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Why do the liberal left lack the ability to tell the truth?

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    Case in point, the SWP's article on the Luton demo.

    "The racist English Defence League (EDL) had its hopes of a triumphant homecoming dashed yesterday (Saturday) when it was outnumbered three to one by anti-fascists on the streets of Luton.

    Only a few hundred EDL members turned up. They had to rally on the far side of the town centre surrounded by police to protect them.

    Up to 2,000 marched in the “We Are Luton” counter-demonstration organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF) and a coalition of local trade unions and community groups. And many more guarded their mosques from EDL thugs.£

    http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=28382




    Are they that worried about the EDL and that disappointed with their own performance that they feel the need to constantly lie?

    A few hundred EDL? Sorry for the official police report and every news report gives a number of around 3000 EDL. A claim backed up by videos of the march which show a very good turnout.

    The very same police statements and news reports give a UAF/WAL turnout of just under a thousand.

    Do lib-tards lack the ability to count? Or do they realise that the EDL truly and utterly outnumbered them in Luton and so need to lie to try and hide their own failures and inadequecies.

    Oddly enough, for a group claiming to be Anti-fascist they do engage in some very fascist opinions of their own. Like their current hate campaign against a Tory councilor who used her own freedom of speech to show support the EDL and now is been hounded out of ther office by the UAF and other lefties who can't stand that some people have an opinion that differs from their own.

    As Churchill once said, "The fascists of the future will be called Antifascists" and he was 100% correct.

    From hounding people out of their jobs purely for expressing a viewpoint that's different than their own and having different political beliefs to even full on attacks, even against children, who they disagree with. Antifascists believe in freedom of speech only if you say what they agree with.

    They are the true fascists.
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    Because no one would vote for them if they told the truth.
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    Churchill never said that anti-fascists quote FYI.

    In fact it came from a Louisiana senator by the name of Huey Long who said "When Fascism comes to America, it will (be in the name of/come under the guise of/be called) anti-Fascism!"

    Felt like I should clear that up due to the rabid worship of Churchill which often converts anything he says into biblical truths, despite his somewhat questionable views on British imperialism.
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    I always get a good laugh reading the socialist press in my university library.
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    I think you'll find the Centre and Right lie just as much.
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    Whereas the EDL, the BNP and their likes, are paragons of truth and fidelity...
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    (Original post by Zeffy)
    A few hundred EDL? Sorry for the official police report and every news report gives a number of around 3000 EDL. A claim backed up by videos of the march which show a very good turnout.
    3000 is still a few hundred. I suppose it's how you like to phrase your words ie: I wouldn't use thousands when it's only 2/3, and I would use hundreds, or more accurately 3000

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    Do lib-tards lack the ability to count?
    If you hadn't realised, 3000 is 30 hundred's so they are right by saying "a few hundred" Again, with the lib-tard argument. It says more about you than liberals, and it annoys me as well because I like to say I'm centrist, but compared to you I'm most definitely liberal. And then there's the fact of which axis we're talking about here. I'm guessing you're talking socially, as opposed to economically. There are many liberal people who are right wing economically

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    Or do they realise that the EDL truly and utterly outnumbered them in Luton and so need to lie to try and hide their own failures and inadequecies.
    3000 IS a few hundred

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    Oddly enough, for a group claiming to be Anti-fascist they do engage in some very fascist opinions of their own. Like their current hate campaign against a Tory councilor who used her own freedom of speech to show support the EDL and now is been hounded out of ther office by the UAF and other lefties who can't stand that some people have an opinion that differs from their own.
    Source? Also, I do agree that it's hypocritical to ban someone because they disagree with you

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    As Churchill once said, "The fascists of the future will be called Antifascists" and he was 100% correct.
    Churchill didn't say that, as explained

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    From hounding people out of their jobs purely for expressing a viewpoint that's different than their own and having different political beliefs to even full on attacks, even against children, who they disagree with.
    With all due respect, to hound someone out of their job for having a viewpoint is completely allowed by democracy. You have the freedom to ask for their removal, and if you keep lobbying enough, it might work.

    (Original post by Zeffy)
    Antifascists believe in freedom of speech only if you say what they agree with.

