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Bin Laden told followers not to 'waste [their] effort' attacking the UK

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    Listen Pigeon I've had enough of this now. I'll come back and argue with you about the assertion that Islam is against the killing of innocent people later, but this is just going round in circles as you're not taking anything we say on board.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    'All' lol. You mean a tiny minority. A minority so dissatisfied and yet seem to be unable to provide their own peer-reviewed articles explaining the towers could not have collapsed without controlled explosions. Anyway, see my previous post for your further research.
    all that are presented with the evidence. like the architect said, its damming to the country, so im sure some just keep quiet.

    Well, you know what happens when you assume. Did that other guy you posted publish a peer-reviewed article explaining his findings? Can you link it to me, because I'd honestly love to see a credible source proving your claims right. I'm ready to be wrong.
    here are a few

    http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?c...uthorName=Gage


    I don't know what that means.
    read it again


    Actually, I've provided credible evidence. A peer-reviewed article from a respectable journal, and now many others. It is you, it seems, who have failed to provide any credible evidence, just speculation, tenuous evidence, assumptions, your own baseless opinions, and the opinions of a tiny minority of the engineering community, which are irrelevant on their own. Peer-review is where scientific opinions are won, not on conspiracy websites or news interviews.
    you haven't provided evidence that hasn't been debunked.i provided over 100 articles.

    i've provided you the link above.. how about you attack his arguments.
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    (Original post by Banishingboredom)
    Listen Pigeon I've had enough of this now. I'll come back and argue with you about the assertion that Islam is against the killing of innocent people later, but this is just going round in circles as you're not taking anything we say on board.
    i've debunked everything you've said. insulting me is ad hominem, a sure sign you've lost, accept the truth.
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    Pigeon you've debunked nothing. Now fly off and s**t all over someone else's thread please
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    Not convinced, no substantial evidence whatsoever that it was an inside job.

    A couple pages back there was a misconception that the steel structure had to melt to fail?: not the case, the structure weakened due to concentrated heat lowering the yield strength, fracture toughness and introduced thermal stresses. The plane itself plus the culmination of the already impacted floors results in much greater localised loading and the severing of much of the existing structure concentrated the existing loads (removing even a small percent of a supporting area can concentrate stresses much, much more). Once the structure in the area of the fire collapsed, the subsequent floors were at least ten times too weak to prevent further floor collapses. The building's architects claimed to have designed for impact (which it did) but their claim that it could withstand the ensuing fire to an already damaged structure were not true and not substantiated. This kind of prediction is not even possible with today's simulation models and computing power.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    how about you attack the argument. i could say the same about your sources.
    I am attacking your argument. I'm saying you have no argument. You have no credible evidence. I do, and they completely contradict your views. Your 'sources' up there appear to be a huge list of newspaper articles, news interviews, and articles appearing on conspiracy websites. It has no rhyme or reason. You just posted a wall of text without even reading what it was. I actually took the time to select my sources (WHICH ARE PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLES) and even posted the short conclusion to one. My sources were a Haiku compared to your mess. If there are journal articles in that mess that provides evidence for your position, find them and show me. I've done you that courtesy.

    The only reason you posted that was a weak attempt to overwhelm me with a tl:dr fallacy. It's the same thing over and over. I ask you to provide credible evidence, you keep providing crap over and over. That is the sign of someone losing a debate.

    (Original post by King-Panther)

    all that are presented with the evidence. like the architect said, its damming to the country, so im sure some just keep quiet.
    Baseless speculation. No evidence. Typical of conspiracy theories. Next.

    Not peer-reviewed articles. Evidence of nothing. Next.

    (Original post by King-Panther)
    read it again
    Just did. If you're sure there are plenty of journals, post them. As of yet you have not. Next.

    (Original post by King-Panther)
    you haven't provided evidence that hasn't been debunked.i provided over 100 articles.
    Yes I have. I've posted many journal articles providing evidence against your position. You have provided a wall of text containing nothing credible that I can see. Next.

    (Original post by King-Panther)
    i've provided you the link above.. how about you attack his arguments.
    I've already provided a 2008 peer-reviewed article, with its conclusion, stating that the controlled explosion 'hypothesis' (it isn't actually a coherent idea) is a fantasy. Do you have a peer-reviewed article saying a controlled demolition does fit the evidence?
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    Not really sure if it was an inside job myself, but if anyone is wondering why America would do such a thing to their own country, Google: Operation Northwoods.
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    Sometimes, its more than their effort they waste.
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    (Original post by Banishingboredom)
    ...but this is just going round in circles as you're not taking anything we say on board.
    (Original post by f1mad)
    There's nothing to attack.

