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Christians: Do you believe in loss of salvation?

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    (Original post by Okashira)
    Can salvation be loss? No one can take salvation from anyone, but, you can give up your salvation. The Scripture says that no one and nothing can take a person out of God's hand, but it never says that same person can't jump out of God's hand.

    Salvation is lost the very moment a Christian thinks he can do something to earn it. This is called falling from grace. If we could earn God's grace, it's no longer grace, but simply debt. Something God owes us. God owes us nothing (except eternal seperation, and punishment for our sins), and the second we think we can earn Heaven by what we do, we fall from grace.



    Sinning willfully means continuing to live after the desire of our bodies. In other words even though we know the reason why Jesus came, we still try to justify our body's desires. For example, if we have intimate relations with everyone our eyes desire, and then justify them by saying "God created us this way, to lust", then we justified the sin. In our eyes, it is not a sin, and there is no sacrifice for something we don't see as sin. Of course, according to God's standard, it is sin, which means it is missing the mark of His standard. (We were created in His image, so the standard we have is a mirror of His own)
    When we become a Christian, we are a new creation (i.e. we receive the Spirit). Surely this is irreversible and that if you are displaying such things as what you talk about then you never received in the first place? Otherwise, the significance of the Spirit is heavily weakened which I don't think is right. Remember the parable of the Seed Sower. My personal belief is that only the 'good soil' involves salvation and that the other three were never true converts.
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    Absolutely you can lose salvation. I'm not saying this is a result of 'Sinning too much' but of you leaving the faith.

    Jesus will forgive yes, but that's IF YOU REPENT.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    (Original post by imasupercoolgeek)
    Absolutely you can lose salvation. I'm not saying this is a result of 'Sinning too much' but of you leaving the faith.

    Jesus will forgive yes, but that's IF YOU REPENT.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    But you haven't answered my question of how someone can receive the Holy Spirit and be a new creation and then lose it again!
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    Christians believe in fake Jesus looooooooooooooooool. Christianity is just a rip off. - - - - of Islam.


    Christians believe JESUS had a son lol. how can God have a son? how did that happen Christians. oh yeah you cannot tell me lool
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    (Original post by dreahxo)
    He washed away ALL our sins but just because you are forgiven, doesn't mean you should carry on sinning.
    yeah right. Jesus isn't GOD. he cannot wash away anything..you're deluded.

    Islam is the only religion with common sense on the matter. Islam hasn't been changed, nor will ever change. Christianity has been re-written hundreds of times. Islam will reign over Christianity in the future and if so, then Why isn't your Christian God doing anything?

    ...Because Islam is the correct religion.
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    (Original post by Dagnabbit)
    But you haven't answered my question of how someone can receive the Holy Spirit and be a new creation and then lose it again!
    By simply leaving the faith because it gets too hard or they are tempted by the world.. Jesus said it:

    A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. 6 Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
    “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

    One can receive the Holy Spirit however when temptation and trial comes their way, they can leave the faith.
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    (Original post by Zim_)
    Christians believe in fake Jesus looooooooooooooooool. Christianity is just a rip off. - - - - of Islam.


    Christians believe JESUS had a son lol. how can God have a son? how did that happen Christians. oh yeah you cannot tell me lool
    This is not a thread for debating Christianity vs Islam. Please take these kinds of posts elsewhere if you don't want to discuss this topic.


    (Original post by imasupercoolgeek)
    By simply leaving the faith because it gets too hard or they are tempted by the world.. Jesus said it:

    A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. 6 Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
    “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

    One can receive the Holy Spirit however when temptation and trial comes their way, they can leave the faith.
    I like this parable and I don't believe it implies you can lose salvation. Sure, the 2nd and 3rd types hear the word and appear to trust in the Lord on the outside but the parable never says that these are people who receive the Spirit and truly trust in Jesus as their Saviour.

    It is unfortunate that this topic divides Christians so much these days but I do feel that, in consulting God's word to find the answer, we find out a lot more about God's character in His gift of Salvation even if we do not find an answer to our original question.

