Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

'Total war' against Muslims

Announcements Posted on
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Americans are just simply lost
    they are run by organisations that simply want world dominance, they strive for power and want to eliminate all 3rd world groups. You want proof?
    They go to iran, afghanistan, pakistan, somalia, other african countrys, iraq...they are parasites.
    They claim they go for good reasons when they want oil.

    Other than that, islam is and will be the strongest growing religeon in the world.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Dear CUFCDan, how are you?

    I challenge you to find one verse that is disturbing


    (Original post by CUFCDan)
    I just laughed. So hard.

    There are certain parts of the Quran that are deeply disturbing, some that are very nice. Just like every religion or political creed.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Yusif)
    Other than that, islam is and will be the strongest growing religeon in the world.
    Unfortunately, I feel this will be down more to incessant birth rates in places like the Middle East rather than the actual substance of the religion. It isn't unique to Islam (as it probably applies to all religions), but it's hardly something to be proud about.
    • 13 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    1. Islam doesn't have to claim you can live solely off of Quaranic knowledge, but in my eyes that is what is necessary to be able to claim that the Quaran is a miracle which shows Mohammed is a true prophet. Otherwise the book is totally unfit for purpose, which makes it not a mircale, and Mohammed a fraud. Christians have about the same consensus as Muslims, they just choose to worship seperately over rather small and trivial issues. There is very little consensus on quite a few issues in Islam, as any thread on Islamic issues on TSR will show you - I mean you can't even agree among yourselves whether apostates should be put to death still. Christians do not point to their bible as any sort of proof that Jesus was a prophet either, and they also don't claim that the bible is absolutely perfect, just that it gets the appropriate messages and the way to live across without referring to another book. Jesus had the lineage, and performed true miracles, whereas Mohammed performed no miracles and was not even prophesised to come.

    2. I had a feeling you might take the route of "their violence is justified" line. There are millions of Christians being persecuted right now by Muslims (South Sudan springs to mind), why aren't they strapping on vests and walking into crowded markets filled with their own people? The fact is that in every single country that has a percentage of Muslims about 5% there have been suicide attacks. I don't see the justification for the UK having it's own suicide attacks, and there have been many attempts both successful and not considering the amount of Muslims here.

    I really love that you've dragged up that report because it shows just how ridiculously biased you are - and that you don't come to this with an open and academic mind seeking truth. That report conviniently doesn't look into the amount of casualties, does it? If it did it would see that Islam has killed thousands more people than any other terrorist operation in the US. The report also includes environmental activists who burned down empty buildings as terrorists. In any case, America is only about 2% Muslim. When the UK was 2% Muslim, they were still pretending the religion was peaceful. Wait until their numbers increase by a few more percent and we'll see some more bombing. I notice none of these reports bother to look at the wider world or Muslim countries, because if they did they would see that over 20,000 terrorist attacks have been carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam since 2001.

    3. I don't really care if you bring the Catholic church into this, because i'm not a Catholic and I will happily say that Catholocisim drew an awful lot of Christians down the wrong path (like Mohammed) for their own personal power. Jesus was the final prophet until the end of times, and his is the only teaching Christians should unquestioningly follow. I believe that in Islam you are bound to have to follow some scholars no matter what, because it is written within their holy books that Islam and the state must be fused. This means that if a scholar says you should be executed for homosexuality like in Saudi Arabia, then you will be executed. You can disagree with the ruling all you like, but you won't win. Your life is governed by Islam and scholars.

    4. You know what I was getting at with the Afghan mountains comment :rolleyes:

    Once again you are fully illustrating my point that you are totally biased and not coming at this from an academically rigorous angle. Mohammed went to all the effort of categorically getting every single war he waged written down for you to read. You've seen the graph further up, he tried peace, then he switched to Jihad and hey presto Islam boomed and spread. Let me guess what you're going to say next: "He never waged an offensive war, they all attacked him and deserved what they had coming to them". Well if you only go to one source for your history you might beleive that. But it is well worth looking at some other non-Islamic historical sources, which will show you that Mohammed waged war across Arabia relentlessly, and it was not simply his word that convinced people to hand everything over to him.

    You can bring the crusades into this all you like, because I know Jesus wouldn't have stood at the head of the crusades. And what always puzzles me about people bringing up the crusades to criticise Christians, is that they were carried out to push back an Islamic empire that was steadily waging war and using violence to expand into Europe.

    All this crap about conversion is laughable, because the playing field is in no way equal. In many Islamic countries (almost all in fact) trying to convert a Muslim will get you killed pretty quickly. In some the bible is even banned and Christians aren't permitted to meet. Furthermore Islam pretty much states that people who convert away from Islam should be killed - although Muslims generally settle for outcasting that person and never speaking to them again. Furthermore Islam stipulates that if you want to marry a Muslim you must pretty much convert, so there are an awful lot of pretenders for love out there too. You will see in places where people have the freedom to choose their religion Christianity and atheism are winning time and again. The final icing on the cake of your conversion argument is that many Christians convert to Islam to avoid paying a higher rate of tax LOL.