    They are the true fascists.
    Really? Here's what your leader thinks about the democratically elected people of Luton

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...3#post37416333

    He then proceeds to cause the newly elected candidates extremists. I really, really hope that they bring a case against him for libel.

    Also, I'd like to say I don't support or read "thesocialistworker" I prefer my broadsheets
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    For precisely the same reason as the centre and the right wing lie. It's politics, and it works just the same as any media-facing role. If they said "we were hideously outnumbered," they'd be slaughtered, because it's almost as bad as saying "we did really badly at XYZ thing."

    Self-deprecation wins neither votes nor popularity.
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    Stupid, pointless thread. Stupid, pointless OP. "The socialist worker" is a self-proclaimed "Anti-Capitalist Paper". Ofc, it's got a political bias, ofc it's reporting is unreliable. It is self-proclaimed propaganda. You'll notice when the EDL and BNP distribute their leaflets they also leave out some of the facts. Actually, they downright lie.
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    I find it funny that you say "Liberal left" like we didn't know what it meant to be left or right wing. Should we then say "Right wing right" ?
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    (Original post by Zeffy)
    As Churchill once said, "The fascists of the future will be called Antifascists"
    No he didn't.

    From hounding people out of their jobs purely for expressing a viewpoint that's different than their own and having different political beliefs to even full on attacks, even against children, who they disagree with. Antifascists believe in freedom of speech only if you say what they agree with.
    The vast majority of people will not attack you for being a racist, but instead simply shun you for having ridiculously unpleasant beliefs.


    (Original post by de_monies)
    I find it funny that you say "Liberal left" like we didn't know what it meant to be left or right wing. Should we then say "Right wing right" ?
    Sorry, what?

    Speaking as a very firmly right-wing liberal, I really have no idea what you're on about.
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    Basically, anyone who agrees with any fervently nationalist/xenophobic party or ideology has no place in any form of society - seriously, your views died back with colonialism (although of course some argue that it continues and so will xenophobia blah blah blah).

    Anyone who agrees with fairness and a certain presumption and standard of equality, you're the way forward.

    Anyone who propagates far-right ideology should be rightfully marginalised from these boards and from the society at large because you're generally a disgrace. Go away. Stop thinking about only yourself. You'll be the death of us.

    Yes, I've drunk a not-significant amount and I don't care if this person isn't actually an EDL defender but it looks like it and therefore you seriously need to take a look at yourself. I needn't defend my views because they're quite obviously right. The day a right-wing defender criticises the accuracy of the reporting of left-wing liberal press is a day when all our sides will be aching from laughter because, clearly, either you don't know your history or you're choosing to ignore it completely. Understand life. Thanks.
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    I find it funny that you say "Liberal left" like we didn't know what it meant to be left or right wing. Should we then say "Right wing right" ?
    That would be a pleonasm and no more understandable for a reader without an appreciation of the left/right political spectrum.

    Much better equivalent: Conservative right

    Left-liberal is mainstream terminology, it's hardly a slur.
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    (Original post by Aquinas)
    Basically, anyone who agrees with any fervently nationalist/xenophobic party or ideology has no place in any form of society - seriously, your views died back with colonialism (although of course some argue that it continues and so will xenophobia blah blah blah).

    Anyone who agrees with fairness and a certain presumption and standard of equality, you're the way forward.

    Anyone who propagates far-right ideology should be rightfully marginalised from these boards and from the society at large because you're generally a disgrace. Go away. Stop thinking about only yourself. You'll be the death of us.

    Yes, I've drunk a not-significant amount and I don't care if this person isn't actually an EDL defender but it looks like it and therefore you seriously need to take a look at yourself. I needn't defend my views because they're quite obviously right. The day a right-wing defender criticises the accuracy of the reporting of left-wing liberal press is a day when all our sides will be aching from laughter because, clearly, either you don't know your history or you're choosing to ignore it completely. Understand life. Thanks.
    I agree that (ethno)nationalism is not going to work in the modern developed world and certainly oppose the policies of BNP, EDL or similar. But I am uncomfortable "marginalising" or suppressing anyone who does believe in non-integration of races, opposes miscegenation, even believes that whites are better human beings unless they are openly hateful and/or violent.

