[Miracle Day]

Just a fun hypothetical situation. Following Fashoda etc, France and the UK's relationships strengthened and they put all the colonial arguments behind them agreeing that France had Egypt, and Britain had Morocco.

The UK made an agreement with Japan, so if Japan was in a war with 2 or more powers the UK would help. in the Russo-Japanese war France was Russia's ally, so if Russia had dragged France into the war the UK, according to the terms of Japan and the UK's agreement the UK would have to help Japan.

So UK + Japan vs Russia + France.



With hindsight to all the following events, what would have happened to Europe?

[Super Cicero]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Just a fun hypothetical situation. Following Fashoda etc, France and the UK's relationships strengthened and they put all the colonial arguments behind them agreeing that France had Egypt, and Britain had Morocco.?

I presume you meant that other way round - France had Morocco, and Britain had Egypt?

(Original post by Miracle Day)
The UK made an agreement with Japan, so if Japan was in a war with 2 or more powers the UK would help. in the Russo-Japanese war France was Russia's ally, so if Russia had dragged France into the war the UK, according to the terms of Japan and the UK's agreement the UK would have to help Japan.

So UK + Japan vs Russia + France.

With hindsight to all the following events, what would have happened to Europe?

Very interesting question.

The UK itself would be safe from French attack due to the overwhelming superiority at sea of the Royal Navy. However, the British Empire had two main areas where its interests clashed with France and Russia - Africa and Central Asia. Britain would likely try to seize control of many French colonies in Africa, while sending troops to Afghanistan to prevent a Russian invasion of India.

Meanwhile, in Europe, an Anglo-German alliance would be formed, since Germany's main enemies were France and Russia, and now would be the perfect time to launch a pre-emptive attack. Based on the same thinking that in reality led to the formation of the Schleiffen Plan, the Germans would likely launch an attack on France. Under British pressure, Belgium would agree to give passage to German troops in exchange for guarantees that it would not lose territory to Germany at the end of the war. Germany would seek to defeat France quickly before Russia had time to bring its troops westwards from Far-East Siberia back to European Russia.

In reality, Russia sent its Baltic Fleet around the world to fight the Japanese, but if they tried to do this in our scenario (unlikely due to German threat), then it would be decimated by the Royal Navy along the way.

Austria-Hungary would likely ally with Germany and Britain, and the Ottoman Empire would too (due to historical hatred between Turkey and Russia). With German troops advancing into France, Paris would likely fall, because there would be no British troops helping the French as there were in real life's WW1. The Germans (with help from Austrians), then move most of their troops eastwards to fight Russia. Russia will basically then be ****ed, because it will have the British advancing into Central Asia, the Japanese fighting it in the Far East, the Germans and Austrians advancing into the western parts of European Russian Empire (i.e. Poland, Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus), and the Ottomans cutting off supplies getting in through the Black Sea - and likely attacking Russia through the Caucasus.

The 1905 revolution that happened in reality would succeed, and either the Bolsheviks or Mensheviks would attempt to seize power, but if they succeeded then the Imperialist forces of UK/Japan/Germany/Austria would probably help White forces crush the Reds, and a puppet Russian rump state which loses most of Eastern Europe to Germany, most of Central Asia to Britain and parts of the Far East to Japan, would be set up. In mainland Europe, there is German hegonomy, while Britain gains all of France's colonies and remains the dominant world naval power.

[Super Cicero]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
With hindsight to all the following events, what would have happened to Europe?

Any thoughts on my scenario?

[rugbyladosc]

Well Japanese forces where far superior to Russia and France. Winning a war like that relies almost entirely on logistics and fleet. The British fleet were superior to Russia & France so I reckon Japan could have flushed them out quicker with the help of Britain

Furthermore the Trans-Siberian railway was abysmal so the entry of France would have been a matter-of-indifference, as extra troops would not have affected the logistics of battle.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by rugbyladosc)
Well Japanese forces where far superior to Russia and France. Winning a war like that relies almost entirely on logistics and fleet. The British fleet were superior to Russia & France so I reckon Japan could have flushed them out quicker with the help of Britain

Furthermore the Trans-Siberian railway was abysmal so the entry of France would have been a matter-of-indifference, as extra troops would not have affected the logistics of battle.

