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Is the BNP a spent political party?

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    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    Those criticising the mayoral choice - the strategy was to put Carlos (who is of immigrant Italian descent) forward as the BNP Mayoral candidate to pick up votes from immigrants (as 60% of London's population itself is non-indigenous of immigrant background). It didn't work though. Quite obviously the majority of Londoners are not interested in halting immigration as they are immigrants themselves. This has been verified in polls. The rest of UK however is generally anti-immigration, its why the BNP vote held up elsewhere in the local elections.
    Hurrrr im an immigrant whos gonna vote for a party dat hates me & wants me out off the contry jus becos anover immigrant is runing for them deeerrrrp :dunce:

    I'm going to add something to my list of options: the BNP are either exceptionally stupid, racist, incredibly condescending and ignorant in their understanding of social politics, or a combination of the three.
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    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    Please stop spreading misinformation. Nick Griffin was invited to a nationalist conference in America years back. The Ku Klux Klan was not there, who was there was David Duke an ex-Klan member (he left in like 1979).


    All your sort can do is lie, distort and parrot libel.
    Yes, because David Duke left the KKK after having been a 'Grand Wizard', vindicated all racist affiliations and preached equality and peace between all races and creeds.

    Oh wait...no, he preaches racial segregation and white separatism to this day

    In all honesty, I can't say 'Grand Wizard' with a straight face. It just makes me think of this:

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    >Implying that you need to smear the BNP when they do a fine job of that whenever they open their mouths.
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    There'll probably always be a residual political party for far-right bigots and racists (usually the same people) and it looks like that will be the BNP for some time yet - but it is heartening to see them so weak and disorganised.
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    For as long as the voice of the white working class is ignored by all three main political parties, the BNP and/or other similar groups such as the EDL will continue to exist. The indigenous white working class has no voice any more because all three main parties sit in ivory towers discussing how to be as ideologically multicultural and political correct which is completely out of touch with the demands of the native working class.
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    (Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
    For as long as the voice of the white working class is ignored by all three main political parties, the BNP and/or other similar groups such as the EDL will continue to exist. The indigenous white working class has no voice any more because all three main parties sit in ivory towers discussing how to be as ideologically multicultural and political correct which is completely out of touch with the demands of the native working class.
    I'm 'native' English, white, and working-class but the racism and bigotry of the BNP don't represent me by any stretch of the imagination, they are a party of wannabe-Nazis as far as I'm concerned. Besides, what do you know of the demands of the native working-class in Britain? Are you British? Are you working-class?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    I'm 'native' English, white, and working-class but the racism and bigotry of the BNP don't represent me by any stretch of the imagination, they are a party of wannabe-Nazis as far as I'm concerned. Besides, what do you know of the demands of the native working-class in Britain? Are you British? Are you working-class?
    No, I'm originally Canadian and middle-class, but I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. Being working-class does not somehow confer upon you the ability to view how the working class as a whole is represented. Labour, which used to be the go-to party for working class people, is now disproportionately London-centric, cosmopolitan, and multicultural. Do you not see how that might alienate some of its core voters? The BNP's protectionist economic ideas are very much in line with Old Labour. It's social policies are small-c conservative (albeit extremely so). You may not align yourself with the BNP or EDL, but can you not see how many white, working class Britons might? Especially those with limited job prospects and a grim economic future ahead of them?
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    (Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
    No, I'm originally Canadian and middle-class...
    Heh, thought so. Maybe now you'll stop trying to speak on behalf of those who happen to be 'native' and working-class to further what is obviously your own right-wing political agenda?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Heh, thought so. Maybe now you'll stop trying to speak on behalf of those who happen to be 'native' and working-class to further what is obviously your own right-wing political agenda?
    Yes, I'm a scary conservative with a hidden agenda :rolleyes:

    But seriously, why the contempt? I never claimed to speak on anybody's behalf, I'm just analysing things as I see them.

    The irony is, you're holding the views of native British people up on a pedestal above all others and attempting to silence your opposition without providing an adequate response. The BNP would be proud.
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    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    (a) Nick Griffin was invited not knowing David Duke would be there.
    And then subsequently shared a platform with him, addressed him, made no complaints and allowed the even to be filmed :rolleyes: Yeah, they tied him down and forced him to share a stage with the known racist whilst he screamed in restraint...

    (b) David Duke left the Ku Klux Klan in the late 70's anyway.
    It's still note worthy. Regardless, as I mentioned before - he's still a notorious racist that preaches his brand of racial separatism.

    (c) Nick didn't even speak to Duke, they were speaking at different times.
    Yeah, he was at an event entitled "American Friends of the BNP" but of course, made no contact with the members there :rolleyes:

    You've turned your party into a laughing stock. You've lost all support across the country, loosing practically all your councillors and being absolutely thrashed in Barking. You can't rear your head in public without being regarded as a nutcase.
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    (Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
    The indigenous white working class
    See this is where I have a bit of an issue. This use of the word "indigenous" that the BNP and their followers have started bandying about to represent - let's not mince words - the daily mail/sun/star reading white van man (referring to the colour of the van more than the person) , in effect. Also, use of the term "working class".

