[Will Lucky]

Labour haven't represented the working man since Blair became leader, then again when they claimed to truly be for the working man with there true socialist agenda in 1983 the working class abandoned them.

[sclez1]

Hate labour all your want, but I really wish people would stop using his appearance as a reason not to vote for him.

[redferry]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Labour are the party of Middle class petite "socialists", Immigrants (sorry) and public sector unions, most people who fill those jobs are middle, or lower middle class.

The party that represents the working men, the working class, aren't any of the "left" alternatives to labour, the Green party? You are joking, another middle class party, how many hard-labour industrial workers do you think are on the same page as Caroline ****** Lucas, what about the lib dems? Nope, sorry, a right wing libertarianish party, the exaxt opposite of the working class.

In all honesty, I think the closest thing would be UKIP if the official party line was what farage represents, not the influx of ex-tories and ex-lib dems.

The green Party is the only truly left wing party, in terms of policies in this country. I seriously don't see why people are so sniffy about them, when they haven't even bothered to read their manifesto etc.

How many hard-labour industrial workers are there in Britain? Not many.
Given the low numbers of true working class (I'm talking people working in the primary sector here) in Britain it wouldn't really pay for Labour to represent them, and that is the sad truth of the matter.

[bestofyou]

(Original post by prog2djent)
From 97-2010 labour's policies helped the worked class, no?

The labour opposition have exactly the same policy as the Tories on some issues, and on others are essentially the same but with slower implentation, no?

The milliband family hitory doesn't determine whether the current Millibands are representitative or the working class , no?

David is more right wing that Ed, no?

1) more so than anybody else
2) Sinn Fein are in the same position as the DUP on some issues, does this mean SF don't repensent the nationalist community in Ireland?
3) No, but it would be a reason for many working class to vote for them.
4) I don't know, I don't really follow politics into that much detail

[Drunk Punx]

(Original post by internet tough guy)
Tbh in general, I just cringe at the term, 'working class' - outdated and implies that everyone else has a cushy effortless job.

I beg to differ.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by redferry)
The green Party is the only truly left wing party, in terms of policies in this country. I seriously don't see why people are so sniffy about them, when they haven't even bothered to read their manifesto etc.
.

I have read their manifesto on their webpage (though its from 2010 so is slightly out), and most of it is bonkers.

Out of the Big 3 parties, they are to the left of them, and compared to the mid sized competition, UKIP and the BNP, they are certainly more left than UKIP, but regarding the BNP, they abour as left as each other looking and their economic policies, but the BNP are of course disasterously authoritarian and "far-right" with regards to social policy.

They aren't a left wing party though, they are just less right wing than the right, they are still a pro-capitalist party that favour huge amounts of protectionism and state control of industries and areas that people are usually on the fence with regarding nationalisation vs privatisation.

The only left wing parties are the communists, workers parties and revolutionary socialist parties.

[RyanT]

Labour has always been ruled by its establishment middle class "leaders".

Even in the 1920s with the Glasgow dockworkers, they sided with the ruling elite.

Labour are filthy blotch that should be purged off the face of our society.

Working class politics emphasises national solidarity, mass immigration and new world order idealogy is anti-working class.

They are little more then a fifth column, now headed by the Polish Jew married to a radical feminist. Says it all. Conservatives and liberal democrats also part of the same PC thought-conformist bloc.

[redferry]

(Original post by prog2djent)
I have read their manifesto on their webpage (though its from 2010 so is slightly out), and most of it is bonkers.



The only left wing parties are the communists, workers parties and revolutionary socialist parties.

I'd be interested to hear which bits you thought were bonkers.

No-one in their right mind would vote for those parties though, they are all nutjobs and stalkers.

[anarchism101]

Of course they aren't. Not for the reasons you mentioned though, simply because, like the Tories, they are just a faction of the business party.

Labour haven't been remotely pro-worker since at least Wilson.