So what would have happened with Germany? They still wanted to expand their empire.

(Original post by Super Cicero)
I presume you meant that other way round - France had Morocco, and Britain had Egypt?



Very interesting question.

The UK itself would be safe from French attack due to the overwhelming superiority at sea of the Royal Navy. However, the British Empire had two main areas where its interests clashed with France and Russia - Africa and Central Asia. Britain would likely try to seize control of many French colonies in Africa, while sending troops to Afghanistan to prevent a Russian invasion of India.

Meanwhile, in Europe, an Anglo-German alliance would be formed, since Germany's main enemies were France and Russia, and now would be the perfect time to launch a pre-emptive attack. Based on the same thinking that in reality led to the formation of the Schleiffen Plan, the Germans would likely launch an attack on France. Under British pressure, Belgium would agree to give passage to German troops in exchange for guarantees that it would not lose territory to Germany at the end of the war. Germany would seek to defeat France quickly before Russia had time to bring its troops westwards from Far-East Siberia back to European Russia.

In reality, Russia sent its Baltic Fleet around the world to fight the Japanese, but if they tried to do this in our scenario (unlikely due to German threat), then it would be decimated by the Royal Navy along the way.

Austria-Hungary would likely ally with Germany and Britain, and the Ottoman Empire would too (due to historical hatred between Turkey and Russia). With German troops advancing into France, Paris would likely fall, because there would be no British troops helping the French as there were in real life's WW1. The Germans (with help from Austrians), then move most of their troops eastwards to fight Russia. Russia will basically then be ****ed, because it will have the British advancing into Central Asia, the Japanese fighting it in the Far East, the Germans and Austrians advancing into the western parts of European Russian Empire (i.e. Poland, Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus), and the Ottomans cutting off supplies getting in through the Black Sea - and likely attacking Russia through the Caucasus.

The 1905 revolution that happened in reality would succeed, and either the Bolsheviks or Mensheviks would attempt to seize power, but if they succeeded then the Imperialist forces of UK/Japan/Germany/Austria would probably help White forces crush the Reds, and a puppet Russian rump state which loses most of Eastern Europe to Germany, most of Central Asia to Britain and parts of the Far East to Japan, would be set up. In mainland Europe, there is German hegonomy, while Britain gains all of France's colonies and remains the dominant world naval power.

Do you think Hitler would have rose to power after all of this?

And btw, I was right France had morocco and the UK had Egypt.

[Super Cicero]

(Original post by Miracle Day)

Do you think Hitler would have rose to power after all of this?

Probably not, as Germany would be the dominant power in Europe (so no grievances about territorial loss) and it would still be under the rule of the conservative, militaristic Kaiser (Nazi popularity was partly a backlash against liberal Wiemar Republic). Germany would also have to pay no reparations, and there would've been no hyperinfation. If there was still a Great Depression, then this would probably benefit the German Communists more than anyone, but a communist revolution in Germany would be unlikely.
Also, since in the alternate scenario, the Great War begins in 1904, Hitler at this point was only a teenager, so a war ten years earlier, especially one which Germany won, may have made him into a different person than he was in reality, and he might not have become so extreme, or gone into politics at all.

(Original post by Miracle Day)
And btw, I was right France had morocco and the UK had Egypt.

No, look at your OP. You said France had Egypt and UK had Morocco - which is wrong.

[navarre]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Just a fun hypothetical situation. Following Fashoda etc, France and the UK's relationships strengthened and they put all the colonial arguments behind them agreeing that France had Egypt, and Britain had Morocco.

The UK made an agreement with Japan, so if Japan was in a war with 2 or more powers the UK would help. in the Russo-Japanese war France was Russia's ally, so if Russia had dragged France into the war the UK, according to the terms of Japan and the UK's agreement the UK would have to help Japan.

So UK + Japan vs Russia + France.



With hindsight to all the following events, what would have happened to Europe?

You don't need a diploma in history to know that, in that scenario, France would have been defeated and surrendered (as per usual), and the UK and Japanese forces would still have been victorious.