[Cyanohydrin]

(Original post by jcrusader)
Are you stupid or just be ignorant to the truth. Nobody, no matter how stupid they are, would fly the flag of Israel while doing Nazi salutes. It was Celtic who broke the silence during 9/11 respects. Wasn't Celtic the only club in Britain to to protest to ban the poppy? The flag is clearly in the Rangers end held by Rangers fans, in support for Israel. For the record, we are not going anywhere, we have two highly wealthy bidders of the verge of purchasing the club. Anyway this topic is to do with the EDL not Rangers.
Glasgow celtic, always offended never ashamed.
Bobby Sands died for nothing
WATP

Rangers = Scotland's shame (and I am not the biggest fan of Celtic). Dude, I am an Scottish Protestant going back generations and generations.. I find Rangers fans, on a whole, a bunch of jokers who are an embarrassment to the United Kingdom (which I consider a worthwhile project) and to our nation of Scotland. The only time I have seen praise you from an opposition terrace is this...



..says it all really!

[. . .]

(Original post by Some random guy)
Can one of Pakistani descent be English?

Can one of German descent be the Queen of England?

[Some random guy]

(Original post by . . .)
Can one of German descent be the Queen of England?

But Germans are white. I want Mr EDL's answer.

[killer whale]

(Original post by Some random guy)
Can one of Pakistani descent be English?

It depends on how you define the term.

But if the definition is one of someone who considers themself English, that is, with English self consciousness, I don't see much evidence of it in this generation, or the previous one.

Maybe succeeding generations will integrate and become English. At the moment large parts of the community, arguably the vast majority of it want to have their cake and eat it. To have the best bits of English nationality (not living in a failed state, enjoying the rule of law, the absence of extreme poverty, feudalism and extreme religious bigotry, all of which constitute modern Pakistan) whilst remaining Pakistani.

It doesn't work like that, and we are all suffering the consequences of this split identity, with the suicide bombers, rape gangs, etc etc.

[Safiya122]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Yet they beat up Asian kids and give Nazi salutes.

Agreed ^
Yeah, so they're clearly not racists OP, I can see what you mean (sarcasm)

[de_monies]

(Original post by killer whale)
It depends on how you define the term.

But if the definition is one of someone who considers themself English, that is, with English self consciousness, I don't see much evidence of it in this generation, or the previous one.

I consider myself to be British, but not English because English is an ethnicity, whereas British is a nationality. In say Germany, then yes I suppose an immigrant could call themselves German, because German is both a nationality and an ethnicity

A Pakistani can never be English, unless of course this happens - presume that after the 1st generation, every one has mixed race kids. It's not really what happens in the real world ie: one child, and every one has mixed race kids, but it's just for an argument

1st gen Pakistani and English person marry
2nd gen child is half Pakistani, half English
3rd gen child is 1/4 Pakistani, and 3/4 English
3rd gen child marries English person
4th gen child is 1/8 and 7/8 English

etc.. etc..

My maths might be a bit off, but if I did it right, the only way a Pakistani person could call themselves English is if their parents were mixed race, and their parents etc... ie: you have to be at least third generation from a mixed race family

(Original post by killer whale)
Maybe succeeding generations will integrate and become English.

Again, I consider myself to be British and if you mean have a mixed marriage, then I'd say that it tends to be the norm that you are most attracted to your own race than others, though it's not always the case

(Original post by killer whale)
At the moment large parts of the community, arguably the vast majority of it want to have their cake and eat it. To have the best bits of English nationality (not living in a failed state

Funnily enough, it did a lot better before the Americans intervened. National sovereignty is very important

(Original post by killer whale)
the absence of extreme poverty

Depends which part of Pakistan we're talking about here

(Original post by killer whale)
feudalism

A relatively modern thing for Pakistan. The state is being split between different people, after 9/11

(Original post by killer whale)
and extreme religious bigotry

Funnily enough, Pakistan had no extremists until the Americans intervened. Also, here's someone who explains why national sovereignty is important

(Original post by killer whale)
all of which constitute modern Pakistan)

This is a movie, but this is what Pakistan was meant to be like. Skip to around the 10 minute mark, and watch till around the 11 minute mark

(Original post by killer whale)
Funnily enough, whilst remaining Pakistani.

