[Baddream]

I came across this on Twitter and even though the point of it is to ridicule the EDL, I just wanted to know what Christians thought of the quotes from the Bible.



These are the quotes:
Exodus 21:7-11
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. "

John 15:6
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Exodus 21:1-6
2 If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing. 3 If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. 5 But if the servant plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever.

Btw, I didn't start this thread for a religious debate. I genuinely just want to know what Christians make of this.

[Pinkhead]

Not a christian myself, but i think the usual reply to this kind of question is that these verses are from the Old Testament, therefore they do not reflect the teachings of Jesus.
I will say that I have not read the bible, so my reason is probably easily refuted; I just felt like replying to the post with what I have heard as answers when this question was asked previously.

[maturestudy]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
Not a christian myself, but i think the usual reply to this kind of question is that these verses are from the Old Testament, therefore they do not reflect the teachings of Jesus.
I will say that I have not read the bible, so my reason is probably easily refuted; I just felt like replying to the post with what I have heard as answers when this question was asked previously.

Those are not all OT references - not that it matters anyway - it is (purportedly) the same god in the OT and NT. You don't have to have read the whole Bible to understand that if the same, unchanging, all knowing god was condoning and advocating slavery, human sacrifice, genocide, torture and rape there is something very wrong.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Baddream)
John 15:6
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Why does it say "and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned", instead of just "throw them into the fire and burn them"?
It seems to be describing a state of affairs, rather than a command that Christians should go round burning non-Christians. I don't really see what's controversial about it.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

If I were a Christian, I would say that if you read the Bible, you'll see that these are Paul's words rather than God's commands or Jesus' commands. So I don't necessarily have to agree with them.
I don't know how real Christians would feel about taking that stance though.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
That Jesus never said any of those quotes. And that's who I follow.

Out of interest, what do you make of this quote from Jesus:

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Which "Law" and "commands" is he talking about, that everyone has to follow?

[Swanbow]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
Out of interest, what do you make of this quote from Jesus:

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Which "Law" and "commands" is he talking about, that everyone has to follow?

Technically speaking this is, as a Gentile we are not obliged nor expected to fully follow Mosiac law. As long as we follow the Noahide laws we are still respected in the eyes of God as a Righteous Gentile.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Swanbow)
Technically speaking this is, as a Gentile we are not obliged nor expected to fully follow Mosiac law. As long as we follow the Noahide laws we are still respected in the eyes of God as a Righteous Gentile.

But Jesus is talking to his disciples when he says this. Are they not Gentiles too?
(And is that your answer to my question - that it is Mosaic Law he is referring to in this passage?)

[wwelol]

in the biblle - its says u can killl a gay man

so the hypocrisy about the quran is double standards

thou shall not let a homo live

[Swanbow]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
But Jesus is talking to his disciples when he says this. Are they not Gentiles too?
(And is that your answer to my question - that it is Mosaic Law he is referring to in this passage?)

In the wider message his teachings were meant for the world however in the particular passage he was probably speaking to Jews. I think as a person, Jesus wanted to reform Judaism and never really knew his teachings would become so widespread so he didn't really make it clear whether he intended for all people to adopt Jewish law or not. It's fun to speculate though.
(I didn't really answer your question tbh, just interjected, but yeah it was probably Mosaic law or one of the other prophets)

[T-Toe]

The Bible was written relative to their culture.

Had the Bible been written now it'd be a very different book.

The Bible was written by man so there will be inevitably flaws. I find it ridiculous that some religious people abide to everything a story book tells them to.

[Gofre]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
That Jesus never said any of those quotes. And that's who I follow.

[sarahlabrosse]

Also not a christian, but...
Firstly, these are not 'Laws' these are quotes from the bible.

Secondly, most modern scholars recignise that old testiment texts such as Exodus, are not meant to be taken literally - they have meaning beyond what is obvious, which may not come become clear through just these quotes - although, its easily recognisable all the way through, Liek the two creation storys in Genises?

