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    (Original post by squishy123)
    How would scientists explain "the world increases 2x every time the population increases 4x" phnomena?
    I was unaware that God is constrained to working in a matter that can be explained by science. Oh...wait a minute...
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    (Original post by Bey Taco)
    Disowning God for being what you decided as a act of evilness to yourself and getting angry at God does not make you a athiest.

    Have you actually thought this one through?
    ummm suggests that they used to believe in God but no longer do. I would say that perhaps the anger came at a time when they did believe and that anger eventually led to becoming an atheist. The anger is no longer there as it's been replaced by a lack of belief.

    You're right, it would be illogical to be angry at something you don't believe in, but I very much doubt that's the case for ummm.
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    (Original post by Bey Taco)
    Does these reasons include science at all? If you are not convinced by science and only science itself and actually have a grudge on God or angry at him then I don't think you can classify yourself as a athiest at all, agnostic would be a good word for you. Consider it.

    You cannot have a grudge on something or be angry at something without believing that they exist. It is like being angry at santa for not getting you what you want then saying that you are then going to believe he simply doesnt exist.
    Umm, of course they include science? But why should they have to be purely scientific? And well, I'm obviously not actually angry at 'god' anymore. I was when I believed in him, but now I'm just angry at the proposal that a God could possibly exist. I think I know if I'm an atheist or not - I'm not an idiot...
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    (Original post by amime)
    Yes he does. The man might THINK that he has a choice but in reality, this would just be an illusion.

    I repeat. If god is all that is said about him, then the mans life would have already been mapped out before our lives have already begun.

    In the case of a 'sinner' God knows this man will sin and be destined for hell fire, yet still creates the man... why?

    "I have complete free will.... my master says so"
    Man knows that guns kill people, yet he still creates them....why?
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    (Original post by ummm)
    Yes, but you asked me the same exact question you asked them, and my answer was exactly the same, so I thought I'd save you the hassle of having to copy out your reply to him again for me.
    That just created a whole lot of new confusion.
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    (Original post by callum9999)
    Let me get this straight. If good stuff happens it's God, but if bad stuff happens it's man? How convenient...
    According to the person I replied to:

    "If bad stuff happens, it's God, but if good stuff happens it's man? How convenient..."

    I then went on to clarify that in Islam, everything (good and bad) is from God yet the choices man makes in life, is of his own doing. e.g: a lung/throat cancer sufferer who has chain smoked for 65 years.
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    (Original post by illusionz)
    Well, no. But then I don't blame the cookie monster when the biscuit tin is empty.
    It's worked well for me in the past....
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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    I was unaware that God is constrained to working in a matter that can be explained by science. Oh...wait a minute...
    You'll have to elaborate.....
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    x
    I think you're not quite understanding the argument. If God exists then he's responsible for good and bad. If God doesn't exist then humans are responsible for good and bad. It's that simple.

    The argument is that if there is a God then he can't be all knowing, powerful AND caring due to the amount of suffering we see in the world. If he were all knowing and powerful then he's wilfully allowing people to suffer unnecessarily.

    As for your smoking analogy, why would God create any form of cancer in the first place? It ONLY causes suffering, nothing good comes from it so why bother spending time creating it in the first place?
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    I think you're not quite understanding the argument. If God exists then he's responsible for good and bad. If God doesn't exist then humans are responsible for good and bad. It's that simple.
    I have made this abundantly clear in previous posts. Why are we revisiting this?

    The argument is that if there is a God then he can't be all knowing, powerful AND caring due to the amount of suffering we see in the world. If he were all knowing and powerful then he's wilfully allowing people to suffer unnecessarily.
    So a few hundred people are sufferers and you disregard the millions of people who are alive and kicking?

    Good logic that.

    As for your smoking analogy, why would God create any form of cancer in the first place? It ONLY causes suffering, nothing good comes from it so why bother spending time creating it in the first place?
    So you disagree that cause should not have an effect?

    i.e: a smoker should not bear the risk of cancer?
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    So a few hundred people are sufferers and you disregard the millions of people who are alive and kicking?
    Uh...there are more than a few hundred people suffering on this planet...

    So you disagree that cause should not have an effect?

    i.e: a smoker should not bear the risk of cancer?
    No cause should have an effect, I'm not denying that. What I was saying is that if God exists and created everything then he consciously created cancer I'd like to know why you think a God would create something that can cause nothing but suffering.

    Why is it possible for a baby to get cancer? What possible use is that to anyone? They've done nothing to deserve it.