    It's a circular argument; I'm not going to waste my time.
    You should've realised that when the thread began .

    Don't waste your time.
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    I don't really buy the conspiracy theories flying around but anyone with properly functioning eyes can tell they are not the same person.
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    Good old Blighty
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    a professional can distinguish between a real and fake photo.... but why not give us this chance, they haven't provided any evidence but people like you have just accepted it.

    i wouldn't know how he died, but according the people in the government, he died 10 years ago, what do you have to say about that?
    I have nothing to say about that, as he released video tapes which consider current events, so unless he can predict the future...he was alive
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    Omfg i read this thread and now i just watched 1 hour of 9/11 videos and i need to work **** all of you conspiracy ****s
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    (Original post by Banishingboredom)
    I suppose the moon landing was fake
    Don't even get me started; my friend thinks that. He also thinks that aliens built the pyramids :teehee:

    He has a somewhat compelling argument (on occasion), but at the same time I think he just likes the fantastical elements of alternative explanations.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    "Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...q.iraqtimeline
    Guardian and also 1.2m deaths? Try around 100,000.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    indeed, a lot of articles of both sides.

    Spoiler:
    Show

    ^ Arnaud de Borchgrave (September 11, 2009). "Cynical scenarios still soar". The Washington Times.
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    ^ Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2011). The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden. New York: Ballantine. pp. 109. ISBN 978-1-4000-6659-9.
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    ^ a b c d Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2011). The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden. New York: Ballantine. pp. 92. ISBN 978-1-4000-6659-9.
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    ^ a b "Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7" (PDF). NIST. August 2008. pp. 22–4. Archived from the original on 28 September 2008. Retrieved September 29, 2008.
    ^ Bazant, Zdenek P. and Mathieu Verdure. "Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions" in Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE, Volume 133, Issue 3, pp. 308–319 (March 2007). Bazant and Verdure write, "As generally accepted by the community of specialists in structural mechanics and structural engineering (though not by a few outsiders claiming a conspiracy with planted explosives), the failure scenario was as follows...." (continues with a four-part scenario of progressive structural failure).
    ^ . "FEMA: World Trade Center Building Performance Study". Fema.gov. March 17, 2011. Retrieved May 30, 2011.
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    ^ Bažant, Zdeněk P.; Verdure, Mathieu (March 2007). "Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions". Journal of Engineering Mechanics 133 (3): 308–319. doi:10.1061/(ASCE)0733-9399(2007)133:3(308). Archived from the original on August 9, 2007. Retrieved August 22, 2007. "As generally accepted by the community of specialists in structural mechanics and structural engineering (though not by a few outsiders claiming a conspiracy with planted explosives), the failure scenario was as follows ..."
    ^ Schmitt, Richard (June 23, 2004). "The 9/11 Commission Report; Panel Calls for Single Intelligence Chief". Los Angeles Times.
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    Powell, Michael (September 8, 2006). "The Disbelievers". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 23 July 2010. Retrieved June 13, 2010. "The loose agglomeration known as the ‘9/11 Truth Movement’"
    Barry, Ellen (September 10, 2006). "9/11 Conspiracy Theorists Gather in N.Y.". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 17 June 2009. Retrieved May 30, 2009. "a group known as the 9/11 Truth Movement"
    Hunt, H.E. (November 19, 2008). "The 30 greatest conspiracy theories — part 1". The Daily Telegraph (London). Retrieved May 30, 2009. "A large group of people — collectively called the 9/11 Truth Movement"
    Kay, Jonathan (April 25, 2009). "Richard Gage: 9/11 truther extraordinaire". National Post. Archived from the original on 5 June 2009. Retrieved May 30, 2009. "The ‘9/11 Truth Movement,’ as it is now commonly called" [dead link]
    ^ Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2011). The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden. New York: Ballantine. pp. 93. ISBN 978-1-4000-6659-9.
    ^ Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2011). The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden. New York: Ballantine. pp. 95. ISBN 978-1-4000-6659-9.
