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Is this not racist?

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Reply 100
Original post by Dragonfly07
I explicitly corrected myself by telling you it wasn't meant to be directed at all white people, and yet you still insist.

You may continue to wallow in the presumed hatred I have for white people and possibly celebrate your victory in this argument, in which you managed to convince me that I actually meant something other than what I just said.


Of course I insist because the original comment is still a generalisation of what white people apparently think.

I'm not wallowing in anything - I never once said you hate white people. But your post was a poor generalisation that was an ignorant comment on what white people think eg. 'being a young white male you obviously wouldn't notice nor care'.
Reply 101
Original post by Sheikh {/} Nykaa
Im soo tired of these 'how come it isn't racist if a black person does it' threads...in this case it certainly isn't racist.


oh god so am i, these threads are ridiculous
Original post by Bonged.
lol I just re read it. So if you're not black, that means you're not just saying if you would be born again you would remain who you are, you're saying that you would rather be a different ethnicity and bizarrely one that you seem to think is persecuted?

Basically, you made idiotic statements and can't accept that what you said in fact challenges your supposed principles of anti discrimination, since you presumed all white males (regardless of socio economics) are universally loved. All I can say is it's obvious you don't live in the inner city.


Actually I come from east London where the majority of people are minorities. I have also lived in many other countries in some of which white people were the minorities and were discriminated against. I have been in countries where I was accepted as one of the elite and in countries where I was considered a dirty minority by many people.

I might not have made myself entirely clear in my previous posts, so let me clarify.

Firstly, the comments I made to OP were personalised to the OP. I've seen many of his other posts and he hates minorities for the sake of hating minorities. He's one of the most ignorant people I've ever had the displeasure of coming across.

I believe racism is a result of an innate fear of anything that's alien to you in appearance or in culture, and yet similar enough to you to pose a threat (i.e. wants the same resources as you). Have you ever seen alien or robot films where they take over the world? The most eerie aliens/robots were the ones which resembled human life forms. The immediate reaction you could possibly come up with is "danger", because despite their resemblance you knew that they were still quite difference.

In the UK, 85.7% of the population is white British. The minorities are usually concentrated in specific places, normally the big inner cities (for obvious reasons). Of course black people are minorities even in those minority areas where the majority of people are actually Asian.

And yet still, England is a modern country that's relatively accepting and not very judgmental. They give equal opportunities to every race and gender.

Despite that, equal opportunities according to the law doesn't necessarily ensure equal opportunities in real life. Because this is a white country in its majority, white people are more likely (note "more likely isn't "always likely" nor is it even "likely in most occasions") to favour white people in general, especially considering the stereotypes associated with minorities, including crime and even terrorism.

Many people, including black people themselves, see black people as stupid, backwards and unable to fit into modern society without avoiding violence and crime. The evidence they give for that is that black people haven't made major contributions to science and don't manage to go on to higher education as much as white people. As a result, many black people born into a white society feel uncomfortable in their own skin and feel as if it's almost impossible for them not to be a failure and an underachievement.

Note: it doesn't have to be a racist majority. A minority of racist people is enough. The reason for that is because all black people hear is the racism towards themselves from the raicst people, but there's no praise from the unracist people simply because, being unracist, they wouldn't praise you because of your race. So, if you follow my logic, if you experience racism in any form then racism is all that you ever notice in your life.

I've recently moved up north where there are barely any minorities at all, so I only really get to talk to white people. When I mention racism or sexism to them, they are absolutely shocked because, they say, they were completely unaware any of it happened in England. And of course they would be unaware. Racism in England is subtle. It's a look someone gives you. It's the surprise they register when/if you achieve anything. It's the fear you know they have when they walk past you. When they clutch their bags more tightly or snatch their children's hands.

For me, wherever I go, I'd give more regard to minorities because they need it. Just the fact that they're a minority means that there's bound to be some form of abuse towards them, because it would be against human nature for there not to be any abuse at all.

As for the majority, they're still likely to be unaware. Not because they don't care (although many don't), but because they don't look.

Edit: as for me wanting to be black:

The reason for that is because many people's excuse for being racist is by saying that black people are underachievers/good for nothing. It isn't a desire to be discriminated against like you assumed, but rather a desire to prove myself to the world and stop this bull**** once and for all.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 103
Original post by Dragonfly07
Actually I come from east London where the majority of people are minorities. I have also lived in many other countries in some of which white people were the minorities and were discriminated against. I have been in countries where I was accepted as one of the elite and in countries where I was considered a dirty minority by many people.