    That's the problem atheists have with the idea of a God. If there is a God behind everything then simply looking at the world suggests it's the most twisted and cruel creature to ever exist. Who would possibly want to follow a God who gives kids cancer?
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    Uh...there are more than a few hundred people suffering on this planet...
    Funny you didn't mention that there are more than "millions of people" on this planet...

    No cause should have an effect, I'm not denying that. What I was saying is that if God exists and created everything then he consciously created cancer I'd like to know why you think a God would create something that can cause nothing but suffering.
    So your argument is that something bad for your health should not lead to suffering?

    Why is it possible for a baby to get cancer? What possible use is that to anyone? They've done nothing to deserve it.
    The chances of getting cancer begin even before conception, according to one of the world's leading experts in nutrition. Women's lifestyles before getting pregnant and while carrying their baby have a major impact on whether their child will develop the disease, Professor Ricardo Uauy said.

    Of course they have done nothing to deserve it, but again does that mean that the mother who smokes and drinks on a massive scale should be allowed to produce a healthy offspring?

    Would that not be scientifically baffling?

    That's the problem atheists have with the idea of a God. If there is a God behind everything then simply looking at the world suggests it's the most twisted and cruel creature to ever exist. Who would possibly want to follow a God who gives kids cancer?
    Cancer exists, we all know that yet why do we risk getting cancer by partaking in activities which lead to cancer when we should know better?
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    That just created a whole lot of new confusion.
    Not really. But well done, you managed to completely avoid responding to any of the points I made.
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    (Original post by ummm)
    Not really. But well done, you managed to completely avoid responding to any of the points I made.
    Want to start again?
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    Pathetic
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    (Original post by squishy123)
    Funny you didn't mention that there are more than "millions of people" on this planet...
    Why would I? I was responding directly to what you said.

    So your argument is that something bad for your health should not lead to suffering?
    Nope, never said that. I do find it odd though that the suffering has to be so extreme. Why did God not make it that if you murder you die a slow painful death? Why instead is it simply burning a plant that gets an extreme punishment from the Lord?



    The chances of getting cancer begin even before conception, according to one of the world's leading experts in nutrition. Women's lifestyles before getting pregnant and while carrying their baby have a major impact on whether their child will develop the disease, Professor Ricardo Uauy said.

    Of course they have done nothing to deserve it, but again does that mean that the mother who smokes and drinks on a massive scale should be allowed to produce a healthy offspring?
    You totally ignored my point. If it's the mothers fault, why punish the child? The suffering the mother experiences from having an unhealthy child requires that child to suffer great pain. How is that an example loving God looking after us?
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    Why would I? I was responding directly to what you said.
    I said there were a "few hundred sufferers" in "millions of people".

    You stated that "few hundred" was incorrect yet you neglected to point out that there MORE than "a few million people" as I stated...

    Nope, never said that. I do find it odd though that the suffering has to be so extreme. Why did God not make it that if you murder you die a slow painful death? Why instead is it simply burning a plant that gets an extreme punishment from the Lord?
    Why murder in the first place?
    Why smoke in the first place?

    You totally ignored my point. If it's the mothers fault, why punish the child? The suffering the mother experiences from having an unhealthy child requires that child to suffer great pain. How is that an example loving God looking after us?
    The CHILD was part of the mother. Therefore, the lifestyle choices that the mother made affects the child. You cannot distinguish between the two because they are interconnected.
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    (Original post by gateshipone)
    I never said God is behind the suffering, just that if he exists and he's all powerful then it means he's unwilling to do anything about the suffering that's happening.
    There is an easy answer on this stupid saying u all say. He is not helping cause He let us do as we wish. He left us on this planet somehow alone to test ourselves. Though when you ask His help, if u are loyal, with one way or another He will Answer/help. Its our fault that we are down on this earth and not in Heaven. I dont know how u call it in english, but i remind u of the story of snake and apple.So yeah we cant say unwilling but more of he let the human be responsible for the planet...
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    (Original post by amime)
    Well in this situation.... before this man was even born, God would've known that this man would eventually be born and decide to start smoking and choose whatever path this man has in life.

    If the Abrahamic god of the bible exists then humans do not have any free will despite what it says in the bible/koran etc. Therefore it is Gods fault.
    I believeGod doesnt know the future cause man has free will, he was created after Him right? So yeah the future of our lives lies on our hands along with what is happenning on the Earth . I guessed i answered u. Future is a result of million choices

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