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Dyslexia

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    (Original post by Blutooth)
    When learning to distinguish the x and the y coordinates (x,y) I had to learn "the along the corridor and up the stairs" rule. This mirrors what happens in a house. You first go along the corridor then up the stairs and also what happens in the coordinate plane: you first go along the x axis then up the y. Similarly a crocodile would most likely go for larger prey, which is why the mouth of the inequality points towards the larger object eg. 4<7. I'm sorry to be this blunt, but you said that you can't remember how to learn such tricks properly. But the point of these tricks is that you do not need to remember which way they work as they rely on common sense. It is not dyslexia which stops one from learning such rules and applying them correctly.

    With regards to your third paragraph, good for you. And I mean that seriously. However, you are not going to dissuade me from my view that as you have got an A in english without extra time, you should be entitled to extra time. Clearly dyslexia hasn't hampered your progress in this regard, so why do you think it will while studying medicine? if it's the logical side of a medical degree you have a problem with, then your dyslexia shouldn't be the cause of any problems here- as dyslexia is a condition that impairs comprehension not calculation (there is a separate dyscalculia condition). And It seems your A-level results that your comprehension is quite good.
    On the basis of 21 years of living with dyslexia and the opinions of fellow dyslexics and professionals, I would have to disagree that it is not dyslexia which prevents the retention of such information. I appreciate that it might be hard to understand how one could not remember such common sense sayings or rules. The fact is that in my case, I can't. This is related to dyslexia as I am not lacking common sense in day to day situations but in artificial scenarios I find this kind of thing almost impossible. I might also add, that I have difficulty generating internal images of, for example a house, which might help as an explanation in this particular instance.

    In terms of extra time, evidently I managed without, that is indisputable given that I achieved the top possible grade. However I would have been fully entitled to use extra time, or make use of additional help. I am in no doubt that if I had chosen to use these tools I would have found achieving the grades that I did exponentially easier. This is the point. Extra time is intended to level the playing field, between those without specific learning difficulties and those with. Obviously lots of people without a SLD may too have benefited from extra time, but given that this is not attributable to a specific difficulty they are not entitled to it. Just because I managed to achieve something without extra time, it does not mean I shouldn't have been entitled to use it to make my educational experience easier, and one that mirrored the experience of my peers without dyslexia.

    With regard to medicine. The application process is very rigorous and the entry tests last (if I remember correctly?) five hours. They contain many different elements, some of which will be largely unaffected by my dyslexia. However other aspects, such as verbal reasoning, visual pattern analysis etc. will be very difficult for me. Additionally, the vast amount of reading and writing which is required in answering all the questions would slow me down considerably. I therefore think that if I were to apply for medicine I may not achieve the required scores on these tests without extra time. This is why I chose to have my dyslexia formally recognised at such a late stage of my education.
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    (Original post by Booyah)
    Didn't imply, I was just thinking about what it feels like to be marked as Dyslexic or Dyspraxic and told that you have learning difficulties as a child, so in a way you are told that you do have a learning difficulty so you do not have to learn or, that it is wrongly diagnosed because you are easily distracted and are genuinely not listening to a teacher when being taught.
    You were implying exactly this. FYI, my sister is Dyslexic as are 2 of my cousins, my uncle and several of my friends. They all had to work considerably harder that most people to maintain average grades; the thing about a learning difficulty is that you find it more difficult to learn so you need to put more effort in and most Dyslexic people do.

    Furthermore, teachers themselves can tell the difference between a student that is struggling to learn as opposed to one that is genuinely not listening. I can't really believe you're comparing Dyslexia to ADHD.

    As for misdiagnosis, I don't think it really matters that much. Some people are wrongly diagnosed with Dyslexia but often this means they have some sort of more obscure learning difficulty which perhaps their school is not equipped to deal with whereas if they are diagnosed with Dyslexia they generally will receive the extra help they need to be at an equal chance of succeeding in their education as everyone else.

    Many Dyslexic children, as a result of their learning disability, may also become distracted and disinterested because it is tough to spend Monday-Friday, 9-5 doing something you're not very good at and thus may not want to do as much.

    That said, I don't think many people are wrongly diagnosed, or at least, if they are they would still qualify for some sort of learning difficulty.

    And you were implying that a significant amount of Dyslexic people may in fact be idle or disruptive which is pretty offensive when you think about it.
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    (Original post by RedLizzie)
    On the basis of 21 years of living with dyslexia and the opinions of fellow dyslexics and professionals, I would have to disagree that it is not dyslexia which prevents the retention of such information. I appreciate that it might be hard to understand how one could not remember such common sense sayings or rules. The fact is that in my case, I can't. This is related to dyslexia as I am not lacking common sense in day to day situations but in artificial scenarios I find this kind of thing almost impossible. I might also add, that I have difficulty generating internal images of, for example a house, which might help as an explanation in this particular instance.
    Sounds fair.
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    (Original post by willbee)
    You were implying exactly this. FYI, my sister is Dyslexic as are 2 of my cousins, my uncle and several of my friends. They all had to work considerably harder that most people to maintain average grades; the thing about a learning difficulty is that you find it more difficult to learn so you need to put more effort in and most Dyslexic people do.

