I'd imagine that would be a stereotypical Tory attitude? The rich earned their wealth so keep them separate from the poor? I must be quite socialist then? And I know what you mean, it's hard to imagine ACTUAL poverty here in the UK.

    I'm annoyed at their refusal to support Green technology, engineering I guess has sailed, but I'm for borrowing early to boost investment early on, then have a stronger foothold before foreign companies begin competing/we risk our rating dropping from AAA (a saviour for the govt that they kept that)

    Some of my mates received EMA when they already had more money than I did....grrrr....removal of the EMA isn't important for me, but for UK I hope they do target the needy families.

    And fair point about younger ones and their parents, never thought about that

    Oh, and I'm just a first year, so Thatcher was before me too, I've just been scouring google

    I associate the Tories with being the more corrupt, only because who's going to bribe Labour? The public sector? No way, it will be the private sector

    I must have misunderstood then, you said "family is not money" I thought you meant that money should be the only concern.

    And finally yes, nail on the head there, completely contrasting views and I can't imagine either being changed anytime soon. Good banter nonetheless!
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Well my point is, if you leave school aged 14 to go and mine coal, you have no qualifications and you have experience of coal mining. If anything were to happen to coal mining... how many options for alternative employment do you have?

    Now compare that with someone who gained some general qualifications (not GCSE Coal Mining) who goes into coal mining and then has to transfer to another job. The latter person has much greater general employment prospects.
    Haha, yes true point, as an example though, all my part time jobs have been in the same area, coffee shops/restaurants, so...he might just shift to another mine? Maybe branch out into iron ore?
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    Because I'm from the North East and the Tories are determined to destroy our region.
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    Because the conservatives are creating a class divide yet again, surprise surprise :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by keziah_X)
    Because I'm from the North East and the Tories are determined to destroy our region.
    Don't you find it strange that no private companies have decided it would be profitable to manufacture in the North East? (Yes I am aware of the recent steel plant).

    In other words, I am hinting that it was not profitable to do so and perhaps this is why the Tories closed it all down?
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    (Original post by internet tough guy)
    that reminds me, wtf happened to them? they were totally absent from the london elections
    There is a deposit and some level of signatures (is it so many per borough) and the MRLP could not meet both in time to stand.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Well my point is, if you leave school aged 14 to go and mine coal, you have no qualifications and you have experience of coal mining. If anything were to happen to coal mining... how many options for alternative employment do you have?

    Now compare that with someone who gained some general qualifications (not GCSE Coal Mining) who goes into coal mining and then has to transfer to another job. The latter person has much greater general employment prospects.
    Not everyone has the opportunity to gain qualifications. You're so out of touch with reality it's untrue. So many kids in inner city estates barely know their father, come from incredibly unstable backgrounds and go to failing schools. Not everyone can go to university and not everyone can be a doctor.

    I'll say again if binmen went on strike we'd miss them 1000 times more than we would lawyers or bankers.
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    Well you could equally say I could never forgive Margaret Thatcher for what she did to this country etc etc

    That and this:

    'The increase in wealth of this richest 1,000 has been £315bn over the last 15 years. If they were charged capital gains tax on this at the current 28% rate, it would yield £88bn, enough to pay off 70% of the entire deficit. It seems however that Osborne takes the notorious view of the New York heiress, Leonora Helmsley: "Only the little people pay taxes."'

    Are what motivate me to vote Labour.

    Because lets face it there's no real competitive left wing party in this country and anything is better than the tories.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Well my point is, if you leave school aged 14 to go and mine coal, you have no qualifications and you have experience of coal mining. If anything were to happen to coal mining... how many options for alternative employment do you have?

    Now compare that with someone who gained some general qualifications (not GCSE Coal Mining) who goes into coal mining and then has to transfer to another job. The latter person has much greater general employment prospects.
    What jobs? Go and find me these jobs please. Preferably ones in small coal mining villages.