Well of course. People can be Irish and British can't they? Or even Irish and English if they're mixed race, no?

(Original post by killer whale)
It doesn't work like that, and we are all suffering the consequences of this split identity, with the suicide bombers, rape gangs, etc etc.

Suicide bombers didn't exist in Pakistan, until after the Americans intervened. The same was the case for Iraq. Split identity, I'll give you that. Rape gangs happen with all races, however if you picture this, which one makes a better news story

"Rape gang jailed" where the gang members are mainly White or
"Pakistani rape gang jailed" etc...

Most rapists are still White (in this country), whereas of course in Pakistan, most rapists would be Pakistani

Also, most terrorists aren't Pakistani/Muslim either if you go by the Europol data

[killer whale]

(Original post by de_monies)
I consider myself to be British, but not English because English is an ethnicity, whereas British is a nationality. In say Germany, then yes I suppose an immigrant could call themselves German, because German is both a nationality and an ethnicity

A Pakistani can never be English, unless of course this happens - presume that after the 1st generation, every one has mixed race kids. It's not really what happens in the real world ie: one child, and every one has mixed race kids, but it's just for an argument

1st gen Pakistani and English person marry
2nd gen child is half Pakistani, half English
3rd gen child is 1/4 Pakistani, and 3/4 English
3rd gen child marries English person
4th gen child is 1/8 and 7/8 English

etc.. etc..

My maths might be a bit off, but if I did it right, the only way a Pakistani person could call themselves English is if their parents were mixed race, and their parents etc... ie: you have to be at least third generation from a mixed race family


Again, I consider myself to be British and if you mean have a mixed marriage, then I'd say that it tends to be the norm that you are most attracted to your own race than others, though it's not always the case


Funnily enough, it did a lot better before the Americans intervened. National sovereignty is very important


Depends which part of Pakistan we're talking about here


A relatively modern thing for Pakistan. The state is being split between different people, after 9/11


Funnily enough, Pakistan had no extremists until the Americans intervened. Also, here's someone who explains why national sovereignty is important





This is a movie, but this is what Pakistan was meant to be like. Skip to around the 10 minute mark, and watch till around the 11 minute mark



Well of course. People can be Irish and British can't they? Or even Irish and English if they're mixed race, no?



Suicide bombers didn't exist in Pakistan, until after the Americans intervened. The same was the case for Iraq. Split identity, I'll give you that. Rape gangs happen with all races, however if you picture this, which one makes a better news story

"Rape gang jailed" where the gang members are mainly White or
"Pakistani rape gang jailed" etc...

Most rapists are still White (in this country), whereas of course in Pakistan, most rapists would be Pakistani

Also, most terrorists aren't Pakistani/Muslim either if you go by the Europol data

Yours is a long, thoughtful post, and I haven't got time to give it the detailed response it deserves. So these are just a couple of quick points.

English is a nationality as well as an ethnicity. If the UK eventually breaks up into its four original constituents , (for example following a successful vote for Scottish independence) Britain would cease to exist as a concept and English would once again resume its former role as the legal nationality of those living south of the Tweed and east of Offa's Dyke.

Along with most Scots (according to opinion polls), most Welsh (my wife is Welsh so I know) and a lot of Northern Irish (this is complicated by religion) I don't feel British at all. A lot of ethnic English people do, I know, but I don't.

You ask if people can be Irish and English too. Well yes they can (Morrissey wrote a famous song "Irish blood English heart") but this is the product of centuries of intermingling and intermarriage. We would need to be in the 2500's now to truly compare Pakistani with the current Irish relationship with the English.

Moreover whether we like to admit this or not, Muslims find it harder to integrate in a post Christian society than other cultural Christians do. Even those from across the divide created by the Reformation. It is probable that the children of the current generation of Poles for example will integrate much more easily than even the grandchildren of first generation Pakistanis. That isn't because of a pale pigmentation of the skin! But because of culture, and culture comes from religion.

On your other points, I agree that American foreign policy has been misguided, but it is not a great sign of national maturity to blame foreigners for all your problems as a society. They have, after all, sent billions of dollars in aid. Which has been spent on buying arms to confront the perennial enemy India, or squandered through corruption.

The big problem in Pakistan (from which all else flows) is a broken polity. Since independence the political system has alternated between corrupt civilian regimes and military dictatorships. The big worry is will it descend into something resembling Somalia?