I might not have made myself entirely clear in my previous posts, so let me clarify.

Firstly, the comments I made to OP were personalised to the OP. I've seen many of his other posts and he hates minorities for the sake of hating minorities. He's one of the most ignorant people I've ever had the displeasure of coming across.

I believe racism is a result of an innate fear of anything that's alien to you in appearance or in culture, and yet similar enough to you to pose a threat (i.e. wants the same resources as you). Have you ever seen alien or robot films where they take over the world? The most eerie aliens/robots were the ones which resembled human life forms. The immediate reaction you could possibly come up with is "danger", because despite their resemblance you knew that they were still quite difference.

In the UK, 85.7% of the population is white British. The minorities are usually concentrated in specific places, normally the big inner cities (for obvious reasons). Of course black people are minorities even in those minority areas where the majority of people are actually Asian.

And yet still, England is a modern country that's relatively accepting and not very judgmental. They give equal opportunities to every race and gender.

Despite that, equal opportunities according to the law doesn't necessarily ensure equal opportunities in real life. Because this is a white country in its majority, white people are more likely (note "more likely isn't "always likely" nor is it even "likely in most occasions") to favour white people in general, especially considering the stereotypes associated with minorities, including crime and even terrorism.

Many people, including black people themselves, see black people as stupid, backwards and unable to fit into modern society without avoiding violence and crime. The evidence they give for that is that black people haven't made major contributions to science and don't manage to go on to higher education as much as white people. As a result, many black people born into a white society feel uncomfortable in their own skin and feel as if it's almost impossible for them not to be a failure and an underachievement.

Note: it doesn't have to be a racist majority. A minority of racist people is enough. The reason for that is because all black people hear is the racism towards themselves from the raicst people, but there's no praise from the unracist people simply because, being unracist, they wouldn't praise you because of your race. So, if you follow my logic, if you experience racism in any form then racism is all that you ever notice in your life.

I've recently moved up north where there are barely any minorities at all, so I only really get to talk to white people. When I mention racism or sexism to them, they are absolutely shocked because, they say, they were completely unaware any of it happened in England. And of course they would be unaware. Racism in England is subtle. It's a look someone gives you. It's the surprise they register when/if you achieve anything. It's the fear you know they have when they walk past you. When they clutch their bags more tightly or snatch their children's hands.

For me, wherever I go, I'd give more regard to minorities because they need it. Just the fact that they're a minority means that there's bound to be some form of abuse towards them, because it would be against human nature for there not to be any abuse at all.

As for the majority, they're still likely to be unaware. Not because they don't care (although many don't), but because they don't look.

Edit: as for me wanting to be black:

The reason for that is because many people's excuse for being racist is by saying that black people are underachievers/good for nothing. It isn't a desire to be discriminated against like you assumed, but rather a desire to prove myself to the world and stop this bull**** once and for all.


You're from east london and yet you still see all minorities as automatically victims of the white majority? What piffle. Everything you've said is dogma. As for wanting to be black, that's just weird. It shows there's something wrong with society when people want to be a different race because they WANT to experience discrimination. Not that black people really do experience much discrimination, so unless you were specifically looking for any you'd be disappointed. No more than poor white people. An old granny is just as likely to clutch her bag on seeing a "chav". In fact white people actually are far less likely to attack someone based on racial reasons than black people or asians.
Original post by patrickinator
) HUMAN RIGHTS: Protecting And Promoting Human Rights

The English Defence League (EDL) is a human rights organisation that was founded in the wake of the shocking actions of a small group of Muslim extremists who, at a homecoming parade in Luton, openly mocked the sacrifices of our service personnel without any fear of censure. Although these actions were certainly those of a minority, we believe that they reflect other forms of religiously-inspired intolerance and barbarity that are thriving amongst certain sections of the Muslim population in Britain: including, but not limited to, the denigration and oppression of women, the molestation of young children, the committing of so-called honour killings, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and continued support for those responsible for terrorist atrocities.

Whilst we must always protect against the unjust assumption that all Muslims are complicit in or somehow responsible for these crimes, we must not be afraid to speak freely about these issues. This is why the EDL will continue to work to protect the inalienable rights of all people to protest against radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non-Muslims.