    Even then I still doubt that Islam is gaining converts quicker than Christianity. I think you are basing this argument largely on third world births, and the general Muslim aversion to birth control world wide. If you actually ignore birth rates I believe the statistics show that Christianity is gaining more converts, despite the fact that the 'competition' isn't anywhere near free and fair.

    Yes, Islam does state if somebody was at first a muslim and then converted into another religion should be killed. And what is wrong in this?
    Tell me one thing, what is the punishment for treason in the UK?
    It might be slightly lenient now but in the past, committing treason was probably one of the worst acts of crime a person could do and the punishment for this was brutal.
    Treason right now is also taken strictly. For somebody to live in a country and then to plot against the queen or king.
    So you tell me, if Allah has stated that "I have created mankind and jinn to worship me" (you may not believe in Islam or a God) so if a person worships Allah at first who is GOD higher than any queen or king and then goes against this same God and stops His worship, this punishment is appropriate.
    If a person can be killed for going against their king or queen, why shouldnt a person be killed for going against ALLAH whom he called his God and worshipped.

    By far, this form of treason is the worst of all and is worse than any other form of treason.
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosi M)
    Yes, Islam does state if somebody was at first a muslim and then converted into another religion should be killed. And what is wrong in this?Tell me one thing, what is the punishment for treason in the UK?It might be slightly lenient now but in the past, committing treason was probably one of the worst acts of crime a person could do and the punishment for this was brutal.Treason right now is also taken strictly. For somebody to live in a country and then to plot against the queen or king.So you tell me, if Allah has stated that "I have created mankind and jinn to worship me" (you may not believe in Islam or a God) so if a person worships Allah at first who is GOD higher than any queen or king and then goes against this same God and stops His worship, this punishment is appropriate.If a person can be killed for going against their king or queen, why shouldnt a person be killed for going against ALLAH whom he called his God and worshipped.By far, this form of treason is the worst of all and is worse than any other form of treason.
    What's wrong with this? Well... you could be wrong, and prohibiting people from following the true religion? It's not up to you to kill someone because a book that is as good as toilet paper to the majority of the world tells you to. Treason carried the death penalty because it could place the lives of thousands if not millions of people at risk. There is no reason to inflict this punishment on people who have harmed no other people through their actions. The only reason for it is so that Mohammed could keep his empire together (much like the entire religion tbh).
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I'm drunk)
    LOL. Don't throw bricks in glass houses.

    1. Islams beleive God lives in the moon- its true check it out.

    2. Islams believe you cannot touch the face of God.

    3. Islmas had a crisis whyen the moon landings took place. Am I right?
    Hahaha, if nothing else, this post has provided me with laughter.

    You're not just drunk, you're intoxicated to the point where you're off your face spouting any proverbial nonsense that makes its way into the toilet that you call a brain!

    More!
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    What's wrong with this? Well... you could be wrong, and prohibiting people from following the true eligion? It's not up to you to kill someone because a book that is as good as toilet paper to the majority of the world tells you to. Treason carried the death penalty because it could place the lives of thousands if not millions of people at risk. There is no reason to inflict this punishment on people who have harmed no other people through their actions. The only reason for it is so that Mohammed could keep his empire together (much like the entire religion tbh).
    Wow...
    I didn't think you'd stoop so low

    Pathetic.
    • 10 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    Wow...
    I didn't think you'd stoop so low

    Pathetic.
    Lol be quiet. Youre the one advocating for killing people. Cant go much lower than that, foolish hypocrite.


    Posted via TSR iPhone App
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .eXe)
    Lol be quiet. Youre the one advocating for killing people. Cant go much lower than that, foolish hypocrite.


    Posted via TSR iPhone App
    No. I may have problems with the religion you follow but I would never justify equating your bible like ellipses has.

    Any justification for doing so is wrong.
    The fact of the matter is, it was a pathetic statement.

    You still haven't refuted my proof that apostates shouldn't be killed.
    • 10 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    No. I may have problems with the religion you follow but I would never justify equating your bible like ellipses has.

    Any justification for doing so is wrong.
    The fact of the matter is, it was a pathetic statement.

    You still haven't refuted my proof that apostates shouldn't be killed.
    I have to refute nothing bud. Scroll up and read the post by Rosi M who confirms that apostates should be killed. You muslims cant even agree, why are you asking me to refute your gibberish? Go ask your fellow muslim because you are both contradicting each other pretty badly.


    Posted via TSR iPhone App
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlHaq)
    Dear CUFCDan, how are you?

    I challenge you to find one verse that is disturbing

    Of course it is entirely subjective. But the Quran is littered with things that I, personally, am uncomfortable with. But that's the nature of religion.

    Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.
    Or Hadiths:

    Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".
    • 35 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rosi M)
    Yes, Islam does state if somebody was at first a muslim and then converted into another religion should be killed. And what is wrong in this?
    Tell me one thing, what is the punishment for treason in the UK?
    It might be slightly lenient now but in the past, committing treason was probably one of the worst acts of crime a person could do and the punishment for this was brutal.
    Treason right now is also taken strictly. For somebody to live in a country and then to plot against the queen or king.
    So you tell me, if Allah has stated that "I have created mankind and jinn to worship me" (you may not believe in Islam or a God) so if a person worships Allah at first who is GOD higher than any queen or king and then goes against this same God and stops His worship, this punishment is appropriate.
    If a person can be killed for going against their king or queen, why shouldnt a person be killed for going against ALLAH whom he called his God and worshipped.

    By far, this form of treason is the worst of all and is worse than any other form of treason.
    That's quite an ostentatious and dangerous course of action. What say then, when any other group believes they are in the right and starts killing people because of their likeminded beliefs? Are you saying that is okay? Are you saying that if a religion, other than Islam, prudently punished believers for breaking rules by death, that its okay, given that it is a divine command? That's a pretty cold morality and a candid example of the slippery slope that many countries throughout history have gone down. If its not okay for others in modern day to kill others, why is it okay for Islam to do so? I know you believe it is right, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is so. Given the even slight chance that Islam may not be right, surely this is a something we should handle in a less crude way than societal stoning?

    This whole business of Apostasy has always confused me, given that you kill someone when they leave Islam, surely you give them no chance to see the "error" of their ways, repent and come back to the faith? Isn't everyone called to come to Islam, and welcomed whether old or new? Surely by your logic, then you should be sparing people? How does killing someone help? Doesn't Allah or Islam want them to redeem themselves? Aren't you essentially stamping their entry stamp to hell by killing them upon apostasy?
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    Wow...
    I didn't think you'd stoop so low

    Pathetic.
    I am illustrating that the so-called holy koran is worthless to the majority of the world, so using it as any kind of proof that anyone should be killed for a victimless crime is an absolute joke. I personally care more about the LOTR trilogy. At least that doesn't ask people to kill other innocent people every other page.
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .eXe)
    I have to refute nothing bud. Scroll up and read the post by Rosi M who confirms that apostates should be killed. You muslims cant even agree,why are you asking me to refute your gibberish? Go ask your fellow muslim because you are both contradicting each other pretty badly.


    Posted via TSR iPhone App
    so basically, you know nothing.

    Can't refute my point

    Safe!
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I am illustrating that the so-called holy koran is worthless to the majority of the world, so using it as any kind of proof that anyone should be killed for a victimless crime is an absolute joke. I personally care more about the LOTR trilogy. At least that doesn't ask people to kill other innocent people every other page.
    Yeah. But to say its the equivalent of toilet paper!?
    If I said that about the bible how would you feel?
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Bring it
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    Yeah. But to say its the equivalent of toilet paper!?
    If I said that about the bible how would you feel?
    You can say what you like, I don't care what you think. My religion is secure enough in itself that it doesn't need to run around killing apostates and non believers. Without the threat of death hanging over the heads of Muslims it would have died out a long time ago.
    • 20 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You can say what you like, I don't care what you think. My religion is secure enough in itself that it doesn't need to run around killing apostates and non believers. Without the threat of death hanging over the heads of Muslims it would have died out a long time ago.
    Enlighten me on the trinity that makes god die cus he's human and then adding in a holy spirit so you can make a cool triangle?
    :lol:

    What about the fact that while Jesus was alive he prayed?
    Who'd he pray to?
    himself? LOL

    Common sense says your beliefs aren't secure
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    Enlighten me on the trinity that makes god die cus he's human and then adding in a holy spirit so you can make a cool triangle?
    :lol:

    What about the fact that while Jesus was alive he prayed?
    Who'd he pray to?
    himself? LOL

    Common sense says your beliefs aren't secure
    You probably don't understand most of Einsteins theories, that doesn't mean they aren't right. It really isn't my fault it has to be ridiculously simple for you and your fellow Muslims to get your head around.

    Where does sperm come from? What do mountains do? Where does the sun set? How did the world begin?
    • 35 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by killa78)
    Enlighten me on the trinity that makes god die cus he's human and then adding in a holy spirit so you can make a cool triangle?
    :lol:

    What about the fact that while Jesus was alive he prayed?
    Who'd he pray to?
    himself? LOL

    Common sense says your beliefs aren't secure
    Common sense would also indicate you don't have a terribly good understanding of basic Christianity. Its fine to debate with people, but you're now doing the same thing you criticized Elipsis for doing. Irony is a funny thing.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?

    this is what you'll be called on TSR

  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?

    never shared and never spammed

  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide the button to the right to create your account

    Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: May 18, 2012
New on TSR

Get ready for SQA results day

Share your grade expectations for Tuesday 5 August

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.