Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to have your say on this topicNew here? Join for free to post

Socialists: Questions...

Announcements Posted on
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    - What does socialism means to you?
    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    - Anything else....
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Are you a comrade?
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I've suspended judgement about where I stand for the moment. I want to think about it more carefully before deciding where to position myself. Certainly I used to be a Marxist when I was younger though.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    Anarchism.

    - What does socialism means to you?
    The abolition of all power relations, such as the state and private property, and replacement of them by free association and federation, direct participatory democracy and freedom of production.

    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    Was a pretty gradual thing, but I'd say reading the Anarchist FAQ was what made me sure I was an anarchist.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    Market Socialism

    - What does socialism means to you?
    Common ownership of the means of production, removal of illegitimate hierarchy and democratic control of politics, investment and the workplace.

    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    - Anything else....
    I remember reading 'The ABC of Communist Anarchism' by Alexander Berkman and agreeing with it's sentiments. This lead me to Marx, Kropotkin and the Anarchist FAQ which reaffirmed my position as a communist anarchist along with my dislike for capitalism.

    However, I moved away from commie anarchism mainly due to discussions with right wing libertarians and the like. I realized that planned economies are very problematic. I also thought their capitalist alternative would be more unjust, unequal, recessionary and environmentally destructive that what we see now.

    After searching around I found David Schweitckar's 'Against Capitalism'. His idea for a market system based on competing democratically ran firms and public investment banks seemed and still does seem an attractive and workable alternative to capitalist or planned economies.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Ecological! Worth having a thing about.

    See:

    http://monthlyreview.org/2008/11/01/...m-to-socialism
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    Libertarian socialism

    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What does socialism means to you?
    A peaceful society based on co-operation, not competition in which workers are in direct control of their production and economy, not the exploitive ruling classes.

    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    Several things but generally realising that capital will go anywhere and kill anyone in it's ceaseless search for profit.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    National Socialism. Lol just joking
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Picardian Socialism, obviously. :lol:
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drapetomanic)
    Market Socialism


    Common ownership of the means of production, removal of illegitimate hierarchy and democratic control of politics, investment and the workplace.


    I remember reading 'The ABC of Communist Anarchism' by Alexander Berkman and agreeing with it's sentiments. This lead me to Marx, Kropotkin and the Anarchist FAQ which reaffirmed my position as a communist anarchist along with my dislike for capitalism.

    However, I moved away from commie anarchism mainly due to discussions with right wing libertarians and the like. I realized that planned economies are very problematic. I also thought their capitalist alternative would be more unjust, unequal, recessionary and environmentally destructive that what we see now.

    After searching around I found David Schweitckar's 'Against Capitalism'. His idea for a market system based on competing democratically ran firms and public investment banks seemed and still does seem an attractive and workable alternative to capitalist or planned economies.
    Yeah, that's kind of what I was like for a while. Though I'd try David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years', and you might swing back to a slightly less market-based view.

    And ancoms don't want planned economies.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Yeah, that's kind of what I was like for a while. Though I'd try David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years', and you might swing back to a slightly less market-based view.

    And ancoms don't want planned economies.
    Thanks, I'll check it out.

    Most serious proposals that I've come across tend to involve a level of participatory planning. How else would you organize an economy if not through market transactions or planning (either by a minority party i.e. USSR or through participation of everyone, like Micheal Albert's Participatory Economics)?
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    Nordic Socialism

    - What does socialism means to you?
    The state mitigation of an imperfect system, by means of providing universal healthcare and education, and making sure that all citizens, whether or not they work, have an acceptable standard of living.

    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    I used to be a libertarian, but then I started listening to Christopher Hitchens, and saw how successful the Nordic states were (and indeed are).

    - Anything else....
    No more, comrade.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drapetomanic)
    Thanks, I'll check it out.

