[ymca]

Hey guys, I've started going to the gym and am looking to increase my size and strength. I'd say I have a decent knowledge of how to do the main lifts and I can lift a fair amount so I'm not an absolute beginner. My issue is that I am not sure whether to start a beginners programme such as starting strength or to do a 3 day split doing:
Monday - Back and Biceps, Wednesday - Chest and Triceps, Friday - Legs and Shoulders, with some core work done at the end of each workout.

I would be grateful if anybody could suggest which workout plan I should follow to see good gains in size and strength, if you have any questions feel free to ask Thanks!

[Teabo]

4 years ago I was in a similar position. Many many different routines and whatever you can choose from. What I found to be the best, most thorough way of putting on muscle and increasing your strength is to avoid all this specific training of muscles until they're required, and just start with the big 3; benchpress, squat and deadlift. The last 2 will require you to read up and maybe have somebody watch your form for the first bit, but they're superior to any single lift you can do - deadlifting trains over 200 muscles in the body.

Ontop of that, your diet is the most important thing if you want to add mass. What's it currently like? Get ready to love eating chicken if you're serious about putting on lean muscle.

[Old School]

(Original post by ymca)
Hey guys, I've started going to the gym and am looking to increase my size and strength. I'd say I have a decent knowledge of how to do the main lifts and I can lift a fair amount so I'm not an absolute beginner. My issue is that I am not sure whether to start a beginners programme such as starting strength or to do a 3 day split doing:
Monday - Back and Biceps, Wednesday - Chest and Triceps, Friday - Legs and Shoulders, with some core work done at the end of each workout.

I would be grateful if anybody could suggest which workout plan I should follow to see good gains in size and strength, if you have any questions feel free to ask Thanks!

Post height, weight, squat, bench, deadlift and press numbers.

If you're going to do a split it needs to be at least 4 days per week. Preferably more. Legs and shoulders need to be trained separately.

[ymca]

Thank you for the replies! I have read up on starting strength but I was under the impression that this routine is only good if you're looking to do power lifting in the future? Would a routine consisting of purely squats, bench and deadlifts be okay for somebody like me who wants to put on a bit of size but also get more defined without looking to do any 'serious' power lifting?
My diets pretty good I'd say, I do consume quite a lot of protein through chicken, tuna, whey protein etc.. Guess I'll have to get as much into my diet as I can!

And cheers Old School, Stats:

Height: 5ft 8
Weight: 65kg
Squat: 70kg
Bench: 60kg
Deadlift: 80kg

[Teabo]

(Original post by ymca)
Thank you for the replies! I have read up on starting strength but I was under the impression that this routine is only good if you're looking to do power lifting in the future? Would a routine consisting of purely squats, bench and deadlifts be okay for somebody like me who wants to put on a bit of size but also get more defined without looking to do any 'serious' power lifting?
My diets pretty good I'd say, I do consume quite a lot of protein through chicken, tuna, whey protein etc.. Guess I'll have to get as much into my diet as I can!

And cheers Old School, Stats:

Height: 5ft 8
Weight: 65kg
Squat: 70kg
Bench: 60kg
Deadlift: 80kg

Yeah, I started with the core 3, and stuck with it for 2 years. I went from being 90 kg (6 ft 3) at the start of it, to, according to my journal writings, 104 kg by the time I decided to start adding a few different exercises in. So yeah, you can definitely add some lean mass if your training is hard, and your diet is consistent and that your macronutrients are correct for your goals.

My daily meal:

Breakfast: 06:30
1 pint of water
60 g cereal with 150 ml milk
2 pieces of fruit
Whey (2 scoops)
Glutamine (2 s-scoops)
BCAA (2 s-scoops)

Meal 1: 10:00
1 pint of water
2 chicken breast (90-100 g) sandwiches using wholemeal bread slices or in a curry
35 g leafy salad
2 Avocados

Lunch30
1 pint of water
1 handfuls of almond nuts
2 pieces of fruit
BCAA (2 s-scoops)
Whey (2 scoops)

Meal 230
1 pint of water
1 Chicken breast (65-75 g) sandwich of any kind, using 2 slices of wholemeal bread
1 handful of dried fruit

Preworkout: 17:00 (1 hr prior to WO)
1 piece of fruit
BCAA (2 s-scoops)
Leucine (2 s-scoops)
Creatine (1 heaped s-scoop)
In 400-500 ml skimmed milk


Postworkout(Immediately after WO over)
Whey (2 scoops)
Glutamine (2 s-scoops)
Maltodextrin (½ a scoop)
Leucine (2 s-scoops)
In 400-500 ml skimmed milk
1 handful of nuts
1 small handful of dried fruit

Dinner 20:00-21:00
1 pint of water
Carbohydrate intake is minimal, i.e., only a couple potatoes, very small amounts of pasta/spaghetti and rice.
Fill up on lean protein sources and eat lots of vegetables
After dinner 1 handful of walnuts nuts

Pre-Bed 22:45ish (30 mins prior to bed)
Glutamine (2 small scoops)
BCAA (2 small scoops)

That's made to be in line with a 3500 calorie diet, which is for my requirements based on my basal metabolic rate x my activity level (which is 3-4 training sessions a week).