[Zeffy]

(Original post by Some random guy)
But Germans are white. I want Mr EDL's answer.

Racist




This man is German and he's not white. Or are you one of the close minded bigots who thinks because a person is of African descent they can't be English/German/French etc

German's are not white. Some German's are white, but some are black, brown etc.

So clear off and take your prejudiced, racist views with you fascist.

[noorul87]

look at the way they dress and behave! target non-christian communities, cause trouble, and you still sayin they not racist

[Some random guy]

(Original post by Zeffy)
Racist




This man is German and he's not white. Or are you one of the close minded bigots who thinks because a person is of African descent they can't be English/German/French etc

German's are not white. Some German's are white, but some are black, brown etc.

So clear off and take your prejudiced, racist views with you fascist.

Coming from you, that's bloody hilarious.

[Cyanohydrin]

Immigration is just a smoke-screen used to hide the real problems within a country... corporately controlled politicians...

Why blame the government, when you can blame the immigrants? They're more visible, you can hurl abuse at them, beat them around if you so wish.. try doing that to a politician... you'll be labeled a domestic terrorist.. so the governments tell me to blame the immigrants for the problems they created..

[Zeffy]

(Original post by Some random guy)


Coming from you, that's bloody hilarious.

When have I ever posted something racist?

Opposing an evil idealogy that preaches hatred, violence, homophobia, murder, paedofilia and treats women lower than dogs isn't racist. It's a duty that every free-thinking, educated intellectual should do.

I, unlike you, am not blinded by media lies and bias. I see the truth and I am smart enough and enlightened enough to chose my own path and make my own decisions rather than parroting what other people say.

Which is why I am here, to educate and enlighten the ignorant masses such as yourself because I, as one of the true enlightened individuals, see that as my duty.

[Pyramidologist]

(Original post by Some random guy)
Can one of Pakistani descent be English?

No. Can a Swedish person if they move to Australia become an Australian Aborigine? Immigrants don't become the indigenous population.

[jcrusader]

(Original post by Left Hand Drive)
So you llot thought the best way to show support for Israel would be a straight arm salute? FFS...

You lot have been telling us that for weeks, we'll see your club is ****ed.

Rangers bye bye You certainly are the people. We however are the CHAMPIONS

Enjoy your tainted title.
Lemon will get whats coming to him sooner or later.

[Incorrect.]

Of course the BNP aren't racist...

..just like the Nazis were not racist because they included one black man (Jesse Owens) in their Olympic squad, right?

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by jcrusader)
Enjoy your tainted title.
Lemon will get whats coming to him sooner or later.

Are the Rangers still harping on about this? Sonny, Celtic were 4 points ahead before you had any sort of deduction, and are 20 points clear of Rangers - They'd have won the title regardless of the points deduction.
Besides, you've no-one to blame but yourself for the taxmans wrath.

[Left Hand Drive]

(Original post by jcrusader)
Enjoy your tainted title.
Lemon will get whats coming to him sooner or later.

So our title is tainted because you lot couldn't play by the rules?! Why are you lot so stupid, I mean as if a straight arm salute in support of Israel wasn't bad enough you come out with the tainted title pish. FFS.

The only thing coming to Neil Lennon is the SPL trophy!

Get it right ****ing up you, ya bitter hun!

[Cyanohydrin]

tainted title. wtf you talking about pal?

Go and try and save "the big huuuse" from crumbling..

[jcrusader]

(Original post by Left Hand Drive)
So our title is tainted because you lot couldn't play by the rules?! Why are you lot so stupid, I mean as if a straight arm salute in support of Israel wasn't bad enough you come out with the tainted title pish. FFS.

The only thing coming to Neil Lennon is the SPL trophy!

Get it right ****ing up you, ya bitter hun!

Yes because a ten point deduction had absolutely no affect on the teams phycological state, did it? He knows he achieved nothing this year.

Hopefully the UVF will stop round and have a nice cup of tea with the ginger rat.

[Cmca1]

Unfortunately, its groups like the EDL who ruin being English. Anyone now who is non-racist and non-sectarian who believes in English nationalism and who is proud to be English is immediately characterised by they EDL.

I'm not English, so as an outsiders view, to me it seems that being English is less acceptable than being Irish, Scottish or Welsh.