We also recognise that Muslims themselves are frequently the main victims of some Islamic traditions and practices. The Government should protect the individual human rights of members of British Muslims. It should ensure that they can openly criticise Islamic orthodoxy, challenge Islamic leaders without fear of retribution, receive full equality before the law (including equal rights for Muslim women), and leave Islam if they see fit, without fear of censure.

British Muslims should be able to safely demand reform of their religion, in order to make it more relevant to the needs of the modern world and more respectful of other groups in society. It is important that they completely reject the views of those who believe that Islam should be taken in its ‘original’, 7th century form, because these interpretations are the antithesis of Western democracy. The onus should be on British Muslims to overcome the problems that blight their religion and achieve nothing short of an Islamic reformation. In line with this, we should do all that we can to empower those who are willing to take this path. We must also ensure that they do not fear reprisals from those who, in line with these 7th century interpretations, would force sharia law upon them.

The EDL calls upon the Government to repeal legislation that prevents effective freedom of speech, for freedom of speech is essential if the human rights abuses that sometimes manifest themselves around Islam are to be stopped.

We believe that the proponents of radical Islam have a stranglehold on British Muslims. These radicals dominate Muslim organisations, remain key figures in British mosques, and are steadily increasing their influence. Radical Islam keeps British Muslims fearful and isolated, especially the women that it encases in the Burqa. It misrepresents their views, stifles freedom of expression, and indoctrinates their children, whilst continually doing a discredit to those who do wish to peacefully co-exist with their fellow Britons.

(2) DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW: Promoting Democracy And The Rule Of Law By Opposing Sharia

The European Court of Human Rights has declared that ‘sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy’. Despite this, there are still those who are more than willing to accommodate sharia norms, and who believe that sharia can operate in partnership with our existing traditions and customs. In reality, sharia cannot operate fully as anything other than a complete alternative to our existing legal, political, and social systems. It is a revolution that this country does not want, and one that it must resist. Sharia is most definitely a threat to our democracy.

The operation of Islamic courts, the often unreasonable demand that Islam is given more respect than it is due, and the stealthy incursion of halal meat into the food industry, all demonstrate that sharia is already creeping into our lives. Resentment is already beginning to grow, and could create dangerous divisions if nothing is done. The primacy of British courts must be maintained and defended, fair criticism of religious and political ideologies must be permitted, and consumers must be provided with the information necessary to avoid halal produce should they wish.

Restaurants and fast food chains that do offer halal options should offer non-halal alternatives as well, in order to show respect for other people’s religions, customs, and possible concerns about animal welfare issues (surrounding ritual slaughter). No one should be made to consume halal produce unwittingly, so it must always be labeled in supermarkets, in restaurants, in schools, and in hospitals wherever it is available. Free choice in these matters is, after all, a fundamental human right for everybody, not just the Muslim community.

Sharia law makes a fundamental distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims, and the EDL will never allow this sort of iniquitous apartheid to take root in our country. The EDL will therefore oppose sharia appeasement in all its forms, and will actively work to eradicate the sharia-compliant behaviours that are already being adopted, and enforced, in our society.

(3) PUBLIC EDUCATION: Ensuring That The Public Get A Balanced Picture Of Islam

A central part of the EDL’s mission is public education. The British political and media establishment have, for a long time, been presenting a very sanitised and therefore inaccurate view of Islam, shaped by the needs of policy-makers rather than the needs of the public. This has acted as a barrier to informed policy-making and made finding the solution to real problems impossible. In pursuing this self-defeating and destructive policy, the Government has effectively been acting as the propaganda arm of the Muslim Brotherhood. Whether or not is aware of the predicament that it has put itself in, it has so far failed to honestly admit its failures.

We are committed to a campaign of public education to ensure that all aspects of Islam that impact on our society can debated in an open and honest way. Demonisation of Muslims, or of Islam’s critics, adds nothing to the debate. We believe that only by looking at all the facts can society be most effectively and humanly governed. If there are aspects of Muslim tradition that encourage the activities of Islamic radicals and criminals then these need to be properly addressed without fear of accusations of racism, xenophobia, or the even the disingenuous term ‘Islamophobia’.

The public must be provided with a more realistic and less sanitised view of Islam that allows it to ensure that decision-makers are held to account for their policy-making choices, choices that affect the harmony and security of the nation.

