[Origami Bullets]

Christ knows. One parent 'shares a staircase', one is a professional but long-term unemployed (the other in work but not hugely well paid), I'm a trade union member, we're not a family that goes in for conspicuous consumption (even in the good times), I'm studying for a degree, I went to a private school, had flying lessons, we're a family that especially likes dogs, I have a neutral (i.e. non-regional) accent . . . anyone like to hazard a guess?

I'm yet to work this out myself tbh, given that I can find aspects of myself / immediate family that fit into every social class going, as listed on wikipedia.

[zara55]

(Original post by CUFCDan)
If anyone says Sugar is WC deserves to be expelled from University. He's a multi-millionaire Lord who employs thousands of people and has his own TV show.

Just because he started off selling electronic parts at 15 or whatever doesn't mean he can stay one of the roughians forever.

Doesn't he claim he is working-class still? I remember reading that somewhere. Class can be about a lot more than just how much money you have or your job.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by CUFCDan)
Upper working class.

Single parent family, mum raising me on a mixture of minimum wage income and welfare support whilst my Dad works in a factory. It is almost cliche.

On the other hand, I personally save a lot (savings are almost a hall mark of MC), go to University and post on a forum called The Student Room.

I class myself as working class rather than MC however because: I have to work not for fun, but because I have to pay for the necessities of life (I earn about £400 p/m, £300 goes on bills); I own no assets like a car, property and so on; and I am restricted more than most in terms of financial capacity - I have to go to my local Uni because we can't afford to send me away.

Upper because I'm at Uni, doing a fairly MC discipline and I want to go into further education.

On reading that Wiki article, certainly by interests MC. I spend most of my income on books and stuff, highly politically engaged and so on. But on the other hand I feel I have this because I have worked myself for it, saved and been thrifty, managed my money well which, after a year of working and saving, has given me the ability to be a bit more superfluous.

There isn't an 'upper working class'.

You're either working class or lower middle.

[zara55]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
There isn't an 'upper working class'.

You're either working class or lower middle.

Says you. What about "respectable working class", "white collar working class", etc?

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by zara55)
Says you. What about "respectable working class", "white collar working class", etc?

Who exactly are they?

Arguably, they are within either the working class or the lower middle class.

I see no reason for another class inbetween the two.

[CUFCDan]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
There isn't an 'upper working class'.

You're either working class or lower middle.

Right so there's upper, lower and middle middle-class but evidently no differentiation between working class?

I live a different lifestyle to both those who are MC and of working class. I feel it is improper to give myself the same title as, say, a builder who scrapes by supporting a family, or as my Dad who has worked all his life for not very much; but as I am reliant on a wage-based income and state support in the form of student loan I don't consider myself MC.

I voted working class in the poll as there was no other option.

And if Sugar is working class, then great. I'm sure he thinks that when he retires to his mansion and silk duvet.

[Negaduck]

Middle- middle class.

[Aspiringlawstudent]

(Original post by CUFCDan)
Right so there's upper, lower and middle middle-class but evidently no differentiation between working class?

I live a different lifestyle to both those who are MC and of working class. I feel it is improper to give myself the same title as, say, a builder who scrapes by supporting a family, or as my Dad who has worked all his life for not very much; but as I am reliant on a wage-based income and state support in the form of student loan I don't consider myself MC.

I voted working class in the poll as there was no other option.

And if Sugar is working class, then great. I'm sure he thinks that when he retires to his mansion and silk duvet.

The middle class is huge. There need to be distinctions because it is simply not possible to say that someone that is a top lawyer or banker is in the same social class as someone that is a primary school teacher.

The working class, however, are fairly similar. There is no real chasm between their values and levels of education as their is with the middle class.

Also, I think you place too much weight on income - it is, of course, an important factor when determining class, but to my mind it is not the main factor.

Think of it this way; Katie Price is apparently worth £30,000,000. She is clearly working class, however. Listen to her voice. Observe her behaviour. You'd be mad to call her middle class or upper class.

Alan Sugar is just a richer version that keeps his clothes on.

[daisydaffodil]

(Original post by zara55)
Says you. What about "respectable working class", "white collar working class", etc?

That actually sounds familiar from sociology. I'm sure some people divide working class into blue and white - blue meaning manual labour, white meaning office jobs! Not sure if one is better than the other though! Wiki makes reference to pink as well - meaning a service job..

[py0alb]

(Original post by zara55)
Says you. What about "respectable working class", "white collar working class", etc?

The working class are by definition respectable by dint of having jobs.