    These terms, especially "indigenous" are then blindly repeated by these people in an attempt to try and represent this group of people as some kind of opressed minority. Very clever. Almost.

    I don't think that the "white working class" actually qualify for the word "indigenous". It's used to refer to ethnic minorities who have been colonized strictly speaking, which the "whtie working class" is not.

    Also, on a lesser note, this thing about being "working class". Most of this "white working class" that we refer to is strictly speaking upper working to lower middle class. They only refer to themselves as working class due to a massive amount of inverse snobbery based around the fact that somehow they think being working class is honourable and to be respected. In other words, it's cool to be working class all of a sudden.

    These people woudln't know true working class if it hit them in the face. If you want to know about working class, try having one bath a week and sharing the bathwater with the rest of your family for starters. Then try not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Then try working for the factory down the road for nothing just to build experience. Then, turn the heating off in your house in the middle of winter. I doubt any of this applies to your average white van man taking home 60 grand a year with his plumbing/woodworking/building buisiness. Those guys according to class definition are middle class, due to their income.

    "Indigenous white working class" - what a load of old tosh. Designed to psychologically tug at the heart strings, but in actual fact, complete nonsense.
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    (Original post by frankieboy)
    See this is where I have a bit of an issue. This use of the word "indigenous" that the BNP and their followers have started bandying about to represent - let's not mince words - the daily mail/sun/star reading white van man (referring to the colour of the van more than the person) , in effect. Also, use of the term "working class".

    These terms, especially "indigenous" are then blindly repeated by these people in an attempt to try and represent this group of people as some kind of opressed minority. Very clever. Almost.

    I don't think that the "white working class" actually qualify for the word "indigenous". It's used to refer to ethnic minorities who have been colonized strictly speaking, which the "whtie working class" is not.

    Also, on a lesser note, this thing about being "working class". Most of this "white working class" that we refer to is strictly speaking upper working to lower middle class. They only refer to themselves as working class due to a massive amount of inverse snobbery based around the fact that somehow they think being working class is honourable and to be respected. In other words, it's cool to be working class all of a sudden.

    These people woudln't know true working class if it hit them in the face. If you want to know about working class, try having one bath a week and sharing the bathwater with the rest of your family for starters. Then try not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Then try working for the factory down the road for nothing just to build experience. Then, turn the heating off in your house in the middle of winter. I doubt any of this applies to your average white van man taking home 60 grand a year with his plumbing/woodworking/building buisiness. Those guys according to class definition are middle class, due to their income.

    "Indigenous white working class" - what a load of old tosh. Designed to psychologically tug at the heart strings, but in actual fact, complete nonsense.
    I don't think 'indigenous' is necessarily an inappropriate term to use. There is nothing in its definition that suggests oppression or colonisation. It is commonly used to describe plants and animals that are native to one particular area. However, the Griffin has referred to the whites as something along the lines of 'Britain's aboriginal people', which fits your description much better. That is a much more charged word that would evoke a psychological response by 'pulling at the heart strings' as you put it.

    The question is how we define what exactly the working class is in the 21st century - you make some interesting points. Does it even exist any more, according to your definition? Basically, no. But is 'working-class' relative? Does it mean the bottom X% of people by income? Is one country's working class another country's bourgeoisie?
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    (Original post by frankieboy)
    See this is where I have a bit of an issue. This use of the word "indigenous" that the BNP and their followers have started bandying about to represent - let's not mince words - the daily mail/sun/star reading white van man (referring to the colour of the van more than the person) , in effect. Also, use of the term "working class".
    It's obviously not an issue. Would you go to Australia and question or deny that the Australian Aborigines are indigenous? The answer is obviously no. So why is there an issue Britain has an indigenous population? Those that the goverment classify as ''White British'' on the census, are the indigenous British, and are the ethnic stock that have been here since the Ice Age. To put things in perspective note that the Maori of New Zealand are accepted as indigenous, but they have only been settled since about 1280 CE. The indigenous British in contrast have been in these isles for over 10,000 years more, but cranks and far left loons deny we are indigenous. These people have never taken a basic history class.
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    (Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
    I don't think 'indigenous' is necessarily an inappropriate term to use. There is nothing in its definition that suggests oppression or colonisation. It is commonly used to describe plants and animals that are native to one particular area. However, the Griffin has referred to the whites as something along the lines of 'Britain's aboriginal people', which fits your description much better. That is a much more charged word that would evoke a psychological response by 'pulling at the heart strings' as you put it.

    The question is how we define what exactly the working class is in the 21st century - you make some interesting points. Does it even exist any more, according to your definition? Basically, no. But is 'working-class' relative? Does it mean the bottom X% of people by income? Is one country's working class another country's bourgeoisie?
    Interesting points, of which I will have to give some thought before replying properly.

