[SweetsAndSugar]

When will some people learn, being equal =/= being the same.

[najinaji]

(Original post by Kaaal)
But imagine if two people were married and they had the same title... Rather than Mr and Mrs Smith it would be Mr and Mr Smith/Mrs and Mrs Smith or whatever other title you would be given in the place of gender-based ones, imagine how much confusion that would cause!

This thread smells of feminist.

You could call them 'the Smiths (har har)' or simply 'the Mrs Smith [as in 'the Misters Smith']'. 'Mr' could be singular, 'Mrs' plural. Or you could just call them 'John and Mary Smith'.

(Original post by Bey Taco)
You have got to question if gender matters so little then what is wrong with addressing a person as miss/mrs or mr? Surely if they are equal then whether we call them sir or madam serves no purpose other than for formality ? If this phrase is so insignificant then it obviously makes no difference whether we use it or not ? You are fooling yourself if you feel that men and women are being separated by the use of a simple word. There is a beauty in understanding our differences and celebrating them. I wouldnt want to be addressed as a mary. I feel that you are infact degrading women and forcing equality and suffocating people by not allowing them to speak out when it can actually occur naturally. In addition, sometimes it is best to be acknowledged by others as a male or female, gives you a belonging, identity, a somebody or someone.

Sometimes male and female must do things differently even though it seems illogical in order to feel some sort of celebration for their gender. This, although irrational feels great. Pick up a tool son and do some DIY, you will see how great it feels. This feeling is equavalent to a female in a dress. It by no means makes us less equavalent.

I think you are forgetting the existence of:
a) One's appearance
b) One's forename

Both of these are good indicators of a person's gender. If you do not have access to either of these pieces of information, and have the authority to ask what gender they are, you could do just that. Ask. Or you could have a set of two boxes to be crossed saying either 'M' or 'F'.

[Bey Taco]

(Original post by najinaji)
.


I think you are forgetting the existence of:
a) One's appearance
b) One's forename

Both of these are good indicators of a person's gender. If you do not have access to either of these pieces of information, and have the authority to ask what gender they are, you could do just that. Ask. Or you could have a set of two boxes to be crossed saying either 'M' or 'F'.

Your point here is... gender based titles should be scrapped because of the existance of the two examples? What difference does it make to include another, more formal way to identify someone? I do not know which way you are arguing, we may be on the same side... Is this just a addition to my post to emphasize the reason why scrapping gender based titles is stupid?

[sarahthegemini]

What if you were calling someone in for an appointment and there was both a Miss.Smith and a Mr.Smith, calling them simply without the gender prefix would cause confusion.

[NB_ide]

Everyone is equal

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by NB_ide)
Everyone is equal

No.

[najinaji]

(Original post by Bey Taco)
Your point here is... gender based titles should be scrapped because of the existance of the two examples? What difference does it make to include another, more formal way to identify someone? I do not know which way you are arguing, we may be on the same side... Is this just a addition to my post to emphasize the reason why scrapping gender based titles is stupid?

Because it is unnecessary, can lead to unnecessary confusion and is asking for a piece of information that they may not necessarily have the right to know. This is a fairly extreme example, but let me use it anyway:

Alex Brown has moved to a new town, and wishes to get a library card. They are an FtM transsexual, but have not yet gone through the process to change their legal gender [as in, they have not applied for a new birth certificate yet]. On the form, it asks for his name, address, telephone number, email address etc., which he is happy to give. It also asks for his sex/gender via a title and by the ticking of 'M' or 'F'. He does not wish to supply this information.

Alex later goes to register with the nearby doctor's surgery. It asks for the usual information, and also asks for his sex/gender. He is happy to tick 'F', as they are asking purely for medical reasons. He also knows that the information about his transition will be supplied to his GP and they will treat him accordingly.

Do you see the difference?

(Original post by Jordan_1)
No.

You do not believe that everyone is of equal value as a human being?

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by najinaji)


You do not believe that everyone is of equal value as a human being?

Equal value as a human being? Yes, excluding criminals.

Equal as in the same no. For example Men are the stronger gender when it comes to physicality and they always will be.

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
You really are a retard hahahaha. So in the end you do agree with me that they are different therefore not equal? Congratulations

Lol you really should learn how to understand English and how to read a complex sentence. I clearly stated how being different does not make them unequal. Equal does no mean exactly the same. apparently that's too complicated for you to understand though.

[sconter]

men and women arent the same /thread

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
Lol you really should learn how to understand English and how to read a complex sentence. I clearly stated how being different does not make them unequal. Equal does no mean exactly the same. apparently that's too complicated for you to understand though.

Being different does make them unequal in every sense apart from value to society. Why are you finding this so hard to understand?

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
Being different does make them unequal in every sense apart from value to society. Why are you finding this so hard to understand?

If they have the same value to society then they fit the definition of being equal, despite the fact that they have differences. What part of this aren't you getting?