[desijut]

(Original post by ymca)
I have read up on starting strength but I was under the impression that this routine is only good if you're looking to do power lifting in the future? Would a routine consisting of purely squats, bench and deadlifts be okay for somebody like me who wants to put on a bit of size but also get more defined without looking to do any 'serious' power lifting?

It is very popular on bodybuilding.com but they tend to do an altered version of SS (forget the guys username) (Pendlay Rows in place of Cleans). You can definately put size on and it gives you a bigger capacity for going onto splits. IE now you can squat 70kg (how many reps?) So doing a split you will be doing 70kg or less on them, whereas after SS for 6 months to a year you may squat 120kg, so even on assistance lifts on legs, your strength is nearly doubled

[LookIt'sPete]

I thought you said you could lift quite a bit?

With your lifts as they are, you might as well do starting strength at least until your squat is at about 120kg which shouldn't take too long. Then do a proper bodybuilding split if that's what you're after.



In terms of diet, just keep eating.

Here's a sample

Breakfast - 80g shredded wheat with milk, two-three eggs

Lunch - 300g chicken, 300g potatoes, boiled veg

Dinner - 300g meat, rice/other starch, more veg

After workout - 25-30g from a protein shake

Then have some fruit or something

Nice and clean without having to waste loads of money on useless supplements. If you need more energy, just use more clean fats to cook or eat more carb sources. Nuts are very good for adding calories.

[LookIt'sPete]

(Original post by Teabo)
Yeah, I started with the core 3, and stuck with it for 2 years. I went from being 90 kg (6 ft 3) at the start of it, to, according to my journal writings, 104 kg by the time I decided to start adding a few different exercises in. So yeah, you can definitely add some lean mass if your training is hard, and your diet is consistent and that your macronutrients are correct for your goals.

My daily meal:

Breakfast: 06:30
1 pint of water
60 g cereal with 150 ml milk
2 pieces of fruit
Whey (2 scoops)
Glutamine (2 s-scoops)
BCAA (2 s-scoops)

Meal 1: 10:00
1 pint of water
2 chicken breast (90-100 g) sandwiches using wholemeal bread slices or in a curry
35 g leafy salad
2 Avocados

Lunch30
1 pint of water
1 handfuls of almond nuts
2 pieces of fruit
BCAA (2 s-scoops)
Whey (2 scoops)

Meal 230
1 pint of water
1 Chicken breast (65-75 g) sandwich of any kind, using 2 slices of wholemeal bread
1 handful of dried fruit

Preworkout: 17:00 (1 hr prior to WO)
1 piece of fruit
BCAA (2 s-scoops)
Leucine (2 s-scoops)
Creatine (1 heaped s-scoop)
In 400-500 ml skimmed milk


Postworkout(Immediately after WO over)
Whey (2 scoops)
Glutamine (2 s-scoops)
Maltodextrin (½ a scoop)
Leucine (2 s-scoops)
In 400-500 ml skimmed milk
1 handful of nuts
1 small handful of dried fruit

Dinner 20:00-21:00
1 pint of water
Carbohydrate intake is minimal, i.e., only a couple potatoes, very small amounts of pasta/spaghetti and rice.
Fill up on lean protein sources and eat lots of vegetables
After dinner 1 handful of walnuts nuts

Pre-Bed 22:45ish (30 mins prior to bed)
Glutamine (2 small scoops)
BCAA (2 small scoops)

That's made to be in line with a 3500 calorie diet, which is for my requirements based on my basal metabolic rate x my activity level (which is 3-4 training sessions a week).

Jesus christ! You are wasting so much money on supplements. People like you are the reason these companies can stay in business.

You'd do much better eating proper food. Also, what are the macro splits of the diet plan you just gave?

[Teabo]

(Original post by LookIt'sPete)
Jesus christ! You are wasting so much money on supplements. People like you are the reason these companies can stay in business.

You'd do much better eating proper food. Also, what are the macro splits of the diet plan you just gave?

Being somebody who's going into nutrition, and the fact that I've read up on the science journals regarding creatine and bcaas so whatever, I'll trust my judgment on whether I'm wasting money or not. Wouldn't have broken multiple plateaus and such without supplement help.

Energy /kcal = 3542.68
Protein = 398.55
Carbohydrate = 177.13
Sugars = 127.54
Total Fat = 137.77
(of which saturates) = 43.30
(of which monounsaturates) = 45.27
(of which polyunsaturates) = 43.30
Fibre = 42.51
Salt = 10.63
(of which sodium) = 4.25

That's on a 45 % protein, 20 % carb and 35 % fat diet.