    The people who would be justified in suppressing are seriously racist, even more anti-Semitic neo-Nazis in a netherworld beyond the BNP, who BNP members openly disavow as they would lose their marginal mainstream status (nationwide party with over 1 million voters) and their pretensions to "not being racist [any more]" which are doubtful at best. National Front, Combat 18, Blood & Honour, various front groups who advertise on Stormfront or Vanguard. This lot need to be watched carefully by government as they are dangerous if allowed to get out of hand, and if they put some of the statements in their literature on placards in public they would definitely be subject to arrest for incitement either to racial hatred or violence.
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    (Original post by Zeffy)
    Case in point, the SWP's article on the Luton demo.

    "The racist English Defence League (EDL) had its hopes of a triumphant homecoming dashed yesterday (Saturday) when it was outnumbered three to one by anti-fascists on the streets of Luton.

    Only a few hundred EDL members turned up. They had to rally on the far side of the town centre surrounded by police to protect them.

    Up to 2,000 marched in the “We Are Luton” counter-demonstration organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF) and a coalition of local trade unions and community groups. And many more guarded their mosques from EDL thugs.£

    http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=28382

    Are they that worried about the EDL and that disappointed with their own performance that they feel the need to constantly lie?

    A few hundred EDL? Sorry for the official police report and every news report gives a number of around 3000 EDL. A claim backed up by videos of the march which show a very good turnout.

    The very same police statements and news reports give a UAF/WAL turnout of just under a thousand.

    Do lib-tards lack the ability to count? Or do they realise that the EDL truly and utterly outnumbered them in Luton and so need to lie to try and hide their own failures and inadequecies.

    Oddly enough, for a group claiming to be Anti-fascist they do engage in some very fascist opinions of their own. Like their current hate campaign against a Tory councilor who used her own freedom of speech to show support the EDL and now is been hounded out of ther office by the UAF and other lefties who can't stand that some people have an opinion that differs from their own.

    As Churchill once said, "The fascists of the future will be called Antifascists" and he was 100% correct.

    From hounding people out of their jobs purely for expressing a viewpoint that's different than their own and having different political beliefs to even full on attacks, even against children, who they disagree with. Antifascists believe in freedom of speech only if you say what they agree with.

    They are the true fascists.

    I think you're slightly confused - SWP is not liberal left; it is far left which renders this entire point you're making moot
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    The OP also claims that the EDL are no racist; I thought you said it's the left-wing that lie?
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    (Original post by Carecup)
    Churchill never said that anti-fascists quote FYI.

    In fact it came from a Louisiana senator by the name of Huey Long who said "When Fascism comes to America, it will (be in the name of/come under the guise of/be called) anti-Fascism!"

    Felt like I should clear that up due to the rabid worship of Churchill which often converts anything he says into biblical truths, despite his somewhat questionable views on British imperialism.
    Louisiana, like the rest of the US is now hit with misinformation and bias from super-liberal MSNBC: charming Rachel "let unborn babies die" Maddow leads a pack who don't include a single proper conservative. The fact that "The Young Turks" support them says it all! Government healthcare for everyone! Raise those taxes! Enterprise is EVIL! Understand violent criminals and sympathise for their bad childhood, unless they're right wingers, then bang them up for life! Government can't control your body but consider taxing fat people! Biased language- "anti-choice", "marriage equality", "psycho talk" for a section calling out highly conservative remarks which are SOMETIMES but by no means always racist/sexist/hate. Some are falsely claimed to be for the purpose of "discrediting" respectable conservatives.

    Vive la FOX NEWS... They are not perfect, I do keep track of their lies too, but they are generally far more reliable than MSNBC: Metropolitan Socialist Nancy/Barack Collective.