[prog2djent]

(Original post by redferry)
I'd be interested to hear which bits you thought were bonkers.

No-one in their right mind would vote for those parties though, they are all nutjobs and stalkers.

"Which is why we will fight to introduce a High Pay Commission to ensure bankers and other highly paid executives in the private and public sectors are not rewarded for their failure."

Scare off the best competitive employees.

"We will fight for a fair financial deal, with community banks, credit unions and mutuals. This will ensure those who need financial help are given realistic loans, so they can survive the current economic hardship that we are facing today."

Destroy our rating, and our position as the financial capital of the world.

"for all homes that need it, with priority for pensioners and those living in fuel poverty. We aim to insulate 4 million homes every year."

The plight of the middle classes, again

"Right now Britain has a shortage of affordable and good quality housing to buy or rent."

No we dont

"•Bringing back into use Britain's 300,000 long-term empty private sector homes
•Renovating Britain's 37,000 empty council homes to help cut waiting lists"

Contradicting themsleves

"We want to make it easier for people to get on the property ladder,"

That was the problem in the first place ... housing boom

"An immediate £44bn package of measures would include workforce training, investment in renewables, public transport, insulation, social housing and waste management."

That's right, do what labour did and ruin the deficit, and punish future generations with more debt/inflation.

"The Green Party will fight for a National Minimum Wage of 60% of net national average earnings (currently this would mean a minimum wage of £8.10 per hour)."

Mental, they have all the economic academics against them on this, its common sense about the minimum wage level.

"We would spend £1.5bn subsidising existing public transport to make fares up to 10% cheaper and £30bn over the Parliament on investing in a better system."

How do they know? Subsidies will make fares more expensive (mal-incentive) because they are planning on firstly municipalizing the system, and don't have a timetable for public ownership.

"We will pledge to double spending on youth services, spending an extra £1bn a year so that local councils can provide a variety of activities that give young people fun and affordable things to do."

Again, the deficit, and FFS young people already have all the ******* opportunities presented to them.

They have left out how they would fund all this, the taxation, borrowing, areas, foreign policy, our deficit, immigration.

Not a good idea.

[redferry]

(Original post by prog2djent)
"Which is why we will fight to introduce a High Pay Commission to ensure bankers and other highly paid executives in the private and public sectors are not rewarded for their failure."

Scare off the best competitive employees.

"We will fight for a fair financial deal, with community banks, credit unions and mutuals. This will ensure those who need financial help are given realistic loans, so they can survive the current economic hardship that we are facing today."

Destroy our rating, and our position as the financial capital of the world.

"for all homes that need it, with priority for pensioners and those living in fuel poverty. We aim to insulate 4 million homes every year."

The plight of the middle classes, again

"Right now Britain has a shortage of affordable and good quality housing to buy or rent."

No we dont

"•Bringing back into use Britain's 300,000 long-term empty private sector homes
•Renovating Britain's 37,000 empty council homes to help cut waiting lists"

Contradicting themsleves

"We want to make it easier for people to get on the property ladder,"

That was the problem in the first place ... housing boom

"An immediate £44bn package of measures would include workforce training, investment in renewables, public transport, insulation, social housing and waste management."

That's right, do what labour did and ruin the deficit, and punish future generations with more debt/inflation.

"The Green Party will fight for a National Minimum Wage of 60% of net national average earnings (currently this would mean a minimum wage of £8.10 per hour)."

Mental, they have all the economic academics against them on this, its common sense about the minimum wage level.

"We would spend £1.5bn subsidising existing public transport to make fares up to 10% cheaper and £30bn over the Parliament on investing in a better system."

How do they know? Subsidies will make fares more expensive (mal-incentive) because they are planning on firstly municipalizing the system, and don't have a timetable for public ownership.

"We will pledge to double spending on youth services, spending an extra £1bn a year so that local councils can provide a variety of activities that give young people fun and affordable things to do."

Again, the deficit, and FFS young people already have all the ******* opportunities presented to them.