    ^ "German Protestors Marked 9/11 by Denouncing "Inside Job," "Reichstag Fire" Weekly Standard September 21, 2010". Weeklystandard.com. September 21, 2010. Archived from the original on 24 September 2010. Retrieved October 15, 2010.
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    ^ Johnson, Ian (September 29, 2003). "Conspiracy Theories about Sept. 11 Get Hearing in Germany". The Wall Street Journal. Archived from the original on January 1, 2005.
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    ^ "Al Qaeda No. 2 Accuses Iran of Spreading 9/11 Conspiracy Rumor". Fox News. April 22, 2008. Retrieved May 30, 2011.
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    ^ Wolf, Jim (September 2, 2006). "U.S rebuts 9/11 homegrown conspiracy theories". Reuters.
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    ^ a b c "Neue Videos vom 11. September aufgetaucht – New videos of September 11 released". Bild. September 10, 2010. Archived from the original on 18 September 2010. Retrieved September 18, 2010. "Es heißt, die Organisation besitzt eine Affinität zu Verschwörungstheorien. [It is said that the organization is sympathetic to conspiracy theories.] ...Freigegeben wurden die Informationen nur, weil das „International Center for 9/11 Studies“ geklagt hatte. [The information was released only because the "International Center for 9/11 Studies" complained.] ...Augenzeugen hatten immer wieder von Explosionen berichtet, bevor die beiden Türme zusammenbrachen. [Eyewitnesses have repeatedly reported explosions before the towers collapsed.] Experten halten diese Theorien für unsinnig. [Experts believe these theories are nonsense.]"
    ^ a b "Neue Videos vom 11. September -New videos of September 11". Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. September 10, 2010. Retrieved September 12, 2010. "Das private „International Center for 9/11 Studies“ hatte erfolgreich auf Herausgabe der Videodokumente geklagt und sie nun auf seinem eigenen Kanal bei Youtube veröffentlicht. [The private "International Center for 9/11 Studies" had successfully sued for release of the videos, and they have now published them on their own channel on Youtube.] Das „National Institute of Standards and Technology“ ... hatte die Videos ... jahrelang nicht freigegeben. [The "National Institute of Standards and Technology" ... had not released the videos for years.] ...Die bislang unbekannten Videos sollen als weitere Beweise für eine Verschwörung rund um den 11. September dienen. [The previously unknown videos are intended to serve as further evidence of a conspiracy surrounding September 11.] ...Eine Vielzahl der nun neu veröffentlichten Videos zeigt Bilder vom WTC7. [Many of the newly released videos show pictures of WTC7.]"
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    ^ "Where were you when ...". Wichita Business Journal. September 6, 2002. Archived from the original on 13 April 2010. Retrieved May 1, 2010.
    ^ "On the ground at the Pentagon on Sept. 11". MSNBC. September 28, 2001. Archived from the original on May 26, 2004. Retrieved May 1, 2010.
    ^ Kelly, Christopher C. (January 11, 2002). "Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities". U.S. Army Medical Department. Archived from the original on August 15, 2002. Retrieved May 7, 2010.
    ^ "The Top September 11 Conspiracy Theories". America.gov. Retrieved July 20, 2009.
    ^ Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2011). The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden. New York: Ballantine. pp. 112. ISBN 978-1-4000-6659-9.
    ^ Dunbar, David; Brad Reagan (2006-08-15). Debunking 9/11 myths: why conspiracy theories can't stand up to the facts. Sterling Publishing Company, Inc.. ISBN 978-1-58816-635-7.
    ^ "September 11 conspiracy theories continue to abound". the Guardian. 2011-09-05. Retrieved 2012-03-15.
    ^ Stahl, Jeremy (2011-09-07). "The Theory vs. the Facts". Slate. ISSN 1091-2339. Retrieved 2012-03-15.
    ^ "US releases 9/11 Pentagon video". BBC News. May 16, 2006.
    ^ a b "JW Obtains September 11 Pentagon Videos". Judicial Watch. Archived from the original on 2 February 2011. Retrieved February 6, 2011.
    ^ "US releases 9/11 Pentagon tape" (Video). BBC News. May 16, 2006. Retrieved May 5, 2011. "At first it's hard to make out the hijacked plane, but if one looks closely at the lower right-hand corner, the blured white blob entering the frame appears to be the nose of the plane, skidding along the ground at high speed before crashing into the Pentagon, and not a missile. That adds to images from a second security camera, ten feet away, which show a white streak in the lower right-hand corner, then the explosion."
    ^ "Video of 9/11 plane hitting Pentagon is released". Associated Press. MSNBC. May 16, 2006. Retrieved May 5, 2011. "The airplane is a thin white blur on the video as it slams into the Pentagon at ground level."
    ^ Markon, Jerry (May 17, 2006). "Videos Released Of Plane Crashing Into Pentagon". The Washington Post. Retrieved May 5, 2011. "In one of the videos, [...] the plane shoots across the screen from the right, a silver speck low to the ground."
    ^ "In pictures: Pentagon crash". BBC News. March 8, 2002. Retrieved May 6, 2011.