    One thing I will say is that I think I agree with the people who say "The sooner we abolish the class system in this Country, the better". I think the class system is in itself massively outdated, and is causing seperatism and conflict within a population that ought to be pulling together. I think the likes of the Conservative government, certainly, are not going to be interested in abolishing this stupid system at all. It's in their interests to maintain it, in order to keep the have's from the have-not's.
    I suspect the BNP doesn't want to do away with it either, otherwise they couldn't keep bleating on about the "working class".
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    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    been here since the Ice Age.
    So assuming I give you the benefit of the doubt and go along with what you're saying, how can we tell who is "indigenous" then?

    Surely it's pretty difficult to trace one's ancestory back to the Ice ages to check that one qualifies? Is what you're saying that everyone who's white and British is "indigenous"? How do we know that they aren't in fact German? Or Swedish? etc.
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    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    That's something called freedom of speech. By the way, since i see you have mentioned Barking, Margaret Hodge of Labour stood with the British National Party on the same platform when the constituency results were declared. In fact she delivered a speech while Nick Griffin was on the same stage. So by your logic are the Labour party now the same as the BNP? Sharing a platform with someone doesn't mean you endorse their view.
    :rofl:

    There's a difference between the stage where candidates are lined up before having the election results announced, and sharing a stage where you've been invited to talk at an event called 'American friends of the BNP'.

    Ironically, this is what Hodge used her time on stage to say:





    Racial separatism does not equate to racism. It appears you are just wildly throwing the r word around without even knowing what it means.
    Yes it does. I'm not making any comment on multiculturalism, but in a liberal society, racial separatism is on par with racism.

    Any form of separatism is just freedom of association. If people don't want to mix with other races, ethnicities, cultures, religions etc, they don't have to.
    I have no desire to 'force' anyone to hang out with anyone else they do not want to in their spare time, but we're talking about political forces here, and racial separatism doesn't deserve any space or leeway in institutions or political discourse.
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    (Original post by frankieboy)
    Interesting points, of which I will have to give some thought before replying properly.

    One thing I will say is that I think I agree with the people who say "The sooner we abolish the class system in this Country, the better". I think the class system is in itself massively outdated, and is causing seperatism and conflict within a population that ought to be pulling together. I think the likes of the Conservative government, certainly, are not going to be interested in abolishing this stupid system at all. It's in their interests to maintain it, in order to keep the have's from the have-not's.
    I suspect the BNP doesn't want to do away with it either, otherwise they couldn't keep bleating on about the "working class".
    As a Canadian, I have never encountered such impassioned debates and discussions over class until I mingled with British people. The concept of class is stronger in Britain than it is in the rest of the western world and all of Europe. It probably stems from the fact that Britain was the finest example on an aristocracy (by definition, a country run by aristocrats) for a few hundred years. The problem is that the class system can't be abolished overnight because there is no legal definition of class. It is people's mindsets that need to change.

    I'm not sure if it actually is in the interest of the Conservatives to maintain the concept of the class system, because if so then they will forever be portrayed as the uncaring toffs who piss on factory workers for fun after glugging a bottle of champagne. If people stopped thinking along class lines they wouldn't get as much slack for being 'upper class ****holes', they would just be dismissed as 'rich ****holes', which is arguably slightly better in terms of PR
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    (Original post by frankieboy)
    So assuming I give you the benefit of the doubt and go along with what you're saying, how can we tell who is "indigenous" then?

    Surely it's pretty difficult to trace one's ancestory back to the Ice ages to check that one qualifies? Is what you're saying that everyone who's white and British is "indigenous"? How do we know that they aren't in fact German? Or Swedish? etc.
    We don't need to justify our existence, we exist. You wouldn't dare go to Australia and start asking the aborigines ''how do you know you are indigenous'', and asking them for tests to prove so, its just plain stupid.
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    (Original post by Dux_Helvetica)
    It is people's mindsets that need to change.
    Yes. Exactly. That includes upper class ivory tower toffs, and it also includes reverse-snobbish working class.

    (Original post by Pyramidologist)
    We don't need to justify our existence, we exist. You wouldn't dare go to Australia and start asking the aborigines ''how do you know you are indigenous'', and asking them for tests to prove so, its just plain stupid.
    I'm not sure that's really a valid answer. The difference is that the Aborigines are proclaimed indigenous by outside sources. I question heavily whether half the people in this country, the "self-proclaimed" indigenous are as a matter of fact as indigenous as they think they are. Put it to the test, and I think there's a few people out there that would be in for a shock.

    Also, I suspect that if you did ask the Aborigines how they knew they were indigenous, you would receive a logical answer. Try asking a typical proletariat British guy how he knows, and he'll just hark on about being white and British without really giving you an answer that's culturally founded. And, to boot, without really understanding what "British" means.
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    (Original post by frankieboy)
    I don't think that the "white working class" actually qualify for the word "indigenous". It's used to refer to ethnic minorities who have been colonized strictly speaking, which the "whtie working class" is not.
    It's an important term because it indicates that the people in question have a legitimate homeland, by denying white working class Brits 'indigenous' status it's akin to saying that they have no right to a safe and secure territory of their own. If liberal-left ideology disseminates the view that 'ethnics' are entitled to an enhanced set of human rights it's fair to describe it as inherently racist and anti-white. The fact that it's not overt racism doesn't make it any less so.

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