[Old School]

(Original post by ymca)
Thank you for the replies! I have read up on starting strength but I was under the impression that this routine is only good if you're looking to do power lifting in the future? Would a routine consisting of purely squats, bench and deadlifts be okay for somebody like me who wants to put on a bit of size but also get more defined without looking to do any 'serious' power lifting?
My diets pretty good I'd say, I do consume quite a lot of protein through chicken, tuna, whey protein etc.. Guess I'll have to get as much into my diet as I can!

And cheers Old School, Stats:

Height: 5ft 8
Weight: 65kg
Squat: 70kg
Bench: 60kg
Deadlift: 80kg

Run starting strength or stronglifts till your squat reaches 140, your bench hits 95 and your deadlift 180. Eat more and better. Don't neglect your cardio but don't go crazy with it either and you'll get to where you want to be.
fa
EDIT: Holy **** dude! Drop those supps. They are pointless. Oh and eat your carbs. Carbs fuel awesome workouts- at 75kg you don't need to worry about fat gain.

[ymca]

(Original post by desijut)
It is very popular on bodybuilding.com but they tend to do an altered version of SS (forget the guys username) (Pendlay Rows in place of Cleans). You can definately put size on and it gives you a bigger capacity for going onto splits. IE now you can squat 70kg (how many reps?) So doing a split you will be doing 70kg or less on them, whereas after SS for 6 months to a year you may squat 120kg, so even on assistance lifts on legs, your strength is nearly doubled

(Original post by LookIt'sPete)
I thought you said you could lift quite a bit?

With your lifts as they are, you might as well do starting strength at least until your squat is at about 120kg which shouldn't take too long. Then do a proper bodybuilding split if that's what you're after.



In terms of diet, just keep eating.

Here's a sample

Breakfast - 80g shredded wheat with milk, two-three eggs

Lunch - 300g chicken, 300g potatoes, boiled veg

Dinner - 300g meat, rice/other starch, more veg

After workout - 25-30g from a protein shake

Then have some fruit or something

Nice and clean without having to waste loads of money on useless supplements. If you need more energy, just use more clean fats to cook or eat more carb sources. Nuts are very good for adding calories.

(Original post by Old School)
Run starting strength or stronglifts till your squat reaches 140, your bench hits 95 and your deadlift 180. Eat more and better. Don't neglect your cardio but don't go crazy with it either and you'll get to where you want to be.
fa
EDIT: Holy **** dude! Drop those supps. They are pointless. Oh and eat your carbs. Carbs fuel awesome workouts- at 75kg you don't need to worry about fat gain.

Cheers again for your help guys, would you recommend Starting Strength or strong lifts 5x5 if you had to choose one of these routines?

[The Doggfather]

(Original post by ymca)
Hey guys, I've started going to the gym and am looking to increase my size and strength. I'd say I have a decent knowledge of how to do the main lifts and I can lift a fair amount so I'm not an absolute beginner. My issue is that I am not sure whether to start a beginners programme such as starting strength or to do a 3 day split doing:
Monday - Back and Biceps, Wednesday - Chest and Triceps, Friday - Legs and Shoulders, with some core work done at the end of each workout.

I would be grateful if anybody could suggest which workout plan I should follow to see good gains in size and strength, if you have any questions feel free to ask Thanks!

3 day split is ideal. Also make sure each workout is no longer than 40 minutes or muscle growth is impaired. It's because testosterone release is significantly reduced (hormone which promotes muscle growth) and cortisol release is vastly increased (hormone which eats away muscle tissue and increases the storage of body-fat). It's the main reason why 3 day split is preferred.

Click this link of an article, it was very helpful for me when I started working out; http://www.2buildmusclefast.com/p/ti...-of-being.html

This link is the homepage of all the different articles; http://www.2buildmusclefast.com/p/bu...scle-blog.html

[desijut]

(Original post by Old School)
Run starting strength or stronglifts till your squat reaches 140, your bench hits 95 and your deadlift 180.

When you say that, do you mean 1RM?

[Old School]

(Original post by desijut)
When you say that, do you mean 1RM?

Yes. Pretty achievable on SL or SS.

[Old School]

(Original post by ymca)
Cheers again for your help guys, would you recommend Starting Strength or strong lifts 5x5 if you had to choose one of these routines?

Both are good. In fact they're both pretty much the same. It depends on whether you want to do powercleans or rows.

[desijut]

(Original post by Old School)
Yes. Pretty achievable on SL or SS.

I was going to get really demoralised if you meant 3 sets of 5 reps on them lol.

(Original post by Old School)
Both are good. In fact they're both pretty much the same. It depends on whether you want to do powercleans or rows.

I think Mehdi said somewhere, if there's anything you change in 5x5, it's rows to power cleans. I agree, they're so similar it doesnt matter. The only thing is, imo the stronglifts website as whole gives you information quicker and easier. I usually only go on other websites to crossreference what he says