The EDL promotes the understanding of Islam and the implications for non-Muslims forced to live alongside it. Islam is not just a religious system, but a political and social ideology that seeks to dominate all non-believers and impose a harsh legal system that rejects democratic accountability and human rights. It runs counter to all that we hold dear within our British liberal democracy, and it must be prepared to change, to conform to secular, liberal ideals and laws, and to contribute to social harmony, rather than causing divisions.

(4) RESPECTING TRADITION: Promoting The Traditions And Culture Of England While At The Same Time Being Open To Embrace The Best That Other Cultures Can Offer

The EDL believes that English Culture has the right to exist and prosper in England. We recognise that culture is not static, that over time changes take place naturally, and that other cultures make contributions that make our shared culture stronger and more vibrant. However, this does not give license to policy-makers to deliberately undermine our culture and impose non-English cultures on the English people in their own land.

If people migrate to this country then they should be expected to respect our culture, its laws, and its traditions, and not expect their own cultures to be promoted by agencies of the state. The best of their cultures will be absorbed naturally and we will all be united by the enhanced culture that results. The onus should always be on foreign cultures to adapt and integrate. If said cultures promote anti-democratic ideas and refuse to accept the authority of our nation’s laws, then the host nation should not be bowing to these ideas in the name of ’cultural sensitivity’. Law enforcement personnel must be able to enforce the rule of law thoroughly without prejudice or fear. Everyone, after all, is supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law.

The EDL is therefore keen to draw its support from people of all races, all faiths, all political persuasions, and all lifestyle choices. Under its umbrella, all people in England, whatever their background, or origin, can stand united in a desire to stop the imposition of the rules of Islam on non-believers. In order to ensure the continuity of our culture and its institutions, the EDL stands opposed to the creeping Islamisation of our country, because intimately related to the spread of Islamic religion is the political desire to implement an undemocratic alternative to our cherished way of life: the sharia.

Our armed forces stand up and risk their lives every day in order to protect our culture and democratic way of life. They are also reflective of England’s diversity, and are a shining example of what a people can achieve when united together. The EDL is therefore committed to opposing any and all abuse that our men and women in uniform are subjected to, and will campaign for legal remedies to ensure that those working within these important institutions are not exposed to abuse or aggression from within our country.

(5) INTERNATIONAL OUTLOOK: Working In Solidarity With Others Around The World

The EDL is keen to join with others who share our values, wherever they are in the world, and from whatever cultural background they derive. We believe that the demand for sharia is global and therefore needs to be tackled at a global as well as national level, so that this demand will never be succumbed to. The EDL will therefore have an international outlook to enhance and strengthen our domestic efforts, whilst at the same time contributing to the global struggle against Islamic intolerance of Western cultures, customs, religions, politics, and laws. The time for tolerating intolerance has come to an end: it is time for the whole world to unite against a truly Global Jihad.


READ THIS AND YOU WILL DISCOVER THE EDL IS NOT A RACIST ORGANISATION. IT WANTS TO STOP GLOBAL JIHADISM AND ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS - IT NEVER MENTIONS BLACK RIGHTS BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS IT COMPLETELY. YOU ARE SOME BLIND IDIOTS WHO HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED BY OUR MEDIA.


Yes because it's difficult to find a solicitor to write a statement of intent that makes you look as clean as a whistle. My experience doesn't come from what the media says but what they have actually done. Most terrorism is done by other factions rather than middle eastern/ north african men. (The south Americans). Yet they do nothing to protest against that. They generalise and if you have watched documentaries such as prejudiced and proud as well as met many of the men who take part in the rallies you find them thugs who are bitter and have little if any respect for others or the laws of the land in which they live.
Original post by Bonged.
You're from east london and yet you still see all minorities as automatically victims of the white majority? What piffle. Everything you've said is dogma. As for wanting to be black, that's just weird. It shows there's something wrong with society when people want to be a different race because they WANT to experience discrimination. Not that black people really do experience much discrimination, so unless you were specifically looking for any you'd be disappointed. No more than poor white people. An old granny is just as likely to clutch her bag on seeing a "chav". In fact white people actually are far less likely to attack someone based on racial reasons than black people or asians.


Why do you insist on seeing it as a fight between races.

Edit: it can't possibly be dogma if I'm one of the very few people to actually hold that opinion
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Tim Wise
Stop being so narrow minded. We live in a "global community" now don't you know, its the "modern world" that's why all White countries have to become diverse via mass immigration and assimilation, the "world is getting smaller" its the "global village."