    The important thing imho is that we make sure that we ourselves are saved and continue to ask ourselves questions like 'Do I really worship God with my whole heart?' to make sure we are really making the most of our Christian journey.
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    (Original post by Dagnabbit)
    This is not a thread for debating Christianity vs Islam. Please take these kinds of posts elsewhere if you don't want to discuss this topic.




    I like this parable and I don't believe it implies you can lose salvation. Sure, the 2nd and 3rd types hear the word and appear to trust in the Lord on the outside but the parable never says that these are people who receive the Spirit and truly trust in Jesus as their Saviour.

    It is unfortunate that this topic divides Christians so much these days but I do feel that, in consulting God's word to find the answer, we find out a lot more about God's character in His gift of Salvation even if we do not find an answer to our original question.

    The important thing imho is that we make sure that we ourselves are saved and continue to ask ourselves questions like 'Do I really worship God with my whole heart?' to make sure we are really making the most of our Christian journey.
    Yes, i totally agree with you..I believe Christians should stop have debates about theology and start focusing on their own salvation and preaching the gospel.. if you want to know further about whether someone can lose their salvation, you can watch this video.. brilliant..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djyw6j8oU80
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    (Original post by Zim_)
    Christians believe in fake Jesus looooooooooooooooool. Christianity is just a rip off. - - - - of Islam.
    Christianity pre-dates Islam by six centuries.
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    Yes you can lose your salvation and you can regain it again once it is lost, that is if you truly believe in the Lord and repent. Good night and God Bless.
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    (Original post by Dagnabbit)
    Again, I believe that if there is a 'Christian' who suddenly becomes an adulterer or starts dedicating their life to other sinful acts, I would be led to believe that perhaps they were never a Christian in the first place. If the Holy Spirit is in you, then you are a new Creation and the Spirit will help you become more like Christ.
    no true Scotsman much?

    people who have immense faith in christ still go on to sin badly. for example priests that go on to molest kids, nobody can argue that somebody who dedicates their life to the church like a priest does't truly believe in christ

    and if the Holy Spirit is helping you lead a sinless life, isn't that kind of defeating the point? if having the holy spirit in you stops you from sinning, doesn't that eliminate free will? if you still have free will then you can still sin, and if you can still sin surely you could do something bad enough to lose salvation.
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    (Original post by Dagnabbit)
    When we become a Christian, we are a new creation (i.e. we receive the Spirit). Surely this is irreversible and that if you are displaying such things as what you talk about then you never received in the first place? Otherwise, the significance of the Spirit is heavily weakened which I don't think is right. Remember the parable of the Seed Sower. My personal belief is that only the 'good soil' involves salvation and that the other three were never true converts.
    You're right, we're definitely a new creation! However our bodies are yet to be redeemed. In that parable of the sower, there was one other ground where the seed did take root. That was the ground where there were weeds growing up with it. I wonder is it possible for a born again Christian, to walk away from Christ, because they fell in love with this world? Perhaps they don't lose their salvation, but they will lose rewards. I'll continue to look into this.
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    One last point I'd like to make is that Christ died once and rose again once. This, to me, represents a parallel in the life of the Christian dying once to their former life and rising again into new life once.



    Also, a further question. Surely, if you believe in losing and regaining salvation, how does this work? You are saying that, while I've typed all this, I could, in theory, have gained and lost my salvation 10 (or 20 or 3567 etc.) times? That doesn't seem reasonable to me.
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    (Original post by imasupercoolgeek)

    ...focusing on their own salvation
    Does Matthew 7:21-23 not say anything to you?

    You are trying to make it out as though Salvation is a process which it certainly isn't. Salvation is not something you can earn.

    If Paul focused on " earning his own Salvation" instead of converting millions into placing their trust in the finished, redemptive work of the cross, where would we be sitting today?

    Salvation is not something you have to try and earn. You trust in Jesus' finished redemptive work on the cross, the shedding of His precious blood and His death burial and resurrection for your justification. It's that simple.

    and preaching the gospel..
    You are going to have a hard time with God for deceiving people with a false gospel if you don't know what the true gospel is. The Bible describes the gospel as the "power of God onto Salvation". It's the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (see Corinthians)

    The Bible says that if you ever preach the wrong gospel message, deviating anyway from the one presented in the Bible, you shall be accursed.