[Bey Taco]

(Original post by najinaji)
Because it is unnecessary, can lead to unnecessary confusion and is asking for a piece of information that they may not necessarily have the right to know. This is a fairly extreme example, but let me use it anyway:

Alex Brown has moved to a new town, and wishes to get a library card. They are an FtM transsexual, but have not yet gone through the process to change their legal gender [as in, they have not applied for a new birth certificate yet]. On the form, it asks for his name, address, telephone number, email address etc., which he is happy to give. It also asks for his sex/gender via a title and by the ticking of 'M' or 'F'. He does not wish to supply this information.

Alex later goes to register with the nearby doctor's surgery. It asks for the usual information, and also asks for his sex/gender. He is happy to tick 'F', as they are asking purely for medical reasons. He also knows that the information about his transition will be supplied to his GP and they will treat him accordingly.

Do you see the difference?


You do not believe that everyone is of equal value as a human being?

I am not against anyone who wants to change gender because they feel more intouch with the opposite gender however Alex in this example is way too emotional compared to a normal human and therefore the example given is very unrealistic comparison to a normal (mentally stable) human.

[Muscovite]

(Original post by NB_ide)
Why do we refer to people as Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms? What's the point? So you want to know if Smith is a man or a woman, right? But why, are you going to treat them differently depending on whether they turn out to be a Mr or Ms?

Men and women are EQUAL. Not the same lol but EQUAL. They are the same. Our DNA only differs by % and it's ridiculous to have different titles for each gender. It's sad that in this day and age people still think some first names are for girls and some are for boys, but that's another topic I suppose.

Titles like Dr are better because they're genderless and give us some idea about the position of the person in their work, but why does it matter whether someone is a Mr or Mrs?

If I had my way I'd ban the use of those words like how it's illegal to mention someone's race unless it's strictly relevant (and it never is). Obviously men and women are physically different (but equal) so sometimes, such as in medical matters, it's appropriate to distinguish between them, but we don't need constant always-in-use titles like Mr and Mrs to do that.

Who's with me?

Get back in the Kitchen missus

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
If they have the same value to society then they fit the definition of being equal, despite the fact that they have differences. What part of this aren't you getting?

But that is the ONLY way they in which are equal. Surely you don't think Men and Women are exactly the same?

For example, Men are better at Sports. They are stronger and faster than Women.

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
But that is the ONLY way they in which are equal. Surely you don't think Men and Women are exactly the same?

For example, Men are better at Sports. They are stronger and faster than Women.

Where have I said that they are the same? I have specifically said that they are different. But these differences don't amount to one being better than another. As far as your examples, there are always exceptions, there are plenty of women who are stronger than men, there are also plenty of women who are better at sports than men. There are also plenty of men who have better fashion sense than women, and so on. You're stereotypes are ridiculous and stupid. For all intents and purposes to society men and women are equal despite having differences.

[sconter]

(Original post by Jordan_1)
But that is the ONLY way they in which are equal. Surely you don't think Men and Women are exactly the same?

For example, Men are better at Sports. They are stronger and faster than Women.

you are both wrong. noone has the same value to society.

men and women are the same in a human sense - we deserve the same treatment, same laws, same rights etc - but that is all.

that is the only equality that any human has, as we all have different attributes the make us more or less useful to society. for example a doctor is worth more to society than a meth addict to lives on the street. however, a doctor isnt worth any more as a human. the meth addict still gets the same say on matters, the same rights etc etc.

we are worth the same as humans.
but as people we are not equal.

[RandZul'Zorander]

(Original post by sconter)
you are both wrong. noone has the same value to society.

men and women are the same in a human sense - we deserve the same treatment, same laws, same rights etc - but that is all.

that is the only equality that any human has, as we all have different attributes the make us more or less useful to society. for example a doctor is worth more to society than a meth addict to lives on the street. however, a doctor isnt worth any more as a human. the meth addict still gets the same say on matters, the same rights etc etc.

we are worth the same as humans.
but as people we are not equal.

Men and women as whole concepts do have equal value to society. Individual men and women maybe not. But that doesn't make one less valuable due to your gender. Thereby the genders of men and women are still equal.

[najinaji]

(Original post by Bey Taco)
I am not against anyone who wants to change gender because they feel more intouch with the opposite gender however Alex in this example is way too emotional compared to a normal human and therefore the example given is very unrealistic comparison to a normal (mentally stable) human.

Emotions don't really come into this example. There are all manner of issues that could come from the example I provided.

If Alex ticked 'Mr' and 'M' on his library card form, if they needed to check his identity, they may come across his actual legal status as female and this may result in legal issues. Similarly, if he ticked 'Ms' and 'F' on the form, this could present two problems, being:
a) This may cause confusion to anyone who accesses this information, as it would contract his male appearance
b) When he does eventually change his legal gender, he would need to go back to the library and have his information changed, which could be a lengthy process.

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by RandZul'Zorander)
Where have I said that they are the same? I have specifically said that they are different. But these differences don't amount to one being better than another. As far as your examples, there are always exceptions, there are plenty of women who are stronger than men, there are also plenty of women who are better at sports than men. There are also plenty of men who have better fashion sense than women, and so on. You're stereotypes are ridiculous and stupid. For all intents and purposes to society men and women are equal despite having differences.

Those women who are better than men at sports are a very rare exception. If they were truly equal then you would see Females playing in all the top sports... but they don not.

The average man is better than some things than the average woman.

The average woman is better than some things than the average man.