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Socialism vs Libertarianism The great debate.

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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    K

    Kindly do all of us a favour and stop trying to umpire a debate with your meaningless sperg. Believe it or not, we are capable of interpreting and arguing by ourselves.
    When I first started this debate on page 1 it was rather dry. Believe it or not I said it to keep it moving.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._is_china.html

    Maybe, then again maybe not..
    No, I guarantee you. As defined by the father of socialism; Karl Marx, the common ownership of the tools of production is the primary facet of socialism. Everything else is window dressing.
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    (Original post by blueray)
    When I first started this debate on page 1 it was rather dry. Believe it or not I said it to keep it moving.
    If it is dry it is because nobody is interested. I have no interest in debunking a load of pathetic assertions from a bunch of students who have read no socialist literature whatsoever.
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    (Original post by lukewarm3)
    Can you explain why Cuba has a better education and health system than USA? (and most other capitalist countries)
    But on the flip side the people in Cuba lack some freedoms, and also access to certain material things, that are taken for granted in many other places. I guess it is all about finding the right balance.
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    No, I guarantee you. As defined by the father of socialism; Karl Marx, the common ownership of the tools of production is the primary facet of socialism. Everything else is window dressing.
    I wasn't saying it wasn't! I was merely pointing out to somebody else that there is socialist nature in the economy and the politics of the country, although of course it has stong elements of captalism!
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    I wasn't saying it wasn't! I was merely pointing out to somebody else that there is socialist nature in the economy and the politics of the country, although of course it has stong elements of captalism!
    No it is capitalist with egalitarian facets. Socialism is an entire economic system.
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    (Original post by Tedaus)
    Exactly. Lower classes would be destroyed in a Libertarian society and (I know it's the old cliché) the gap between the richest and poorest would be incredible.

    That's not a fair society for me. Sometimes I wonder if I'm a Marxist because of how strongly I feel about class injustice.
    The rich are the beneficiaries of state-capitalism, not the victims. There's a reason why they are called he ruling class! Without the state to create artificial scarcity and cut off opportunities to the poor, we would live in a much more egalitarian society.

    If you are a lefty who wants to understand libertarianism, I would approach it from the left, rather than the right. Groups like The Center For A Stateless Society and people like Kevin Carson (especially if your a Marxist), Roderick Long, Gary Chartier, Charles Johnson and Brad Spangler who pay more attention to poverty, social justice and class analysis will be far more appealing than those on the libertarian 'right' or mainstream like the Ludwig von Mises Institute or Cato.
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    Hello all, this should be fun. Personally I'm a geolibertarian - believing that land values should be socialised but labour and capital completely privatised. I believe in a negative income tax system - where all are covered to meet a guaranteed adequate standard of living. I believe Libertarianism would do far more to alleviate poverty, promote equality of opportunity, reduce the power of vested interets, promote economic prosperity and be a far more stable economy than we currently live in. We'd be freer, safer, richer and happier - all across society, especially at the lower end.

    This is why I'm a libertarian, and I have no interest in arguing against socialists that wish to have social justice on their ends, but on the means to get there.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Try telling that China!
    Well, I would, but they get a bit touchy, largely because when they tried for full socialism about 50 million people got killed.
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    (Original post by Muscovite)
    My motto: "Question everything..."
    I could swear your motto is "that's for child molestors"
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    (Original post by Rosalind)
    I could swear your motto is "that's for child molestors"
    that too

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