    "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel; which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians1:6-9)

    This is not something to be taken lightly.

    Are you sure you understand and share the correct gospel message?

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/D...her_gospel.htm


    if you want to know further about whether someone can lose their salvation, you can watch this video.. brilliant..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djyw6j8oU80
    Ok, I watched the first few minutes of that video, and had to stop.

    The guy is twisting the meaning of 1 Timothy 1:19 straight from the off, trying to interpret it to say you can lose your Salvation. He took the verse out of context.

    Let's examine the verse within the context;

    "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." (1 Timothy1:18-20)

    Hymaneus and Alexander, have put away a good consciense concerning their faith, making shipwreck. Interpreting this as loss of Salvation for a born again believer is just wild to say the least.

    The claim seems even more ridicoulous when you compare the verse against John 3:16, John 3:15, John 3:18, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 11:25-26, Ephesians 2:8-9, Galatians 3:26, and tonnes upon tonnes of other Scriptures. For instance 1 Corinthians 5:5 reads;

    "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."(1 Corinthians 5:5)

    This is concerning a man who took fornication to another level by having sexual relations with his step mother. Yet Paul, who probably knew a bit more about the gospel than Tim Conway or any of us for that matter, said that this person would be "saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

    Now do you see how by comparing 1 Timothy 1:19 with the verse above, we can clearly see that if those two men were saved (which is very questionable, since there is no evidence for that in the passage), they did not lose their Salvation?

    This is why Jesus commanded us to search the Scriptures. We should always interpret Scriptures with Scriptures. It's not something you can shake off, or say - that doesn't matter. No. As Christians it is our duty.

    "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39)

    Tim Conway is a false prophet.

    Anyone who tries to add or take away from the Good News of Jesus Christ is. Period.

    Let no man ever lure you away from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."(2Corinthians 11:3)

    I had a little search for him on the internet, and my fears were confirmed.

    How can you preach the gospel to multitudes, when Jesus Himself doesn't agree with you concerning how to obtain everlasting life?(John 3:16, John 3:15, John 3:18, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 11:25-26)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2EG8fTYcU

    The guy is sickening. Please for the sake of your own eternity, stop listening to his sermons. In these last days guys like him, Paul Washer, Ray Comfort and others will be flooding the world with increased intensity. We must be prepared. We must let the truth of God's word shine.

    Christ be with you and God bless.
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    (Original post by imasupercoolgeek)
    Absolutely you can lose salvation. I'm not saying this is a result of 'Sinning too much' but of you leaving the faith.

    Jesus will forgive yes, but that's IF YOU REPENT.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    There is no such thing as leaving the faith, for a born again believer.

    If you are born again, you will never leave. It's that simple.

    1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

    Although I know you're not an atheist, have a read here. It's a good article.

    http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.co...christian.html

    and here;
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Belie...ible_study.htm

    Christ be with you.
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    no true Scotsman much?

    people who have immense faith in christ still go on to sin badly. for example priests that go on to molest kids, nobody can argue that somebody who dedicates their life to the church like a priest does't truly believe in christ

    and if the Holy Spirit is helping you lead a sinless life, isn't that kind of defeating the point? if having the holy spirit in you stops you from sinning, doesn't that eliminate free will? if you still have free will then you can still sin, and if you can still sin surely you could do something bad enough to lose salvation.
    I don't know who you are, but your misunderstanding of Scriptures is somewhat concerning.

    nobody can argue that somebody who dedicates their life to the church like a priest does't truly believe in christ
    You can devote your life to church, preach about God to all nations, go on 21 thousand missions to Africa, sell all your possesions and give the money to poor, pray 24 times a day, hardly ever sin and donate your organs to an enemy in need, and still find yourself plunged to the lake of fire.

    This is serious stuff.

    People in Matthew 7:21-23 found that out the hard way.