They have left out how they would fund all this, the taxation, borrowing, areas, foreign policy, our deficit, immigration.

Not a good idea.

They have quite clearly laid out policies on taxation and immigration.
The deficit has been blown way out of proportion by the media, as I have already stated.

At present their policies are over-optimistic but they show a lot of promise for the future and are genuinely left-wing.

Their insulation policy is just a spin on the fact that insulation saves energy - ie it is a green policy disguised as a socialist one. I'm not really sure you can criticise the GREEN party for having green policies...
Also living in fuel poverty is hardly a plight of the middle class.

[Stephen857]

(Original post by elliotcallard)
I'd rather have a party that just "don't really support the 'working class' anymore" than the current government who seem to be going out of their way to punish women, the disabled, the unemployed, pensioners and students.

Complete nonsense.
The tories took the poor out of tax. They essentially get the nhs etc for free.
Overall their better off.

Why should people get money or benefits for nothing. It just encourages them to not work. Have you ever heard the expression be cruel to be kind.

By making it more difficult to be on Benefits it encourages people to better themselves.

Example I know someone from glasgow who was unemployed for at least twenty years
nowthat he had his money stopped he was forced to find work as a council worker.
Now when he has a day off he doesn't know what to do. He has a peachy wee mazda and actually has a life.

Labour created a generation who always sought to take the easy road.
The tories will create a generation who work hard for the sweat of their brow.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

'Working class politics' do not exist. What does exist is a sense of fairness and equality - something which I agree Labour no longer provide, but most certainly is not against mass immigration. Labour used to claim to serve a Socialist purpose, but they don't any more, which is quite notable.

[pr0view]

(Original post by KimKallstrom)
hear hear!!

please explain the joke

[Martyn*]

(Original post by Moleman1996)
Labour have not represented the working man since the second world war. Labour actively support those who do not wish to work, and increse the burden in taxes to pay for them, somethign which actually costs the working man.

Ed Milliband's got a huge film career though! There was 'The Wrong Trousers', 'Curse of the Wererabbit' etc...

Bull****.

[Moleman1996]

(Original post by Martyn*)
Bull****.

labour make the benefits system more easy to claim from, and increase payments. You can actually earn more on benefits than you can on minimum wage. In what way does that not support my statement?

[Martyn*]

(Original post by Moleman1996)
labour make the benefits system more easy to claim from, and increase payments. You can actually earn more on benefits than you can on minimum wage. In what way does that not support my statement?

No they don't. They've made it harder. And the Tories have made it just as hard. People need benefits; we don't live on farms anymore. We don't follow in the footsteps of our fathers who worked down the mines. You cannot earn more on benefits than you can working. You are confusing income benefit with housing benefit. People who work also claim housing benefit.

[Moleman1996]

(Original post by Martyn*)
No they don't. They've made it harder. And the Tories have made it just as hard. People need benefits; we don't live on farms anymore. We don't follow in the footsteps of our fathers who worked down the mines. You cannot earn more on benefits than you can working. You are confusing income benefit with housing benefit. People who work also claim housing benefit.

people need benefits when they can't work. Not when they can and are just unwilling to find a job.

[Martyn*]

(Original post by Moleman1996)
people need benefits when they can't work. Not when they can and are just unwilling to find a job.

A very small minority maintain that they don't want to work, and they always qualify this, in my view, with their view that it would not be worth working, whether that be because of travel costs or rent, or low wages. That they can work is not even an issue; you would have to be lacking in the brain department to take a job that would leave you worse off.

[Moleman1996]

(Original post by Martyn*)
A very small minority maintain that they don't want to work, and they always qualify this, in my view, with their view that it would not be worth working, whether that be because of travel costs or rent, or low wages. That they can work is not even an issue; you would have to be lacking in the brain department to take a job that would leave you worse off.

why should we pay for people who will never pay into the system? Use Workfare, make them work for their benefits.