So as i said i just said, In the scheme of things, worldwide Whites are the true minorities. We are minority status. So why can't we have just one White advocacy group? You seem to think it would be somehow "racist" if we did? :rolleyes:

Or are you really just an anti-White?

Anti-racism is a code word for anti-White


Because you have and demand right practically everywhere you go? Frankly the only places where you are treated like **** are places where they don't give a **** who you are they treat EVERYONE like ****.
Reply 107
"If you consider the amount of sexual activity the non-white 6% portion of the British population would have to indulge in to outnumber the white 94% within a generation, the BNP would have nothing worry about because they would be white from the effort." - C. Morgan
Reply 108
The OP has made the fundamental mistake of taking left-wing 'logic' at face value and then using it to undermine left-wing ideology. It doesn't work like that! The liberal elite get to arbitrarily define what is and isn't racist based upon the skin colour of the person performing the action. For example if a black person fights for black rights this acceptable because his minority status affords him the luxury of a group identity. If a white man argues for white rights he's dangerous racist nazi-sympathiser. Got it? Good.

'Equality' activists used to want everyone to be treated as equals to stamp out racism, now they want everyone treated diffeently on the basis of skin colour and they're still claiming the moral high-ground. Hypocrites.
Original post by SilverSurfer22
white people suffer far more racism, crime and violence then black people


You're a massive majority? it's not for 55,000,000 people to have more bad things happen to them than it is for 1,000,000. As a proportion is far more the other way statistically.
Reply 110
Original post by Dragonfly07
Why do you insist on seeing it as a fight between races.

Edit: it can't possibly be dogma if I'm one of the very few people to actually hold that opinion


I swear it's you that is choosing to view non white people as somehow automatically more prone to "oppression".

Your views are the status quo, you're not coming up with anything groundbreaking.
Original post by Bonged.
I swear it's you that is choosing to view non white people as somehow automatically more prone to "oppression".

Your views are the status quo, you're not coming up with anything groundbreaking.


Minorities are oppressed. Black people are minorities in Britain. White people can and are oppressed elsewhere, where they're minorities.
Reply 112
Original post by Dragonfly07
Minorities are oppressed. Black people are minorities in Britain. White people can and are oppressed elsewhere, where they're minorities.


How? Just by being in the minority? How do you hope to rectify this? Make minorities the majority? Surely then the old majority would become an "oppressed minority".

Like London? lol.
Original post by Bonged.
How? Just by being in the minority? How do you hope to rectify this? Make minorities the majority? Surely then the old majority would become an "oppressed minority".

Like London? lol.


By raising awareness and educating. Pretending nothing's wrong won't solve anything.

Trying to make the minorities majorities is stupid.
Reply 114
I agree that hate against whites in western countries seems to be much more accepted. There does seem to be an imbalance in favor of minority groups in the west and I think it's wrong. If people want equality then they shouldn't ask for preferential treatment.

However, from the links you posted those people simply seem to be advocating equality in education for black people. I don't see what's so racist about that? Personally, I don't see why people should have something against a similar group of white people, or whatever the majority is in that country, who seek to balance the perceived social and media imbalance against them. It's just that the majority, not only whites but all over the world, usually have the power in society. This is why such a group would largely be seen as pointless in most countries.

Original post by Tim Wise
worldwide Whites are the true minorities. We are minority status


How are whites the 'true' minority worldwide? There are several other geo-cultural and ethnic groups far smaller than the white population.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 115
Original post by lozvegas
Racist: noun
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another

They're fighting for "equality", not because they believe they're superior. Hence, you cannot deem them racist.

/thread


Since when are black people not treated as equal citizens?
And if this was white people bringing Race into it whether it fits the definition of racism or not it'd be referred to as racist behavior.
Well I think I speak for us all when I say I pleased this thread starter has been banned.
Those students need to get a life who are protesting against the EDL need to get a life.
Original post by Matthew12
Those students need to get a life who are protesting against the EDL need to get a life.


And what's wrong with protesting against the EDL exactly?
The EDL are pretty much just an English nationalist group which are apparently non-racist and are pretty much harmless although their views on Islam are misguided and they really need to do more research on it. However they are pretty much harmless now if was a group like Combat 18/National Front whose views on race are abhorrent who were marching then i would say good on the students for having a counter protest and challenging them but since its just the EDL its a waste of time

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