    You really think a miner in the Welsh Valleys can just find another job?
    There are hundreds of graduates out there who can't find jobs, a few GCSEs aren't going to help them!
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    Ok so I'm a novice in politics but am I right in saying that under the conservatives, the rich don't pay the 'right amount of tax' and the amount banks can earn has increased?

    If so, it just doesn't make sense to me. If you are lucky/skilled enough to earn a lot of money, then to need to pay your share.

    Also, with the pay rates of big CEOs, I think they should earn no more than 20 times their average worker (as was suggested by a head of a company). Research suggests that a large amount of pay can actually hinder creativity and decision making (e.g. bankers doing careless things).

    I just wish Labour had David Milliband instead cos Ed has the charisma of a slug. I also wish we had Obama.
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    (Original post by RowingGoose)
    Ok so I'm a novice in politics but am I right in saying that under the conservatives, the rich don't pay the 'right amount of tax' and the amount banks can earn has increased?

    If so, it just doesn't make sense to me. If you are lucky/skilled enough to earn a lot of money, then to need to pay your share.

    Also, with the pay rates of big CEOs, I think they should earn no more than 20 times their average worker (as was suggested by a head of a company). Research suggests that a large amount of pay can actually hinder creativity and decision making (e.g. bankers doing careless things).

    I just wish Labour had David Milliband instead cos Ed has the charisma of a slug. I also wish we had Obama.
    Did you vote in the leadership election? If not please refrain from moaning.
    I could not have faced David, he was more right-wing than Blair was.
    I kindof wish I'd voted for Ed Balls...
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Thanks! I agree, it's good to see an actual debate on this, and also judgin by how much we're writing I'd say we could publish a book soon :P

    Also, ironically considering I'm a labour man, I'm a chemist, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with something about economics/politics

    Scrap statistics, they can say whatever you like I think.

    Hmmm....Tories make more out of something than a Labour would? Yes I'd agree, the royals would appeal more to the upper classes, I'd expect them to invest more than labour would, and I'd say > investment = > profit.

    And don't forget the trip to Burma! Peaceful revolution? Buy our weapons!

    I'd like to think I had a union supporting me if my boss was being a dick, and I don't agree with exploitation, so I approve of the minimum wage.

    Appreciate the honesty here, I'd imagine that would be a stereotypical Tory attitude? The rich earned their wealth so keep them separate from the poor? I must be quite socialist then? And I know what you mean, it's hard to imagine ACTUAL poverty here in the UK.

    I'm annoyed at their refusal to support Green technology, engineering I guess has sailed, but I'm for borrowing early to boost investment early on, then have a stronger foothold before foreign companies begin competing/we risk our rating dropping from AAA (a saviour for the govt that they kept that)

    Some of my mates received EMA when they already had more money than I did....grrrr....removal of the EMA isn't important for me, but for UK I hope they do target the needy families.

    And fair point about younger ones and their parents, never thought about that

    Oh, and I'm just a first year, so Thatcher was before me too, I've just been scouring google

    I associate the Tories with being the more corrupt, only because who's going to bribe Labour? The public sector? No way, it will be the private sector

    I must have misunderstood then, you said "family is not money" I thought you meant that money should be the only concern.

    And finally yes, nail on the head there, completely contrasting views and I can't imagine either being changed anytime soon. Good banter nonetheless!

    Indeed, we could call the 'the inherit ramblings in the form of discussion through common ground of the left and right' :L

    I've studied economics, business, chemistry maths and physics (on a gap year) seriously there isn't much to grasp except long words, but you are right to be sceptical of figures.

    exactly! who doesn't love weapons :L

    yes I like that about unions, but through the jobs I have done, I always refuse to join because generally I put up a better fight for my rights than they can. Obviously though at times you need numbers to back you up. Yes the minimum wage is nice, I'm still confused however as to why it didn't increase inflation and devalue the pound?

