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Multiculturalism v Uniculturalism? THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

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  • View Poll Results: MULTICULTURALISM V UNICULTURALISM
    MULTICULTURALISM
    44
    54.32%
    UNICULTURALISM
    37
    45.68%

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    (Original post by StuPro)
    If you wish to cite a source for your statement of, 'orchestrated deaths of.....'

    My statement regarding a point of fact from the life of the Prophet Muhammad was to just state an example of women's rights within the history of Islam. If you wish to begin a dispute a historical event, then dispute my statement at hand.

    If you wish to point out the genocide of proponents of a particular religion, then I call Hitler to the stand. A white, self-labelled Christian. But that is superfluous to our discussion. Your statement in no way contradicts my assertion of evidencing women's rights in Islam. A poor response. You could have searched google and come up with contemporary evidence that would have been more credit worthy.

    Irish culture is more like British culture than Islamic culture. For a start, what is Islamic culture? I presume you are a UK national by the content of your ramblings, how up to date is your knowledge of the World. For a start, when recalling the example of Irish immigration to England I was actually referring to the attitude of the general population to this influx. It was a comparison of your attitude today to the attitude of people then and how with time people realise how utterly stupid it is. Not a direct comparison of Irish and Islamic culture.

    Next point, marital rape was only outlawed in this country in 1991, it is still illegal for homosexual couples to marry, etc, etc. To say that this country is tolerant is not exactly true. You, today, are a clear demonstration. Further, this is a debate about multiculturalism, not religion. If you wish to include religion then let us return to our pagan roots. Also, if you did not know, Jesus was not white. Nor, is Father Christmas real. Tell me, why can you be so accepting and supportive of the influx of one middle eastern religion but not another? Neither have white origins.

    If you wish to compare and contrast religions, then start a new thread. I am in no way a proponent of either religion, nor do I hold enough knowledge of either to enter a serious debate.

    I am not concerned about media as I am able to disseminate fact from fiction, subjective from the objective. There are others in this country that cannot. For example, you and your ilk are bandying around the statement 'genocide by mass immigration', a quick google clearly shows this sentence being popularised and distributed widely as an anti immigration slogan. Point demonstrated.

    None of my statements have in anyway shown I am anti-white. Do you believe in evolution by the way? How do you suppose that the differences in our skin tones, etc, came about? Where are homo-sapiens believed to have originated?

    If you really wish to help the 'white race' I suggest you start a new thread arguing against sun tanning, sun beds, fake tan, hair extensions and duck face.

    I will not be replying to any more of your drivel as I am no longer prepared to provide you a platform. Good luck in life and all the best.
    tl;dr - you just wasted 5 minutes of your life :rofl:

    http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamra...nd-Khaybar.htm
    After the Battle of the Ditch, when the coalition force of Quraish left the battle field, Prophet Muhammad attacked the last of the large Jewish tribes of Medina, the Banu Qurayza. After a 25 days siege, they (Jews) surrender unconditionally. In the end, all 600-700 males of the tribe were killed and the women and children sold into slavery
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    (Original post by StuPro)
    Referring to me being anti-white I recall your previous post.
    What is this I don't even...

    Since when did ethnicity come into this?
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    Why do you have to go post such stupid sources - it just goads me into replying.

    I am not a proponent of Islam. Lets just get this straight. I just have a real issue with where you are getting these so-called facts from. Also, you have posted the appropriate couple of lines, however, what you have done is remove the word 'Gist:' immediately prior. The quote you have provided is from a website, who are paraphrasing to their own ends, a text, that has been translated from another language. You really need to learn to understand the provenance of your sources.....

    The site is run by, and written by, people who have left the Islamic faith and have purposefully written the website in order to discourage believers or those interested in Islam. If you had actually quoted a historian or a historical text I would have believed you. However, we all know how people can write subjectively about past events and interpretation of text. Tell me, have you read any of the translations of Ibn-Ishaq's texts. Do you know if it is a first hand account?

    Like I said earlier, I am not here to defend a particular religion. I just take issue with self-serving propaganda.

    You held up the British as being tolerant, etc, etc and keep on ranting about genocide of the white population. Here is a 'fact' for you, a study by ORB international has estimated over 1,000,000 Iraqis have been murdered since the invasion in 2003. These results were published in 2007. The link to a press release is below, follow a link to ORB International to find out about who they are. Do not trust my word on it! Anyway, how many British white people do you feel have been murdered since 2003 as a result of its immigration policy? How does this compare to your 'genocide by mass immigration'.

    Our policy is by no means perfect, nor do we as a nation always follow correct international protocol. We clearly have a lot to learn as a nation still.

    Anyway goodnight. Please do not post anything more about religion or skin colour to me as it is nothing to do with this thread. I suppose if you want to relate shariah law in the British legal system or something then go ahead, but you will not have me responding to it. Also, reserve from branding me anti-white, I really am not. I really do take offence to that accusation and feel it is slanderous. I am not branding you a racist, as I am sure if your argument was taken by somebody with an education and the appropriate skills then they may be able to produce figures of the predicted future demographic of this country. That then, may be a point for serious debate and question.