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

    Lord you should let us into heaven, because we have done this, done that, we devoted our lives to you, we did so many wonderful things in Your name.

    Jesus' answer is simple;

    Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    All their works are as filthy rags in the eyes of the Lord. (Isaiah 64:6)

    "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind,"

    They rested in their own righteousness, instead of getting cleansed in the precious blood of Christ and resting in His righteousness, by faith, and faith alone.

    They did not do the will of the Father, which is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. (John 6:39-40)

    Once you accept Christ as Saviour into your life, His death burial and resurrection as payment for your sins, you are born again, born into the family of God. You are Baptised into Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:1-4)

    You accept Christ through faith, and that is excluding any type of works on your part. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

    We should always be careful trusting anything apart from the redemptive blood of Christ, as our way to heaven. The implications are eternal. Faith + works = no faith at all. We either rest in Christ's righteousness alone, or we do not.

    and if the Holy Spirit is helping you lead a sinless life, isn't that kind of defeating the point? if having the holy spirit in you stops you from sinning, doesn't that eliminate free will?
    If you struggle with something, and ask me for help and I come over and help you does that negate your free will?

    if you still have free will then you can still sin, and if you can still sin surely you could do something bad enough to lose salvation
    No sin can keep us from getting saved. It logically follows that no sin can "unsave us". It is true though, that when a person says " I trust Jesus as my Saviour", then takes a gun kills his family only to commit suicide seconds after, it is obvious that that person most probably never trusted Christ.

    no true Scotsman much?
    No. The no true scotsman fallacy doesn't apply here.

    It's not "no true Christian". It's "no Christian". If you are a Christian you will never leave your faith.

    The same way if you're a man, you'll never turn into a todler again.

    Christ be with you and God bless.

    If you want to go to heaven, it's very easy;

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

    Such is the simplicity that is in Christ.

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Belie...ible_study.htm
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    (Original post by Johnny Hollywood)
    Yes you can lose your salvation and you can regain it again once it is lost
    Bible verse please.

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Belie...ible_study.htm
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    (Original post by Okashira)
    Can salvation be loss? No one can take salvation from anyone, but, you can give up your salvation. The Scripture says that no one and nothing can take a person out of God's hand, but it never says that same person can't jump out of God's hand.

    Salvation is lost the very moment a Christian thinks he can do something to earn it. This is called falling from grace. If we could earn God's grace, it's no longer grace, but simply debt. Something God owes us. God owes us nothing (except eternal seperation, and punishment for our sins), and the second we think we can earn Heaven by what we do, we fall from grace.
    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:28)

    Are you a man?

    If so, then it logically follows that you can't pluck yourself out of Jesus' hand.

    I agree with you, that trying to earn Salvation is a horrible thing to do, that will send you straight to the pits of hell, but don't you think that people who do try to earn God's grace, have never trusted Jesus in the first place?

    They were not Christian to begin with.

    For intsance if a person says " I trust in Jesus' redemptive work of the cross, His death burial and resurrection as payment for my sin, I trust Him alone to get me into heaven, but this isn't enough. I must add my good deeds"

    Has that person trusted Jesus? Of course not.

    That person will join the Matthew 7:21-23 crowd.

    They never believed on him (put their trust in Him/depended on Him), therefore they were never born again, and therefore must face the horror of the Great White Throne Judgement.

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books...sgdb-index.htm

    Christ be with you and God bless.
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    (Original post by Christ Is Lord)
    There is no such thing as leaving the faith, for a born again believer.

    If you are born again, you will never leave. It's that simple.

    1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

    Although I know you're not an atheist, have a read here. It's a good article.

    http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.co...christian.html
    So you can't ever call someone a born again Christian? They could leave several times and come back without telling anybody.
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    (Original post by Retrodiction)
    So you can't ever call someone a born again Christian? They could leave several times and come back without telling anybody.
    I'm not sure what you mean....

    Could you clarify?

    In the previous post I mentioned that if you are a Christian, you are not going to leave.

    This is an easy way to discern between true and false converts.

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