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Vet dares to criticise Islam and Judaism

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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17966327

    I simply cannot believe these bigots. Why are people so racist?
    Oh yes, somebody has made a factually correct comment about muslims and jews and is therefore racist :rolleyes: STFU. Please explain how on earth there is any racism in that article?
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    (Original post by James82)
    No, religious scholars are the ones who told you to slaughter them that way, the quran, assuming you believe that is the word of god, makes no mention of how to slaughter animals.
    I believe that the word of God was passed down from father to son starting from the prophet moses which included ritual slaughter
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    (Original post by elkana)
    I believe that the word of God was passed down from father to son starting from the prophet moses which included ritual slaughter
    Kosher and halal are both as bad as each other when it comes to the slaughter of animals.
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    Tradition or religion is not justification for archaic practices which negatively affect the welfare of animals.

    It's your opinion that it affects the welfare of animals negatively, I would say otherwise, if Halal meat is done properly the animal i feel is better off

    You are not proposing a rational argument.

    The study only "stands" because you agree with it's findings. You conveniently ignore the fact that it is outdated and people have not been able to replicate its results. You cannot simply dismiss all other conflicting studies when there are significantly more of them, more recent and better conducted. Despite knowing nothing about who conducted these studies or the validity of their findings you ignorantly claim that they are "biased" simply because they do not agree with you own preconceived beliefs.


    I haven't ignored it's old, yes it's old, however it stands at the same level as the report given before due to the evidence submitted coming from organsiation with their own interests hence it would come up as bias.
    To quote what you said earlier:

    "...animals come from a mixture of backgrounds which in many cases live in inhumane conditions and treated badly,..."

    Again, baseless generalisations in an attempt to deride evidence that challenges your own beliefs.
    Yes i said that, however as I stated if it's properly certified halal abbatoir than it would live upto good welfare standard unwise it's not halal, so it can't be constituted as halal food.

    Nor am making baseless generalisations........because there is loads of meat which are sold on the market which provide no background to where the meat came from, only the properly labelled do, otherwise the animals do come a mixture of backgrounds.
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    (Original post by elkana)
    Nice one I approve

    But What does it matter if an animal gets hurt who says it even feels pain more then a plant does
    I'm sorry but are you a ****ing idiot?
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    (Original post by sarahthegemini)
    I'm sorry but are you a ****ing idiot?
    Thank you
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    (Original post by elkana)
    Thank you
    You've just answered my question, thank you
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    According to this article it quite clearly does cause unnecessary suffering, i don't give two stuffs about Islamic or Jewish law if their methods cause unnecessary suffering to the animal they should be banned. Religions should change to accommodate the laws introduced and upheld by our representative democracy not the other way around and as we can see by the article a large proportion of the organizations that provide halal and kosher meat do stun the animals beforehand, the ones that don't should be made to.
    by a democracy? what is that, a bunch of delusional people who think they know what is right for them, no offence nowadays the average voter bares little intelligence, spends their precious time watching rubbish soaps such as eastenders, most people are ignorant of what is happening overseas, they would rather watch sky news, a channel whose agenda is clear, many people despite being for reason actually possess no scientific background/knowledge, they claim to do research, but when asked what literature is it they read, they reply negative, lets speak with honesty here. Just because one ignorant, Islamophobic and Anti-Semetic vet has said something against Religious Slaughter, that does not mean that it is right, one person out of thousands, this vet clearly is a liar, do your research online, you will find the later, if you dare that is.
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    (Original post by onthekeyboard)
    by a democracy? what is that, a bunch of delusional people who think they know what is right for them, no offence nowadays the average voter bares little intelligence, spends their precious time watching rubbish soaps such as eastenders, most people are ignorant of what is happening overseas, they would rather watch sky news, a channel whose agenda is clear, many people despite being for reason actually possess no scientific background/knowledge, they claim to do research, but when asked what literature is it they read, they reply negative, lets speak with honesty here. Just because one ignorant, Islamophobic and Anti-Semetic vet has said something against Religious Slaughter, that does not mean that it is right, one person out of thousands, this vet clearly is a liar, do your research online, you will find the later, if you dare that is.
    First of all he is not a liar nor is there a shred of evidence he harbors any animosity towards either of these religions. He is stating simple facts, slitting an animals throat while still fully conscious causes them more distress than doing it while they are incapacitated. around half of Halal meat producers that are in or ship to the UK now stun the animal, are they all islamaphobic as well? The vet in question is the former president of the British Veterinary Association, i cannot think of a group better qualified to asses if something causes unnecessary suffering to an animal and if a man who headed that organization raises concerns i am inclined to believe they are genuine since they are independent and have no interest in anything other than the welfare of the animals in this case. If you can point me to an independent (that means an organization who has no vested interest in this type of study that could lead them to desire one outcome over another) recognized organization i will happily look over it and possibly alter my post.

