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'Total war' against Muslims

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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    I don't think he is clueless. Muhammed picked up the pen and paper to write it. So it follows Muhammed Physically Wrote the Qu'ran. And then also wrote hadiths. Whether he was being dictated it by a "God" nobody can ever actually be certain of. All people can do is believe that was the case or not believe it.
    muhammed was illiterate and so where pretty much all the arabs at that time. they enjoyed being ignorant and so never learnt to read or write. go check for yourself!
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    I don't think he is clueless. Muhammed picked up the pen and paper to write it. So it follows Muhammed Physically Wrote the Qu'ran. And then also wrote hadiths. Whether he was being dictated it by a "God" nobody can ever actually be certain of. All people can do is believe that was the case or not believe it.
    No he didn't. The guy was illiterate. The Quran was recited and memorised, not written. Do you know what a Hadith is? Where do you get this crap?
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    (Original post by .eXe)
    Oh I am certain of that as well. At no point have I suggested that "all" muslims want to kill infidels. In fact I'll even say that the majority do not want that at all. That's all well and good.

    And lol, no I haven't at all suggested I don't want to travel. That was probably just a facetious comment. I have traveled quite extensively for work purposes and have lived in many different countries (Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Bahrain, Kuwait and currently Canada). I have no aversions to traveling and if I conveyed that at all, I apologize

    Perhaps you might be surprised to know a few things about me: vast majority of my friends are muslim, most of my close friends who are muslim are well aware of my opinions, most (if not all actually) agree with them. The reason for the latter being, they do not see me as having an issue with muslims, but rather with Islam. Additionally, having lived in Islamic countries I am well versed in their customs, language and lifestyle. This is probably why I have lots of muslim friends to begin with.

    Now as to your last point...how exactly do I go about doing that? It's not like hateful muslims have a sign on their forehead which identifies them? Additionally, if I were to visit a madrassa or some place which harbours radical muslims, what exactly would convince them to invite me in and have a chat with me? Remember...I am a Christian...the very person those radicals are trying to kill.

    It seems your suggestion to me is...go talk to the radicals to learn about them. I ask you...how? They are called radicals for a reason sir.
    They aren't trying to kill a certain religion or creed they'll kill anyone affiliated with the people they're angry with. To put it simply they are our skinheads/ The difference is people seem portray we are like them while the reverse is generally not true. Please do not affiliate them with my parents (as i have put in a previous quote i am no longer a Muslim) as they do not follow a law. Anyone willing to maim civilians can not say they are acting on a "holy" campaign as there are rules of war and only attacking soldier and those in power are one of them. If they honestly were fighting a "holy" war they would have commissioned a plane and flown it into a white house. They had no regard for innocent people and so broke a law dictating what it was. They were not a "holy" war merely on a campaign to make a statement. I'm pretty sure there are other rules on initiating a war which they broke as well.
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    (Original post by AmiraSerafina)
    The Quran is not supposed to be followed to the letter. Amongst other things, it consists of stories about the past prophets, past nations etc, which is where people get mixed up, as they think they're supposed to follow those stories. My point here is, the verse that talks about killing in the name of God, is not actually a command from God to us Muslims today.. It was just an account of what previous nations did. Fools today don't even understand the Quran, and so decide to go kill kill kill...
    Muhammad's role as a prophet was to explain the words of God, so that people could live a peaceful and righteous life and not get the wrong idea from anything ambigious in the Quran.
    The Quran wasn't "written down" until after the Prophet's death; everyone used to memorise it, based on revelations that the Prophet Muhammad received from God.
    Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace, those nutters that go around slaughtering others are not Muslims in the eyes of God, the Prophet, and us normal Muslims who worship God in gratitude and love, whilst also shopping at Asda and studying our A Levels. >.<
    Morrisons for some of us!
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    (Original post by notnerdylikeyou)
    muhammed was illiterate and so where pretty much all the arabs at that time. they enjoyed being ignorant and so never learnt to read or write. go check for yourself!
    They weren't being ignorant only the rich and wealthy learnt to read and write, that was the case in Europe until the late 1800s also.
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    I'm not going to say islam is a perfect religion (it's not), but this is way too far to deal with the problem of terrorism. Sure, most western-hating terrorists are Muslim, but I doubt they even constitute 5% of Muslims in general. Whoever is behind the idea of nuclear attacks should be "dealt with" for both encouraging the murder of innocent people and the enviroment.
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    (Original post by Rainingshame)
    Morrisons for some of us!
    Yeah. Morrisions too. B)

