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    (Original post by amime)
    Actually don't know what you have just said.

    Could you clarify for me?
    Just say that "God" expanded the world every time the population reached a certain number.

    For example -

    1600 - 1 billion people, Earth is 1/7th of current size

    1900 - 5 billion people, Earth is 5/7th of current size

    2012 - 7 billion people, Earth is current size

    2300 - 10 billion people, Earth is 1.5x BIGGER

    2500 - 14 billion people, Earth is 2x bigger.


    How would it be scientifically possible to justify the "increase in Planet size"?
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    Just say that "God" expanded the world every time the population reached a certain number.

    For example -

    1600 - 1 billion people, Earth is 1/7th of current size

    1900 - 5 billion people, Earth is 5/7th of current size

    2012 - 7 billion people, Earth is current size

    2300 - 10 billion people, Earth is 1.5x BIGGER

    2500 - 14 billion people, Earth is 2x bigger.


    How would it be scientifically possible to justify the "increase in Planet size"?

    We're talking about an all powerful god here. One that could work outside to logic and could simply make the planet the size of the current biggest star that is known whilst increasing the size of everything else but so that it is still to scale. Surely gods actions don't need to be justified?

    Alternatively he could've made us the size of ants.
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    (Original post by burning-ape)
    Let's liken the world to a household. Single father, has too many children. When they get old enough, he wants them to leave so he has space for his children and maybe raise some more when he somehow reproduces (he's asexual for the purposes of this example). Suddenly, he decides it's time for one of his kids to leave. So rather than just packing up their stuff, waving them goodbye, and wishing them luck for the future, he tortures them and abuses them in front of the whole family before they leave. He breaks their legs so they can't walk, and he beats them in the chest so it hurts to breathe. But then they're free to go! See ya later, son 'o mine. Have fun in that giant, unknown world out there.

    Why does God let people go through so much pain and suffering when he could just simply let them die painlessly? I consider that malevolent. Society would see that as an abuse father who deserves to go to prison and not fit to have responsibility for his children. How is the God you know any different from the abusive father in the story above?
    (1) Liking God to a father is insane. He is seen as the authority figure and in charge of everything. Let's give him the title of Prime minster as he can do whatever he likes.

    (2) You assume that all the "sons who want to leave" are guilt free and are not "accountable for their actions in their life". What would your reaction be towards a serial killer who has murdered 100 women and is slowly dying of a chronic illness? Would you be sympathetic?
    *However, I do recognize and understand that not all people fall under this category.

    (3) If everyone was to die "painlessly", then why would we go through life WITH PAIN?
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    (Original post by amime)
    We're talking about an all powerful god here. One that could work outside to logic and could simply make the planet the size of the current biggest star that is known whilst increasing the size of everything else but so that it is still to scale. Surely gods actions don't need to be justified?

    Alternatively he could've made us the size of ants.
    So you blame God because humans have decided to reproduce at an extraordinary rate?
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    You are not thinking clearly.
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    The picture is a fail, if you are trying to tackle the seeing is believing God thing then I always think of we're little marble of universes and Aliens are in charge, are Aliens God?

    I think most people believe in god in a more spiritual sense, in that if there is so much suffering and evil, why doesn't God do anything about it? And when we die our energy is expended to be returned to the universe and over millions of years create all sorts of spectacular things with it, so there is life after birth, but there is no life after death, it's final. An analogy I can think of is if you go into the forest, cut down a tree and make paper from it it's just another stage, but when you burn the paper it will no longer exist and even if you contain all the energy the paper is made ie 122g Tree for 122g CO2 + C, you could not make the tree from those element/compound, and if the tree is formed again it will be of another set of compounds but it won't be the same tree.

    One of the biggest mystery is still, how does cells and particles know how to organize itself to form a person or a rock or tree, A.Turing did a bit of study into this and so did many scientist I don't think we quite understood this yet, but it's so fascinating.
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    So you blame God because humans have decided to reproduce at an extraordinary rate?
    No, I don't believe in god, the whole situation was hypothetical.
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    How would scientists explain "the world increases 2x every time the population increases 4x" phnomena?
    In such a world science would be VERY different. If the planet suddenly changed size every so often we'd have actual proof of a God or at least some sort of force that was smart enough to see we need a boost in real estate, and therefore would not need science to explain it.