    Furthermore, teachers themselves can tell the difference between a student that is struggling to learn as opposed to one that is genuinely not listening. I can't really believe you're comparing Dyslexia to ADHD.

    As for misdiagnosis, I don't think it really matters that much. Some people are wrongly diagnosed with Dyslexia but often this means they have some sort of more obscure learning difficulty which perhaps their school is not equipped to deal with whereas if they are diagnosed with Dyslexia they generally will receive the extra help they need to be at an equal chance of succeeding in their education as everyone else.

    Many Dyslexic children, as a result of their learning disability, may also become distracted and disinterested because it is tough to spend Monday-Friday, 9-5 doing something you're not very good at and thus may not want to do as much.

    That said, I don't think many people are wrongly diagnosed, or at least, if they are they would still qualify for some sort of learning difficulty.

    And you were implying that a significant amount of Dyslexic people may in fact be idle or disruptive which is pretty offensive when you think about it.
    Saying a spade is a spade is pretty offensive when you think about it... In today's society you cannot say that something is something you have to go around saying that a spade is a spade. But hey when talking about any concept that is at the cutting edge of science your liable to offend people. I hope I haven't done that.
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    (Original post by Booyah)
    I am assuming I am gonna get a ridiculous amount of Negs

    Do you believe that the introduction of Dyslexia or Dysprexia was the correct choice? So rather than helping students we just label them as incapable of doing work, and so they suffer as they are singled out and put into remedial classes? Or do you think that it helps them to be given a medical term to make them seem like they have a reason not to work. I would like to hear from some people who are Dyslexic and Dysprexic, and how they think that they were treated in school and whether or not you appreciated being treated like that.
    I was diagnosed as being dyslexic in year 4. Now, I was happy there was an explanation for why I was doing bad in certain areas of work, but really annoyed at the fact that I had to attend special classes; honestly, it made me feel like a idiot. After a while I just stopped attending and decided that if I was dyslexic, I was going to solve it on my own, but not by taking classes or practicing words or the other things. I decided, if it was meant to be, then I would work a way around it, if not, then that just how it was.

    I was labelled as stupid and seen as stupid, but I never thought I was. The problem was, I just had difficultly expressing my thoughts, reading out loud, saying words correctly and a few other things. I got CEEU for my AS level results and this just further resulted in the school seeing me as an idiot. However, I re-took all my exams from last year and I got AAABB in January. Literally, the shock most of my teachers had and the way I suddenly became more of a focus, made me laugh.

    Anyway,being labelled as dyslexic is good and bad. It's good knowing your dyslexic, so you can work round things. But, the treatment you get can lower your self-esteem and cause you to blame your academic/life failure on the fact you're dyslexic or dysprexia. I think what really helped me when I felt like the second description is I used to watch a lot of tv shows which always sent the message across of never giving up.

    The weird thing is, during the summer holiday break before getting my results. I felt like my brain had unlocked itself.
    I'm dyslexic and dysperxia.
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    Dyspraxia at least is not just about academics. Dyspraxic individuals will have poorer hand-eye coordination, will bump into things more often than non-dyspraxic people, will have difficulties judging distance, will frequently trip on their speach and so on. That's why it used to be called 'clumsy child syndrome'.
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    (Original post by willbee)
    And you were implying that a significant amount of Dyslexic people may in fact be idle or disruptive which is pretty offensive when you think about it.
    It also shows a lack of understanding of what Dyslexia is. I have 2 friends on Facebook who are both Dyslexic. One, his spelling is awful; but he does try and the other seems to have little / no problems with spelling.
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    http://www.dyslexia.com/library/symptoms.htm

    This site had a load of symptoms. I have a lot of these so I'm not sure whether to take an official test somewhere. For instance I:

    always confuse left and right, terrible short term memory, excellent long term memory, easily distracted by sounds, thinks primarily with images, rather quiet in class, strong sense of justice, covers up weaknesses, zones out, learns best through hands-on experience, demonstrations, experimentation, observation, and visual aids.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    http://www.dyslexia.com/library/symptoms.htm

    This site had a load of symptoms. I have a lot of these so I'm not sure whether to take an official test somewhere. For instance I:

    always confuse left and right, terrible short term memory, excellent long term memory, easily distracted by sounds, thinks primarily with images, rather quiet in class, strong sense of justice, covers up weaknesses, zones out, learns best through hands-on experience, demonstrations, experimentation, observation, and visual aids.
    Which could also be symptoms of many other learning disabilities. I have some of the symptoms you mentioned. The issue with sounds is related to hypersensitivity, memory stuff is related to brain injury / epilepsy, etc.