    I guess it would be, depends on how narcissistic they actually are :L I wouldn't say keep them separate, but the rich generally did earn their money, and you show socialist views, however seeing as we aren't fighting like bears , I would say you are near to the middle of the spectrum ( which according to the political compass I am -_-) but slightly left and down? and yea thank god we don't live in america :/

    YES this is one point I am infuriated at all parties for, I want to be a nuclear engineer when I'm older and so this is devastating. We need to stop messing around with wind turbines and invest in nuclear power! even the green party is against it, they're idiots!!

    yep likewise just getting all the info on thatcher through here and google, fantastic way to learn -_-

    yes, I guess that is a good point, however Blair was just as bad with this. Far worse than Cameron.. just trying to find what it was...peeridge's!

    and no no no definitely not! haha

    exactly, been a pleasure debating with you!i hope more people will follow our example when discussing!
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    I'm a Green Party supporter myself.

    I know people go for labour because they think that the tories have views like "The rich earned their wealth so keep them separate from the poor?" or there all posh... [[Just used that from the post above me!]]

    I believe that everyone should have equal opportunities.. and with the Tories, they are making education more equal but class divides are starting to happen. [[I've noticed it a lot on this forum to be honest.]] People wanting the poor to move out of london, people wanting the poor to not have homes, people wanting the elderly to not retire... some people have some nasty views... Thinking kicking the disabled out of jobs is a good thing?
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Thanks! I agree, it's good to see an actual debate on this, and also judgin by how much we're writing I'd say we could publish a book soon :P

    Also, ironically considering I'm a labour man, I'm a chemist, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with something about economics/politics

    Scrap statistics, they can say whatever you like I think.

    Hmmm....Tories make more out of something than a Labour would? Yes I'd agree, the royals would appeal more to the upper classes, I'd expect them to invest more than labour would, and I'd say > investment = > profit.

    And don't forget the trip to Burma! Peaceful revolution? Buy our weapons!

    I'd like to think I had a union supporting me if my boss was being a dick, and I don't agree with exploitation, so I approve of the minimum wage.

    Appreciate the honesty here, I'd imagine that would be a stereotypical Tory attitude? The rich earned their wealth so keep them separate from the poor? I must be quite socialist then? And I know what you mean, it's hard to imagine ACTUAL poverty here in the UK.

    I'm annoyed at their refusal to support Green technology, engineering I guess has sailed, but I'm for borrowing early to boost investment early on, then have a stronger foothold before foreign companies begin competing/we risk our rating dropping from AAA (a saviour for the govt that they kept that)

    Some of my mates received EMA when they already had more money than I did....grrrr....removal of the EMA isn't important for me, but for UK I hope they do target the needy families.

    And fair point about younger ones and their parents, never thought about that

    Oh, and I'm just a first year, so Thatcher was before me too, I've just been scouring google

    I associate the Tories with being the more corrupt, only because who's going to bribe Labour? The public sector? No way, it will be the private sector

    I must have misunderstood then, you said "family is not money" I thought you meant that money should be the only concern.

    And finally yes, nail on the head there, completely contrasting views and I can't imagine either being changed anytime soon. Good banter nonetheless!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg

    perhaps we should try Mitchell and Webb's tactic of 'kill all the poor'

    and their take on education?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGA11A340Ck

    just bear in mind I'm kidding around...

    and religion?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRuju...eature=related
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    (Original post by Muscovite)
    Then why did you neg me then?
    Because I'm guessing you do somewhat.
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    Saying you'll never vote labour is a mistake. Whilst you disagree with them now, their policies could change, they could become a more right wing party if thats what you like etc and you would still not vote for them? Whilst I can't see it happening, and agree that they are a poor excuse for a party you shouldn't adopt the "i'll never vote labour" attitude.

    However, they are essentially the same party that messed this country up, perhaps even less competent (if possible) so I agree that it's worrying that they're gaining back support.

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