    Most serious proposals that I've come across tend to involve a level of participatory planning. How else would you organize an economy if not through market transactions or planning (either by a minority party i.e. USSR or through participation of everyone, like Micheal Albert's Participatory Economics)?
    Usually some form of gift economy. Personally in anarchism I think there'd be a mix - gift economies are likely on a small scale, but more long-distance transactions would have more quantified forms of credit.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Раскольников)
    - What kind of socialism do you support?
    - What does socialism means to you?
    - What led you to adopt your beliefs, and what makes you hold them still?
    - Anything else....
    1) I'm not sure - see below

    2) A system characterised by the fair distribution of WEALTH (not income) where one man can't subjugate another unless given permission, and each person can choose their own means to achieve their ends.

    3) Personal experiences. I am incredibly hard working. I come from a poor family and have lived off a mixture of low wages and state benefits my whole life. I have little respect for those who have privilege, if not bitterness; not out of envy, but out of the fact they have it so easy. There is no reason that I am at an instant, socially constructed disadvantage. Also, more importantly, the incessant strive for profit has led to terrible things, but good things for a few. There is enough wealth in this world to make sure no one suffers. It is only national boundaries, drawn up arbitrarily usually during some form of occupation (especially African imperialism) that stops this. Usually state boundaries are kept in order to keep economic systems firmly in control.

    4) My biggest concern with socialism is that it dictates a 'right' and a 'wrong'. If we had everyone working for the good of the community, I would not be able to study history and politics. There is no real, burning need to; if I go on into research or academia it benefits so few, initially. I don't really believe in a right or a wrong; the only latter is to stop a person achieving their very best in what they choose.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Usually some form of gift economy. Personally in anarchism I think there'd be a mix - gift economies are likely on a small scale, but more long-distance transactions would have more quantified forms of credit.
    Since I've yet to read a detailed plan for how such an economy might function, I'll remain skeptical. It seems to me, like it would be extremely difficult to a achieve on a large scale, very difficult to regulate/maintain and the transition to such an economy would be much more problematic in comparison to other post capitalist economies.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drapetomanic)
    Since I've yet to read a detailed plan for how such an economy might function, I'll remain skeptical. It seems to me, like it would be extremely difficult to a achieve on a large scale, very difficult to regulate/maintain and the transition to such an economy would be much more problematic in comparison to other post capitalist economies.
    This sort of argument for anything does not sit well with me.

    No one released a detailed plan of how capitalism would work either. A lot, especially feudal lords, didn't think it could work.

    Capitalism itself is extremely difficult to regular and maintain, which is why we're seeing the issues we see now. The transition to capitalism was disastrous on whole swathes of people.
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The abolition of all power relations, such as the state and private property, and replacement of them by free association and federation, direct participatory democracy and freedom of production.
    How do we ensure that someone doesn't recreate power relations through force or however else?

    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Was a pretty gradual thing, but I'd say reading the Anarchist FAQ was what made me sure I was an anarchist.
    I looked it up to read it. Can I just check is this the right thing:
    http://infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ
    ?
    Thanks
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I support Zapatista style Direct Democracy Socialism. Certainly not the type proposed by the social democratic parties of Europe...many who still name themselves 'socialist' parties
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drapetomanic)
    Market Socialism
    Do you support something like the Chinese model? (I imagine there could still be big differences between the Chinese system and your idea of how things should be done, perhaps due to possible effects of the history that led the Chinese into their particular model.)

    (Original post by Drapetomanic)
    After searching around I found David Schweitckar's 'Against Capitalism'. His idea for a market system based on competing democratically ran firms and public investment banks seemed and still does seem an attractive and workable alternative to capitalist or planned economies.
    Sounds interesting. Do you know where I could find this book? I couldn't find it on amazon. Or do you recommend any other books on market socialism?
    • Thread Starter
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ExeterHistStudent)
    Ecological! Worth having a thing about.

    See:

    http://monthlyreview.org/2008/11/01/...m-to-socialism
    Thanks it sounds interesting. I've got the link open on another tab ready to read (as soon as I get a chance).

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: July 9, 2012
New on TSR

The future of apprenticeships

Join the discussion in the apprenticeships hub!

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.