Finally, John, is thought to be the least historically accurate gospel, that has been edited and addapted by an evangelist to meet the needs of a community - a long tiome after Jesus died, until which point, any material was passed down via an oral tradition - we all know how a two minuite game of chinease whisperrs can reform a saying, so add that to the fact material is purposefully changed, and you baisically can be pretty certain that we can Dismiss Johns quote.

[wateva]

what is bible book? i thought jk stopped harry potter?

[The Socktor]

(four minutes in)

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Gofre)

?????????

[Okashira]

(Original post by Baddream)
I came across this on Twitter and even though the point of it is to ridicule the EDL, I just wanted to know what Christians thought of the quotes from the Bible.



These are the quotes:
Exodus 21:7-11
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. "

John 15:6
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Exodus 21:1-6
2 If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing. 3 If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. 5 But if the servant plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever.

Btw, I didn't start this thread for a religious debate. I genuinely just want to know what Christians make of this.

Let me ask this question, did these laws exist in the beginning? Did God give us the commandments when He created Adam and Eve? The answer of course is no. Yet everything changed once sin entered the world. Fast forward to the giving of the Law, these laws that are mentioned are simply a way for governing man's own hard heart. God didn't want slavery, but men wanted it. So God issued a way for slavery to be done, without the harming of men and women. If God simply said "There will be no slavery", Israel would have just rebelled. Of course they rebelled anyway.

As for Paul's comments about women teaching men, it was probably stated this way to cut out the chance of seduction and temptations of that nature. He never said women shouldn't teach other women or children. Only that it would be better if women didn't teach men. For instance, let's say a man began teaching the wrong thing in the church. It would be easier for other men who know the truth, to stand up to the one who's teaching the wrong thing. Yet let's say a beautiful woman was teaching the wrong thing. It would be harder for the men to stand up to her. Paul wanted to cut that down.

[Gofre]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
?????????

It's a popular internet meme used to express utter confusion or disbelief in response to something bizarre or stupid.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Swanbow)
In the wider message his teachings were meant for the world however in the particular passage he was probably speaking to Jews.

But what the passage says is that he said this to his disciples. If he meant it for the Jews, why not say it to the Jews?

I think as a person, Jesus wanted to reform Judaism and never really knew his teachings would become so widespread so he didn't really make it clear whether he intended for all people to adopt Jewish law or not. It's fun to speculate though.

Personally, I don't really understand why he'd only want a select few people to abide by some particular law. If those laws are suitable for one race of people, why wouldn't they be suitable for others?

[Swanbow]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
But what the passage says is that he said this to his disciples. If he meant it for the Jews, why not say it to the Jews?

Personally, I don't really understand why he'd only want a select few people to abide by some particular law. If those laws are suitable for one race of people, why wouldn't they be suitable for others?

Well his disciples were all Jewish, and if you were directing a sermon on Judaism which is what the passage is then you would haven't to give a mention that it is directed at Jews, it's pretty self explanatory.

It all leads down the concept of Jews being God's Chosen people. As the chosen people they have more stricter rules to follow, where as everyone else generally get's an easier time, a weird idea but yeah. These set of rules are a direct mandate from God and only to be that of the Jews. If Jesus was preaching to an Ethiopian or Samaritan he wouldn't ask them to become Jews and follow the entire old testament, conversion to the Jewish faith has never really be encouraged that much, but he would probably just tell them to obey the Noahide laws and have faith in himself and the father.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Swanbow)
Well his disciples were all Jewish, and if you were directing a sermon on Judaism which is what the passage is then you would haven't to give a mention that it is directed at Jews, it's pretty self explanatory.

It all leads down the concept of Jews being God's Chosen people. As the chosen people they have more stricter rules to follow, where as everyone else generally get's an easier time, a weird idea but yeah. These set of rules are a direct mandate from God and only to be that of the Jews. If Jesus was preaching to an Ethiopian or Samaritan he wouldn't ask them to become Jews and follow the entire old testament, conversion to the Jewish faith has never really be encouraged that much, but he would probably just tell them to obey the Noahide laws and have faith in himself and the father.

Are you talking about Jewish people, as in people who are descended from some particular bloodline and have some particular heritage, or do you mean people who believe in the religion of Judaism?