    (Asda is still cheaper. :P )
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    I don't think he is clueless. Muhammed picked up the pen and paper to write it. So it follows Muhammed Physically Wrote the Qu'ran. And then also wrote hadiths. Whether he was being dictated it by a "God" nobody can ever actually be certain of. All people can do is believe that was the case or not believe it.
    Hmm actually he had scribes that wrote bits of it down, I don't think he wrote anything. And most of the Hadiths were written waaaaay after he died.
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    This is a thread about playing Medieval 2: Total War as one of the Western Christian nations and taking part in a crusade, right?
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    apparently 1000s of muslims could be unknowingly consuming pork:

    Trading standards officers test lamb kebabs in 20 restaurants... and found that NONE contained just lamb
    All kebabs contained a mixture of pork, beef or poultry
    Only three lamb curries tested had just lamb
    Four curries contained none at all
    Muslims may be unwittingly eating pork
    One kebab contained almost 20 times the safe levels of food colouring


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...just-lamb.html

    'Beware the next time you order a lamb kebab - as consumer watchdogs have discovered that every one they tested contained a concoction of other meats.
    An investigation by trading standards officers has revealed that none of 20 lamb kebabs tested contained just lamb - while four lamb curries out of 19 did not contain any lamb at all.
    Lamb is the most expensive meat consumers regularly buy, followed by beef and pork, with chicken being the cheapest.'
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    (Original post by Aspiringlawstudent)
    I'm ok with this
    Your telling me you are ok with the attack of hugely populated cities that could potentially kill millions? you approve this? You are either American or stupid
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    ''It advocated "total war" against all the world's Muslims, including possible nuclear attacks on the holy cities of Mecca and Medina and the wiping out civilian populations.''

    So you, a devout Christian, see nothing wrong with massacring entire civilian populations. Where is the so-called love Jesus taught?
    No it didnt, US government is not the west. You know, like Al Queda arn't muslims? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    What proof do you have that he couldn't write a word? he could have learnt. You simply have no proof that he was iliterate apart from the fact he did not get any tuition.
    Leave alone him being illiterate or not. There's a lot of proof to show that he didn't or couldn't write the quran - nor could a thousand arabs in his time do it... You think he came out of the blues with the quran- physical with pages and pages of handwritten words? During his time Quran didnt exist as a book. No one could have wriiten it when he was alive. The Quran only existed in peoples' mind at those times and was to put to paper later.

    But there's a lot of proof that the quran was not altered...that is numerical proofs about how many times a word is repeated....ratios between the numbers etc...if you want to know quote and ask..

    The Quran came from Muhammed and all arabs of his time knew that. Some said that he was mad, which no modern man will agree after reading the scientific stuff in the Quran, but some accused it of coming from the devil which again cannot be possible because the Quran lines itself with the older scriptures in many stuff and clearly points out that the devil is man's open foe.
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    (Original post by izzaha)
    Your telling me you are ok with the attack of hugely populated cities that could potentially kill millions? you approve this? You are either American or stupid (wait thats the same thing)
    Haha what a hypocrite.

    Generalizing are we? Why if americans are stupid does it have the best universities in the world and is one of if not the most developed countries?
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    “…We may feel certain that if Western Christians, instead of the Saracens and the Turks, had won the dominion over Asia, there would be today not a trace left of the Greek Church, and that they would never have tolerated Muhammadanism as the 'infidels' have tolerated Christianity there. We (Christians) enjoy the fine advantage of being far better versed than others in the art of killing, bombarding and exterminating the Human Race." (Bayle P., Dictionary, 'the article Mahomed', 1850)

    Only a Non-Muslim of a high authority in a western civilized state could condone the mass killing of innocents.

    Here's some 7th century "fundementalists" who hold the most authorative narrations on the rules of warfare that Muslims have adopted throughout the centuries.

    One of the greatest Muslim "fundamentalists", Abu Bakr(ra), closest friend of the Prophet(pbuh) -


    Abu Bakr advised Yazid: “I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camel except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly. - Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 010.

    Here's another "fundementalist", he might aswell be like this USA military savage if he wasn't a Muslim -


    Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that a son of Kab ibn Malik (Malik believed that ibn Shihab said it was Abd ar-Rahman ibn Kab) said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade those who fought ibn Abi Huqayq (a treacherous jew from Madina) to kill women and children. He said that one of the men fighting had said, 'The wife of ibn Abi Huqayq began screaming and I repeatedly raised my sword against her. Then I would remember the prohibition of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, so I would stop. Had it not been for that, we would have been rid of her.'" - Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 008.