    He asked for peer reviewed studies etc, not a list of news reports which do nothing but speculate.
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    Not sure if you guys saw this yet.

    Wired details declassified documents

    Recently declassified documents from the SEAL raid show how out-of-control and worried OBL was about al-Qaida's image. They point out in the article that, ironically, OBL was just as concerned about protecting the lives of innocent muslims as the US is. He emphasized that their main focus should always be killing Americans whenever the opportunity presents itself.

    Some interesting points if you don't feel like reading the whole article:
    -Drone attacks scare the hell out of al-Qaida operatives
    -Iran and OBL never worked together. In fact, al-Qaida had issues with Iran.
    -OBL frequently watched American news channels to see what was being reported. The most interesting part of this to me is that he recognized the biased news channels and focused on ones that weren't as outrageous. Here's a quote from wired:

    Bin Laden wasn’t just a terrorist. He was a narcissist. Obsessed with his image, he dyed his grey beard black before filming propaganda videos. And however much he hated America, he and his deputies were positively obsessed how they came across in American media.

    “We should also look for an American channel that can be close to being unbiased, such as CBS, or other channel that has political motives that make it interested in broadcasting the point of view of al- Mujahidin,” bin Laden wrote shortly before his death. “Then, we can send to the channel the material that we want the Americans to see. You can ask brother Azzam about the channel that you should send the tape to and let me know your opinion and his.”

    “Brother Azzam” is bin Laden’s California-bred (and ex-metalhead) media deputy, Adam Gadahn. Gadahn tracked the press like he worked for Fishbowl DC. Fox News will “die in anger,” he predicted. CNN “seems to be in cooperation with the government more than the others.” And he fell out of love with MSNBC.

    “I used to think that MSNBC channel may be good and neutral a bit,” Gadahn observed, “but is has lately fired two of the most famous journalists — Keith Olberman [sic] and Octavia Nasser [sic] the Lebanese — because they released some statements that were open for argument.” Nasr was actually fired from CNN after seeming to praise Hezbollah. (“It seems she is a Shia,” Gadahn speculated.)

    Bin Laden’s U.S. media diet even got occasionally eggheaded. To refute the idea that the U.S. was on the side of the angels during the Arab Spring, bin Laden suggested reading “the RAND Center publications, especially the books ‘Civil and Democratic Islam,’ and ‘Building Moderate Muslim Networks,’” since the monographs “emphasize that the US’s interests are with secularists and reformists because they are the true allies.”

    All this media obsession was meant to protect al-Qaida’s brand. But the group’s own offshoots kept trashing it. A flunky wrote to bin Laden about the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq: “They said Abu Hamzah is much more bloodthirsty and more enthusiastic about [killing], is tyrannical in his dealings with others, and has no patience for anyone who disagrees with him, etc.” Much easier to attack Fox News than rein in bloodthirsty terrorists who thought they were only following in bin Laden’s footsteps.
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    What's with all the 9/11 conspiracy theories? Seriously: if you were going to engineer a false terrorist attack, wouldn't you make it look slightly more convincing? The only reason that the towers fell was the terrorists got lucky. I find that a lot easier to believe than the alternative, which is that the Illuminati in charge of America (that is, some of the most intelligent and experienced people on the planet with access to the best information) were stupid enough to blow up a building in plain sight of an entire city, and target towers which were specifically designed to prevent that exact occurence from happening.
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    (Original post by thisisnew)
    Guardian and also 1.2m deaths? Try around 100,000.
    I've provided evidence, you've provided non.

    in regards to your other post, the list is full of articles, documentaries, books, ect..

    gog and magog.
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    (Original post by King-Panther)
    I've provided evidence, you've provided non.

    in regards to your other post, the list is full of articles, documentaries, books, ect..

    gog and magog.
    Well first of all, your link is broken and secondly, since when was a quote from the Guardian considered 'evidence'? Only in your deluded world. In the actual article, it quotes the opinion [which in terms of realpolitik, we all know anyway] of a generally anti-Bush banker and as for the number of deaths, it quotes estimates which have been extrapolated and they were carried out by polling organizations. IBC is far my credible and reasonable. If you want to remain credible, I'd stop parroting stupid myths such as the >1m death toll and posting the same pictures you got from 9/11 truther websites in place of your own opinion and argument.

    As for your big copy-pasta list, the vast majority of it is links to news articles and some of the links even oppose your view, such as an article by Jim Hoffman.
 
 
 
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