    They used to have Pat Buchanan, whose views are so extreme that I am led to believe he was only ever there for liberals to mock, before kicking him out for racism a couple months ago. He has been openly racist all his life, with Suicide of a Superpower including little other than re-hashing of his oft repeated past nonsense about "white America" being "overrun with blacks and Jews" (I paraphrase slightly) which adds to the impression of his presence being a stunt.
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    (Original post by ScheduleII)
    Louisiana, like the rest of the US is now hit with misinformation and bias from super-liberal MSNBC: charming Rachel "let unborn babies die" Maddow leads a pack who don't include a single proper conservative. The fact that "The Young Turks" support them says it all! Government healthcare for everyone! Raise those taxes! Enterprise is EVIL! Understand violent criminals and sympathise for their bad childhood, unless they're right wingers, then bang them up for life! Government can't control your body but consider taxing fat people! Biased language- "anti-choice", "marriage equality", "psycho talk" for a section calling out highly conservative remarks which are SOMETIMES but by no means always racist/sexist/hate. Some are falsely claimed to be for the purpose of "discrediting" respectable conservatives.

    Vive la FOX NEWS... They are not perfect, I do keep track of their lies too, but they are generally far more reliable than MSNBC: Metropolitan Socialist Nancy/Barack Collective.

    They used to have Pat Buchanan, whose views are so extreme that I am led to believe he was only ever there for liberals to mock, before kicking him out for racism a couple months ago. He has been openly racist all his life, with Suicide of a Superpower including little other than re-hashing of his oft repeated past nonsense about "white America" being "overrun with blacks and Jews" (I paraphrase slightly) which adds to the impression of his presence being a stunt.
    This is very relevant to the current discussion.

    I could go through your post and point out all the right wing dumbness in it but I don't want to completely derail the thread so I won't.
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    (Original post by Carecup)
    This is very relevant to the current discussion.

    I could go through your post and point out all the right wing dumbness in it but I don't want to completely derail the thread so I won't.
    The current discussion is about left and right wing bias/lies so it is relevant to explain that left-liberal bias goes beyond the UK. MSNBC is the worst overall example of it I have seen in the mainstream media, worse than CNN, NBC, ABC or NY Times by a long way.

    This is the UK Politics, I'm more used to debating in Society, but plenty of other people post about other countries by way of comparison or explanation. Hey, the NHS threads have dozens of references to the American system- once half the debate was whether we'd want that.

    Plus YOU are biased- "dumbness"? It is simply NOT "right-wing dumbness" to point out left-wing media lies or bias, and surely you're not going to deny that MSNBC is left-wing?

    I have seen your hardline pro-abort BS about how unborn babies are "parasitic balls of cells" and they aren't alive until birth "because the law says so" (life is a biological process, not a legal institution, so Parliament don't decide who is alive- biologists, doctors and embryologists define life as from conception and say as much in standard medical textbooks.) Feminist rhetoric about choice combined with lies about the unborn baby, which is a living boy or girl the same species as its mother and so by definition not a parasite, usually shows a lack of morality which is reflected in many other areas and leads to severe liberalism.
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    (Original post by ScheduleII)
    I agree that (ethno)nationalism is not going to work in the modern developed world and certainly oppose the policies of BNP, EDL or similar. But I am uncomfortable "marginalising" or suppressing anyone who does believe in non-integration of races, opposes miscegenation, even believes that whites are better human beings unless they are openly hateful and/or violent.

    The people who would be justified in suppressing are seriously racist, even more anti-Semitic neo-Nazis in a netherworld beyond the BNP, who BNP members openly disavow as they would lose their marginal mainstream status (nationwide party with over 1 million voters) and their pretensions to "not being racist [any more]" which are doubtful at best. National Front, Combat 18, Blood & Honour, various front groups who advertise on Stormfront or Vanguard. This lot need to be watched carefully by government as they are dangerous if allowed to get out of hand, and if they put some of the statements in their literature on placards in public they would definitely be subject to arrest for incitement either to racial hatred or violence.
    Haha, I wrote that when I was drunk and the idea of someone trying to defend the, quite frankly absurd, position that the Right would be justified in criticizing the handling of 'fact' (none of the methods they put forward were an empirical verification), considering the methods which a follower of said position would feel justified, just annoyed me.

    But, yes, I do agree that they should be carefully watched, but be marginalized I meant that their views should be marginalized from the mainstream, rather than exiling them to Siberia as it were.

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