    And what about this fundamentalist? It seems even Non-Muslim Academia accept the man set the standards (even today) of warfare (based on the injunctions of the Prophet(pbuh)) -


    "Sven Lindqvist points out that the earliest humane rules related to warfare are to be found in Abu Hanifa’s formulations in the 7th century. Lindqvist writes:

    "It was Abu Hanifa, a leading legal expert of Persian origin, the founder of a school of law in Baghdad, who first forbade the killing of women, children, the elderly, the sick, monks and other non-combatants. He also condemned rape and the killing of captives.… A legal expert in Baghdad, [he] attempted to make war more humane by setting forth rules that were not accepted in Europe until several centuries later—rules that were still not accepted, in any case not practiced, when colored people were involved.
    [Sven Lindqvist, A History of Bombing (New York: The New Press, 2000), 9.]"

    In fact, it was Abu Hanifa who first codified these rules in a legal system, but all of the rules were taken from injunctions given by the Prophet Muhammad himself."


    What about the "fundamentalist" Ibn Kathir(ra), who's tafsir on the verses of the Qur'an are considered amongst the most authoritive?


    Allah said:

    ﴿وَلاَ تَعْتَدُواْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ﴾

    (but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.)

    This Ayah means, `Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,' such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit.'' This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said:


    «اغْزُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللهِ، قَاتِلُوا مَنْ كَفَرَ بِاللهِ، اغْزُوا وَلَا تَغُلُّوا وَلَا تَغْدِرُوا وَلَا تَمْثُلُوا وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا وَلِيدًا وَلَا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِع»


    (Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal (from the captured goods), commit treachery, mutilate (the dead), or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship.)


    It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "A woman was found dead during one of the Prophet's battles and the Prophet then forbade killing women and children. '' There are many other Hadiths on this subject.

    Atheists have no set standards, and Jews/Christians will always have this to go by;



    Numbers 31:17,18

    17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    1 Samuel 15:2,3

    2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "


    I'm almost glad that it's not Jews or Hindu's or anyone else who's oppressed and hated and fought against, because if it was them, they'd have been wiped out completely (Jews almost were). Instead it's Muslims, who would never bow, simply because we have a concept called "Jihad", which invokes fighting against oppression, no matter who's doing it.

    Praise be to Allah for making me a Muslim.




    Gladstone held the 'Quran in one hand and said: "So long as this 'Quran is in the hands of Muslims, Europe shall not be able to control the East." British prime minister, said in the House of Commons in 1882.


    Atleast when we come after America, we won't go civilian killing. Only crush the government and the military for the years of tyranny. That's all
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    What proof do you have that he couldn't write a word? he could have learnt. You simply have no proof that he was iliterate apart from the fact he did not get any tuition.
    No academic or anyone for that matters makes such a anti-proof claim. I'm assuming you're new to the circle of studies.

    The problem with your premesis is within the Qur'an. It says;


    Quran, 29: 48 And you was not (able) to recite a Book before this, nor are you (able) to write it with your right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.

    7: 157 Those who follow the messenger; the unlettered (Ummi) Prophet whom they find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them what is just and forbids them what is evil. He will make lawful for them what is good (and pure) and prohibit them from what is bad (and impure)…

    7: 158 Say (O Muhammad): “O mankind! Lo! I am sent unto you all as the messenger of Allah to Whom belongeth the Sovereignity of the heavens and the earth: There is no god but He: it is He that giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the unlettered (Ummi), who believed in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided.”
    When these revelations came down, not only those who followed Muhammad(pbuh) but even his enemies, who knew him before he was a Prophet(pbuh) would immediately known whether he was real or fake.

    They would've exposed him if the statement of being illiterate was false. However, it was true, and that's why they resorted to calling him a "sorcerer, magician, soothsayer, devil" and other super naturalistic terms.
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    What proof do you have that he couldn't write a word? he could have learnt. You simply have no proof that he was iliterate apart from the fact he did not get any tuition.
    He was born broke and he died broke. He had no money to learn.
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    (Original post by Rainingshame)
    He was born broke and he died broke. He had no money to learn.
    So he stayed with a baby brain his whole life? i dont think so.
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    (Original post by enigma1122)
    So he stayed with a baby brain his whole life? i dont think so.
    He lived at a time where only the rich could learn to read. You still get illiterate people today and that's at a time where there are words everywhere. Really had you not had someone teach you at some stage how to read i doubt you would have learn. That being said you could have been an exceptional case but it's more than likely that you wouldn't have to.
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    Hey, its clear now that America has opened so many doors that it can't close! And definately MUSLIMS will win and America and their companions will be defeated, inshaAllah

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