You can see the various differences as being:

underclass:
permanent dole seekers/homeless

working class:
respectable blue collar manual workers, possibly council housing, no university education

lower middle class:
state school to university - possibly first in family, decent white collar job

upper middle class:
family wealth, private school, few generations of university, good white collar job

upper class:
serious family wealth, "top" private school, too rich to really bother working. job is seen more as a hobby.


Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and the lines are very blurred, but this is as reasonably accurate a set of general guidelines as you will find.

[zara55]

I wonder if everyone who makes it to a top university, regardless of their origins, has become middle-class? This seems to be particularly true of Oxford and Cambridge, maybe UCL, LSE, etc - maybe everyone who is now or has been a student at one of the elite universities is by definition automatically upper-middle class?

[CUFCDan]

(Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
The middle class is huge. There need to be distinctions because it is simply not possible to say that someone that is a top lawyer or banker is in the same social class as someone that is a primary school teacher.

The working class, however, are fairly similar. There is no real chasm between their values and levels of education as their is with the middle class.

Also, I think you place too much weight on income - it is, of course, an important factor when determining class, but to my mind it is not the main factor.

Think of it this way; Katie Price is apparently worth £30,000,000. She is clearly working class, however. Listen to her voice. Observe her behaviour. You'd be mad to call her middle class or upper class.

Alan Sugar is just a richer version that keeps his clothes on.

I'm astounded you think the MC is 'huge' whilst the WC isn't. You're right that you can't have a millionaire banker and a teacher in the same 'class', but neither can you have a part-time supermarket worker renting a flat in the same class as a contracted builder renting a house with a family, even though to me they hold the same social relations.

I base class on your relations with the social order. The reason I put income at a high level is because this affects your relationship with a social structure built on money. Money gives you freedom.

She of course is a bit of an anomaly. I would suggest her income is middle-class because - not of the size - but through how she got it: usually, modelling, selling books and advertising. They're all fairly middle-class occupations. Just because she is a bit moralless, doesn't make her not of a class.

[CUFCDan]

(Original post by zara55)
I wonder if everyone who makes it to a top university, regardless of their origins, has become middle-class? This seems to be particularly true of Oxford and Cambridge, maybe UCL, LSE, etc - maybe everyone who is now or has been a student at one of the elite universities is by definition automatically upper-middle class?

What about those who could, but didn't, go to them?

I could have got into almost any Uni, though Oxbridge would have been tough. Couldn't afford to go away to them, so I stayed at my local Uni.

[Soilwork]

I would probably say middle middle class.

[Annie72]

I hate the class system myself!

Saying that if I had to say which class I thought I belonged in it would be skilled working class.My Dad was a lorry driver and my mum was a nurse.My husband is also a lorry driver, albeit he gets paid a good whack due to the dangerous chemicals and industrial gases he carries.

Many Great Grandparents ago my Nans family were landowners which would have made them upper class.

[vandub]

Would've said my family was working class, but going on that Wiki article I guess they're lower middle. My mum's in a slightly cushy government admin job and my dad's kind of self-employed in electronics for the moment. Still, all of us kids went to the nearest state school, we're not in a particularly affluent area, my parents are divorced (still a sign of working class-ness?), their houses are kinda bog standard, and I'm one of the first to go to uni in my family, second only to my brother. Plus I get the full maintenance grant from SFE.

I think classifying yourself whilst at university is slightly weird though, as it's the point where you move away from your previous life (literally and figuratively) so there's less and less to judge you on. Unless you're covered in Jack Wills and a tan from your skiing holiday, that is.

[zara55]

(Original post by CUFCDan)
What about those who could, but didn't, go to them?

I could have got into almost any Uni, though Oxbridge would have been tough. Couldn't afford to go away to them, so I stayed at my local Uni.

I don't know. I am speculating that there's something about the culture of being at top universities that somehow "makes" people middle-class, so that you move up in class if you arrive at them from the working-class or they re-confirm your class if you arrive from the MC.

[plimsolls]

Working class family, uni graduate, currently unemployed, culturally i feel i'm approaching middle class (middle class friends, interests (art, culture, science)), although i sympathise with working class values and sometimes identify with them. I've no idea what that makes me. I don't feel I fit anywhere tbh.

[Some random guy]

Crazy Brits, obsessed with creating class boundaries.

[Cumquat]

I would like to say i am royalty but my nan Elizabeth hides me from the media as i am an "embarrassment to the family". My dad Phillip is a nice guy but goes down on my nan a bit too much. Me and my brothers Will and Harry get up to mischief in the garden and play pranks on nan. Once Harry moonied the butler. it was soooo funny.