    I apologise for how condescending I have been throughout my posts. I really do suggest though you research and read more into what you feel you believe at this moment in time. Also get to the root of the figures, accounts being quoted. At least then, you may be able to adequately defend it without resorting to name calling. I take no issue with accepting facts, just poorly constructed subjective assertions.

    Again, I will repeat, this thread is about multiculturalism vs uniculturalism, not the perceived extinction of Caucasians.
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    http://www.zcommunications.org/more-...nvasion-by-orb
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    What is this I don't even...

    Since when did ethnicity come into this?
    Since my post a previous post where I was accused of being anti-white has been moderated and removed. It went along the lines of my statement of that I am white is exactly the kind of thing an anti-white would state, etc, etc. I sincerely apologise if it was not you, unfortunately I cannot now remember the poster as I am very tired.

    However, I have been addressing you and another poster in my replies. By your response I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that it was the other poster, so please take it as that. I will edit my post to remove the quote.
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    Just checked, it was 100% not you and so I am sorry to have said it was. I have removed the post. Trying to reply to three people whilst tired not a good mix.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    I think race is more important than culture.
    With that kind of statement, I think you need to clarify what you mean by the word "race".
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Social policy? Are you serious? You think British culture should be reducable to whatever government policies dictate. You're in danger of identifying yourself as a cultural fascist.
    You're getting my point backwards here. I'm not saying that social policy decides culture. What I am saying is culture decides social policy. There are things that are in British culture (and western culture in general) that define our laws. You have only to look to countries in Africa, the Middle East and Far East to see different social policies are based on different cultural norms and values (religion in particular). Different cultures see different things as acceptable, unacceptable, normal, taboo, etc etc. The more different the culture is, the more norms and values that are likely to be different, and the more social interests and tolerances that are likely to conflict, thus causing difficulties in establishing fair and effective social policy for the population to live by and social cohesion.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    You're getting my point backwards here. I'm not saying that social policy decides culture. What I am saying is culture decides social policy. .
    by culture, do you mean any predominant (socio-political) ideology espoused by the populace and government, as well as the econometrics of immigration? I don't think it's that simple @ culture decides social policy.


    (Original post by Tahooper)
    So that they can actually get along with each other, what did you think the point of multiculturalism was in the first place?
    you tell me.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Events

    c. 950,000 or 840,000 BC
    Flints worked in south-eastern Britain.
    c. 250,000 BC
    Swanscombe Man (actually a woman), the oldest known human remains in Britain.
    c. 180,000 BC
    English Channel forms, separating Britain from the mainland.
    c. 26,000 BC
    Cave-dwelling Upper Paleolithic peoples in Britain.
    c. 10,000 BC
    Last Ice Age ends.
    c. 8300 BC
    Mesolithic period begins.
    c. 4000 BC
    Neolithic period begins in Britain, introducing the first agriculture.
    c. 3000 BC
    First henge monuments.
    c. 2600 BC
    Main phase of construction at Stonehenge begins, replacing earlier wooden and earthen works.
    c. 2300 BC
    Arrival of the Beaker People in Britain.
    c. 1800 BC
    Wessex culture brings bronze-working to Britain.
    c. 1600 BC
    Last construction at Stonehenge.
    c. 1400 BC
    Wessex culture replaced by more agrarian peoples; stone circles and early hillforts produced.
    c. 800 BC
    Celts bring iron working to Britain; Hallstatt Culture.
    c. 400 BC
    Parisi tribe from northern France settle in Yorkshire.
    First brochs constructed.
    c. 330 BC
    Pytheas of Massilia circumnavigates Britain.
    c. 300 BC
    La Tene artwork introduced from northern France.
    c. 100 BC
    First wave of Belgic invaders settle in the south-east, establishing the Catuvellauni and Trinovantes tribes.
    First coins introduced.
    c. 80 BC
    Second wave of Belgic invaders settle in Sussex, Berkshire, and Hampshire, establishing the Atrebates and Regnenses tribes.
    55 BC
    Commius, chieftain of the Atrebates, captured by the British after serving as an envoy to Rome.
    26 August - Julius Caesar lands between Deal and Walmer, wins skirmishes against the British, and frees Commius.
    31 August - Britons in war-chariots defeat the Romans. Romans return to Gaul.
    54 BC
    July - Julius Caesar invades Britain and defeats the Catuvellauni under Cassivellaunus.
    September - Tribute fixed, and peace agreed between the Catevellauni and the Trinovantes, allied with Rome. Romans return to Gaul.[2]
    50 BC
    Fleeing to Britain after a failed revolt in Gaul, Commius becomes chieftain of the Atrebates.
    34 BC
    Emperor Octavian makes an alliance with the Atrebates and Trinovantes.
    c. 25 BC
    Tincommius, leader of the Atrebates, issues Roman-style coinage.




    (Original post by StuPro)
    Why do you have to go post such stupid sources - it just goads me into replying.