    A representative democracy is a system in which people vote for others to represent them on matters to do with the running of their country, as oppose to a direct democracy in which people vote directly on issues. Like it or not that is the system in place in this country and although far from perfect it is the best of a bad bunch.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    It's your opinion that it affects the welfare of animals negatively, I would say otherwise, if Halal meat is done properly the animal i feel is better off
    The problem is that your opinion is based upon limited/no experience working in abattoirs, limited/no experience working on livestock farms, limited/no understanding of meat science and limited/no understanding of animal welfare.

    The sad thing is that you don't know that you don't know and unfortunately that is not a valid basis for an argument.

    I haven't ignored it's old, yes it's old, however it stands at the same level as the report given before due to the evidence submitted coming from organsiation with their own interests hence it would come up as bias.
    As I have said multiple times before multiple, newer, larger, better-performed studies have come to a rather different conclusion. You are letting your pre-conceited bias overshadow your logic.

    You also cannot simply claim that all evidence contrary to your own is biased/corruption/conspiracy when there is no evidence that this is the case. It may make your argument sound more convincing but in reality it isn't.

    Yes i said that, however as I stated if it's properly certified halal abbatoir than it would live upto good welfare standard unwise it's not halal, so it can't be constituted as halal food.

    Nor am making baseless generalisations........because there is loads of meat which are sold on the market which provide no background to where the meat came from, only the properly labelled do, otherwise the animals do come a mixture of backgrounds.
    Due to your own bias it is your opinion that Halal meat has a better welfare standard (based on little or no evidence) and that most conventional meat has a poorer standard (based on little or no evidence), I'm sorry but again that is not a logical basis for an argument.

    You claim that you aren't making baseless generalisations however you have yet to produce a single piece of supporting evidence.

    You need to get a grip.
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    I know this is going to clash with many beliefs but, I became vegetarian because of Halal meat.
    If animals are going to suffer because of a belief that was thought up some hundreds of years ago and be slaughtered without being stunned and many supermarkets will freely allow Halal meat without saying it is, I decided to stop eating meat all together.
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    According to this article it quite clearly does cause unnecessary suffering, i don't give two stuffs about Islamic or Jewish law if their methods cause unnecessary suffering to the animal they should be banned. Religions should change to accommodate the laws introduced and upheld by our representative democracy not the other way around and as we can see by the article a large proportion of the organizations that provide halal and kosher meat do stun the animals beforehand, the ones that don't should be made to.
    Actually my Christian faith is based on my understanding of the Bible and will not change for any man-made piece of legislation. RIP to the 10 Apostles who were martyred by the Romans for disobedience to anti-Christian commands.

    Our laws are determined by representative democracy but my moral code is determined by God's Word. That is the intractable difference.
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    The problem is that your opinion is based upon limited/no experience working in abattoirs, limited/no experience working on livestock farms, limited/no understanding of meat science and limited/no understanding of animal welfare.

    The sad thing is that you don't know that you don't know and unfortunately that is not a valid basis for an argument.

    Well have you worked in a proper Islamic abatoir? Under proper Islamic rules, the abattoir wouldn't have any welfare issues.

    As I have said multiple times before multiple, newer, larger, better-performed studies have come to a rather different conclusion. You are letting your pre-conceited bias overshadow your logic.

    You also cannot simply claim that all evidence contrary to your own is biased/corruption/conspiracy when there is no evidence that this is the case. It may make your argument sound more convincing but in reality it isn't.

    All i'm saying is that there are varying results from a number of reports.......but am I not allowed to look at the impartiality considering the organisations which gave evidence to them.

    Due to your own bias it is your opinion that Halal meat has a better welfare standard (based on little or no evidence) and that most conventional meat has a poorer standard (based on little or no evidence), I'm sorry but again that is not a logical basis for an argument.

    You claim that you aren't making baseless generalisations however you have yet to produce a single piece of supporting evidence.

    You need to get a grip.


    I haven't made a "generalisation", I stated that not all abattoirs are these welfare concerned businesses, some do have welfare issues, caged animals, etc. Which itself contaminates the unlabelled meat market.

    Well halal meat, which has strict conditions doesn't have this caged animal nonsense,etc. The animal in Islam must be looked after well from it's birth right to its slaughter.

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