    In your case, it might be worth taking the official test if you think it'll benefit you.
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    just an impure illness. who cares, let the ****ers suffer lol.
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    (Original post by Booyah)
    I am assuming I am gonna get a ridiculous amount of Negs

    Do you believe that the introduction of Dyslexia or Dysprexia was the correct choice? So rather than helping students we just label them as incapable of doing work, and so they suffer as they are singled out and put into remedial classes? Or do you think that it helps them to be given a medical term to make them seem like they have a reason not to work. I would like to hear from some people who are Dyslexic and Dysprexic, and how they think that they were treated in school and whether or not you appreciated being treated like that.
    I am dyspraxic and when I was a kid going though school it wasn't something they really knew about. I think from the outside looking in on things like dyslexia and dyspraxia it can seem like a con but it really isn't. In the case of Dyspraxia and I have new been seen by neurologists and am still in the care of a consultant neurologist at my local hospital my brain is demonstrably different to the majority of other people. It doesn't make me stupid (I got a 1st class degree and an MA) or slow but it does mean that fitting in to a world that is shaped by a majority who are "neurotypical" that I can have some difficulties.

    I am not sure about using a label like dyslexic, dyspraxia or ADHD and then medicating that person to fit in etc but if you can say to a person, stop trying to fit in with everyone else and find your own strengths and ways of working. For a long time I didn't do that, I just focuses on the ways in which I was different from other people and that affected my self esteem and my belief in what I could do but when you know that you just need to accept yourself for who you are and not judge yourself by a set of criteria that don't apply to you. It's more subtle and more hidden but in many ways it could be seen as similer to the kind of prejudice that gay or transgendered people have faced in the past.

    People who are dyslexic, dyspraxic etc are not defective or lazy they are different, and that difference brings a new perspective, new insights and possibilities which I feel we need to embrace and accept rather than judge or dismiss just because some don't understand.
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    (Original post by RedLizzie)
    On the basis of 21 years of living with dyslexia and the opinions of fellow dyslexics and professionals, I would have to disagree that it is not dyslexia which prevents the retention of such information. I appreciate that it might be hard to understand how one could not remember such common sense sayings or rules. The fact is that in my case, I can't. This is related to dyslexia as I am not lacking common sense in day to day situations but in artificial scenarios I find this kind of thing almost impossible. I might also add, that I have difficulty generating internal images of, for example a house, which might help as an explanation in this particular instance.

    In terms of extra time, evidently I managed without, that is indisputable given that I achieved the top possible grade. However I would have been fully entitled to use extra time, or make use of additional help. I am in no doubt that if I had chosen to use these tools I would have found achieving the grades that I did exponentially easier. This is the point. Extra time is intended to level the playing field, between those without specific learning difficulties and those with. Obviously lots of people without a SLD may too have benefited from extra time, but given that this is not attributable to a specific difficulty they are not entitled to it. Just because I managed to achieve something without extra time, it does not mean I shouldn't have been entitled to use it to make my educational experience easier, and one that mirrored the experience of my peers without dyslexia.

    With regard to medicine. The application process is very rigorous and the entry tests last (if I remember correctly?) five hours. They contain many different elements, some of which will be largely unaffected by my dyslexia. However other aspects, such as verbal reasoning, visual pattern analysis etc. will be very difficult for me. Additionally, the vast amount of reading and writing which is required in answering all the questions would slow me down considerably. I therefore think that if I were to apply for medicine I may not achieve the required scores on these tests without extra time. This is why I chose to have my dyslexia formally recognised at such a late stage of my education.
    I'm probably going to get hugely negged for this, but it's something which has always puzzled me. I completely understand that dyslexia can mean you have difficulty performing certain tasks which other people find easy, but that this doesn't mean your intelligence is lower than anyone else's. So it's right that people with dyslexia are acknowledged as such and not just assumed to be stupid. My problem, however, is that I don't understand why this warrants extra time. Say I'm slow at running but generally very fit. Of course it would be wrong to call me unfit for being a slow runner, just as it would be wrong for someone to say a dyslexic person must be stupid if they find hard the tasks which dyslexia makes hard, but would I deserve a head start in a race? I don't see why I would. A maths exam is a test of how fast and how well you can do maths... if you are slow at maths, why should you get extra time because you're slow at maths, say? If you're bad at spelling, you'll get less that the 5% of the marks awarded in an English exam for spelling. Why should it matter whether that's because you have a recognised disorder or because you're just bad at spelling? Of course it's wrong to say someone is stupid for having a particular deficit in certain areas of mental functioning, but I don't know why it's considered so different. People who are unintelligent have an unfair disadvantage in exams. They are slower and find the material more difficult to process. What's the difference between that unfair disadvantage and the unfair disadvantage which is dyslexia? Exams are predicated on unfairness. They're based on the idea that some people are more able than others. Whether you're less able because of a disorder or because of some other fact about your makeup, if something's a test of ability and you don't have that ability, or have it to a lesser degree, why should you be able to pass a test of that ability?