    However since our world doesn't do that, what you've said really doesn't mean anything.
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    (Original post by amime)
    No, I don't believe in god, the whole situation was hypothetical.
    If you don't believe in God, then why "attack him"?

    How can you "attack" a person whom you know not to exist?
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    Tell me:

    (1) Does "God" create random babies and place it on Earth for someone to find?

    (2) Who is in charge of all the natural resources on Earth, "God" or man?

    (3) Why does "man" choose to kill himself if he really "loves life"?

    (4) Who "murders and slaughters" other people, "man" or God?

    (5) Is "man" not in charge of his mental faculties that he does not know what he is doing? Can "man" not distinguish between "right and wrong"?
    Yes, but as God is supposedly omniscient he knew exactly what everything was going to come to. He knew exactly what decisions every single one of us would make. He should know what we will do and say in every situation. If he knows the future, then surely the future is non-determinate. As an omnipotent being, he should be able to intervene and eliminate suffering from the world. If he can't, then he's not omnipotent, and if he chooses not to, then he's not omni-benevolent.
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    Liking it
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    In such a world science would be VERY different. If the planet suddenly changed size every so often we'd have actual proof of a God or at least some sort of force that was smart enough to see we need a boost in real estate, and therefore would not need science to explain it.

    However since our world doesn't do that, what you've said really doesn't mean anything.
    I didn't have a lot to go on....
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    (Original post by ummm)
    Yes, but as God is supposedly omniscient he knew exactly what everything was going to come to. He knew exactly what decisions every single one of us would make. He should know what we will do and say in every situation. If he knows the future, then surely the future is non-determinate. As an omnipotent being, he should be able to intervene and eliminate suffering from the world. If he can't, then he's not omnipotent, and if he chooses not to, then he's not omni-benevolent.
    So we should be "spoon-fed" everything?

    And why not answer my questions?
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    The picture is very silly.
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    So we should be "spoon-fed" everything?
    I think the point was that if God is unwilling or unable to stop needless suffering then he's not really worthy of worship is he? He's either not all powerful or just a d**k.
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    I think the point was that if God is unwilling or unable to stop needless suffering then he's not really worthy of worship is he? He's either not all powerful or just a d**k.
    What about all the good that he's given to people, should that not be worthy of worship, as you eloquently put it? Does that not demonstrate that he is "all powerful"?
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    What about all the good that he's given to people, should that not be worthy of worship, as you eloquently put it? Does that not demonstrate that he is "all powerful"?
    Sure, if we say he's all powerful then that's great, however it doesn't change the fact that if he is unwilling to help those in need and those who are suffering then he's a terrible being.
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    (1) Let's say for arguments sake, that God is present and is up there in the sky.

    (2) Let us say that he is in charge of everything (omnipotent).


    Now consider this scenario. If there was no disease, no suffering, cancer, murder, starvation, wars (and all the other things that Atheists claim "why does God not prevent this?") tell me what the population of the world would be?

    It sounds callous but stop and think about it. If not one person in the world died from "natural disasters", cancer, starvation, murder etc, would the world be overcrowded? If people are saying TODAY THAT THE WORLD IS OVERCROWDED, imagine if no one suffered or died from an "unnatural death".

    this isn't right - it's not even wrong


    If these things were to keep the population down then they have not worked... all these things are lower than 2000 years ago except the population which is up.

    Wouldn't stopping people getting pregnant be more sensible than making babies born with diseases if you had a perfect means of population control....

    really there's no sense in any of this even if you take god as an assumption
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    If you don't believe in God, then why "attack him"?

    How can you "attack" a person whom you know not to exist?
    Where have I attacked him?

    I've attacked the idea of a personal god, because there is no empirical evidence of one meaning that belief in it is unfounded. However I haven't attacked Him/Her/it.
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    Sure, if we say he's all powerful then that's great, however it doesn't change the fact that if he is unwilling to help those in need and those who are suffering then he's a terrible being.
    Sure, if we say he's all powerful then that's great, however it doesn't change the fact that if he is unwilling to help those in need and those who are suffering then he's a terrible FANTASTIC being.

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