    I am not a proponent of Islam. Lets just get this straight. I just have a real issue with where you are getting these so-called facts from. Also, you have posted the appropriate couple of lines, however, what you have done is remove the word 'Gist:' immediately prior. The quote you have provided is from a website, who are paraphrasing to their own ends, a text, that has been translated from another language. You really need to learn to understand the provenance of your sources.....

    The site is run by, and written by, people who have left the Islamic faith and have purposefully written the website in order to discourage believers or those interested in Islam. If you had actually quoted a historian or a historical text I would have believed you. However, we all know how people can write subjectively about past events and interpretation of text. Tell me, have you read any of the translations of Ibn-Ishaq's texts. Do you know if it is a first hand account?

    Like I said earlier, I am not here to defend a particular religion. I just take issue with self-serving propaganda.

    You held up the British as being tolerant, etc, etc and keep on ranting about genocide of the white population. Here is a 'fact' for you, a study by ORB international has estimated over 1,000,000 Iraqis have been murdered since the invasion in 2003. These results were published in 2007. The link to a press release is below, follow a link to ORB International to find out about who they are. Do not trust my word on it! Anyway, how many British white people do you feel have been murdered since 2003 as a result of its immigration policy? How does this compare to your 'genocide by mass immigration'.

    Our policy is by no means perfect, nor do we as a nation always follow correct international protocol. We clearly have a lot to learn as a nation still.

    Anyway goodnight. Please do not post anything more about religion or skin colour to me as it is nothing to do with this thread. I suppose if you want to relate shariah law in the British legal system or something then go ahead, but you will not have me responding to it. Also, reserve from branding me anti-white, I really am not. I really do take offence to that accusation and feel it is slanderous. I am not branding you a racist, as I am sure if your argument was taken by somebody with an education and the appropriate skills then they may be able to produce figures of the predicted future demographic of this country. That then, may be a point for serious debate and question.

    I apologise for how condescending I have been throughout my posts. I really do suggest though you research and read more into what you feel you believe at this moment in time. Also get to the root of the figures, accounts being quoted. At least then, you may be able to adequately defend it without resorting to name calling. I take no issue with accepting facts, just poorly constructed subjective assertions.

    Again, I will repeat, this thread is about multiculturalism vs uniculturalism, not the perceived extinction of Caucasians.

    http://bit.ly/JlDk81
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    Multiculturalism hasnt worked anyway, its just a number of communities keeping to themselves and being slightly suspicious and isolated from the others. Tell me im wrong or that we've truly intergrated into a thriving culturally rich society with a straight face.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Multiculturalism hasnt worked anyway, its just a number of communities keeping to themselves and being slightly suspicious and isolated from the others. Tell me im wrong or that we've truly intergrated into a thriving culturally rich society with a straight face.
    Depends on how you see multiculturalism. There is many fine examples of multiculturalism in the world, but the reason you don't think about them is because you see them as a normal part of your everyday life.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Multiculturalism hasnt worked anyway, its just a number of communities keeping to themselves and being slightly suspicious and isolated from the others. Tell me im wrong or that we've truly intergrated into a thriving culturally rich society with a straight face.
    What is 'integration' and what does it achieve?
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    Eating foreign-based food does not mean you follow whatever culture that food came from :facepalm2:
    Food is an aspect of human cultural life, as is music, as are clothing preferences, so you're making a category error. The three examples I give here prove overwhelmingly that when people have cultural freedom they take up all kinds of multicultural orientations. You can't plausibly argue that things like food preferences aren't examples of culture just because they don't fit your position.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Multiculturalism hasnt worked anyway, its just a number of communities keeping to themselves and being slightly suspicious and isolated from the others. Tell me im wrong or that we've truly intergrated into a thriving culturally rich society with a straight face.
    I think you're confusing multiculturalism with integrationism.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    I think you're confusing multiculturalism with integrationism.
    How can people of different cultures do anything other than segregate themselves? If one culture believes in democracy and equal rights for women (like modern Christianity/Judaism) and another culture believes in theocracy and unequal rights for women (like but not limited to Islam etc.) then of course they are not going to get a long which is where multiculturalism falls short.
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    How can people of different cultures do anything other than segregate themselves? If one culture believes in democracy and equal rights for women (like modern Christianity/Judaism) and another culture believes in theocracy and unequal rights for women (like but not limited to Islam etc.) then of course they are not going to get a long which is where multiculturalism falls short.
    I'm sorry. But what religious books and studies have you read to come to these conclusions?
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    I am not vilifying anybody in particular, but it is no lie that Islam is much more intolerant religion than the likes of Christianity and Judaism, even Hinduism and Sikhism are more tolerant than the religious cesspit that is Islam.
    What was this supposed to imply?
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    (Original post by SaintSoldier)
    What was this supposed to imply?
    That most middle-eastern/asian religions have became more tolerant in recent years.
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    (Original post by FatCharlie)
    I'm sorry. But what religious books and studies have you read to come to these conclusions?
    Please actually read what I said before replying.
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    (Original post by Tahooper)
    That most middle-eastern/asian religions have became more tolerant in recent years.
    With the implication that Sikhism wasn't tolerant in the past?

    If that is what you were implying, then you are quite clearly wrong.

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