    Obviously you show that people can do incredibly well even with such a disadvantage, but it's the case for everyone that there are people who find the task harder and people who find the task easier. I don't know why the people who find it harder should be given an extra advantage to help them achieve the same as everyone else... that seems to defeat the point of exams.
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    One thing we can agree on here is that dyslexia certainly exists as an active term in education.

    Now, as with many things the cause of an event or activity is quite important.
    I believe the cause here is largely due to education.

    Interestingly this democratic school (humanist teaching methods) has had no experience with learners developing dyslexia: source

    I'd be interested to see statistics of diagnosed dyslexia against income.
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    (Original post by Bimbleby)
    I'm probably going to get hugely negged for this, but it's something which has always puzzled me. I completely understand that dyslexia can mean you have difficulty performing certain tasks which other people find easy, but that this doesn't mean your intelligence is lower than anyone else's. So it's right that people with dyslexia are acknowledged as such and not just assumed to be stupid. My problem, however, is that I don't understand why this warrants extra time. Say I'm slow at running but generally very fit. Of course it would be wrong to call me unfit for being a slow runner, just as it would be wrong for someone to say a dyslexic person must be stupid if they find hard the tasks which dyslexia makes hard, but would I deserve a head start in a race? I don't see why I would. A maths exam is a test of how fast and how well you can do maths... if you are slow at maths, why should you get extra time because you're slow at maths, say? If you're bad at spelling, you'll get less that the 5% of the marks awarded in an English exam for spelling. Why should it matter whether that's because you have a recognised disorder or because you're just bad at spelling? Of course it's wrong to say someone is stupid for having a particular deficit in certain areas of mental functioning, but I don't know why it's considered so different. People who are unintelligent have an unfair disadvantage in exams. They are slower and find the material more difficult to process. What's the difference between that unfair disadvantage and the unfair disadvantage which is dyslexia? Exams are predicated on unfairness. They're based on the idea that some people are more able than others. Whether you're less able because of a disorder or because of some other fact about your makeup, if something's a test of ability and you don't have that ability, or have it to a lesser degree, why should you be able to pass a test of that ability?

    Obviously you show that people can do incredibly well even with such a disadvantage, but it's the case for everyone that there are people who find the task harder and people who find the task easier. I don't know why the people who find it harder should be given an extra advantage to help them achieve the same as everyone else... that seems to defeat the point of exams.
    I think that the way to think about this is that if you consider an unintelligent, let's call them stupid individual, and you change the administration technique of the exam so that it is verbally/orally administered rather than written, they are unlikely to perform in a markedly different manner. Perhaps they will get slightly better marks but I don't think it would be significant. On the other hand, consider a dyslexic. If their exam was administered verbally they would almost undoubtedly perform exponentially better, because the answers and ideas are in their heads. The point of extra time is therefore an attempt to undo some of the disadvantages that come about from the necessary standardisation of exams. In having a standardised system it is going to favour some individuals over others, in this system dyslexics are disadvantaged. Extra-time allows (to some degree) someone with dyslexia to put themselves on slightly more of a level playing field.

    The crucial difference is that providing such extra time for someone who does not have have dyslexia but just struggles because of intelligence, would probably not help them. From my experiences at school the 'stupid' kids always finished exams really early because they didn't have anything to say, or couldn't attempt a lot of questions.

    Finally the for 'stupid' kids disadvantaged on exams (i.e those without a specific disorder) this disadvantage reflects a genuine inability (hence the lack of improvement with change of modality or extra time). Thus, those with a specific disorder should be helped overcome their disadvantage because it allows the recognition of their 'true' abilities.
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    (Original post by RedLizzie)
    The crucial difference is that providing such extra time for someone who does not have have dyslexia but just struggles because of intelligence, would probably not help them. From my experiences at school the 'stupid' kids always finished exams really early because they didn't have anything to say, or couldn't attempt a lot of questions.
    Agreed. I think the extra time will only benefit people whose medical conditions mean that they're slow readers due to disability (which is not related to intelligence) or because they need a rest break.

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