[Gofre]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Im sorry but you are completeley and utterly wrong. Yes religion does keep people in check.

Some people? Yes. A majority so large that we should be thankful for its influence? Hell no.

No its not absurd. Perhaps you've misunderstood me? How can you deny the fact that If the current christains in this world were to turn athiest tomorrow, There would be more, not less, criminals.

Because most people aren't morons who will think they can get away with crime as soon as there isn't a god watching them.

Your infering that 49% of people being convicted are christains! LOL.

I'm not inferring, that is the figure that government research has found. 49.9%, if you want to be exact.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct..._nYWbjNzHQ74qQ

Use your brain, It does not mean that 49% of those convicted were chirstains BUT very likeley they converted to a faith while in prison! PFFFT.

Ironically even if you were right, which you aren't, Christians also have the highest rate of reoffending of any religious group.

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Gofre)
Some people? Yes. A majority so large that we should be thankful for its influence? Hell no.



Because most people aren't morons who will think they can get away with crime as soon as there isn't a god watching them.



I'm not inferring, that is the figure that government research has found. 49.9%, if you want to be exact.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct..._nYWbjNzHQ74qQ



Ironically even if you were right, which you aren't, Christians also have the highest rate of reoffending of any religious group.

I am afraid again, you are wrong. Yes people do believe that there is a God watching them therefore they cannnot get away with crimes. Morons? That is your opinion. But the fact remains.

Wethero r not its a majority, Is irrelevant! The fact remains!

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
I am afraid again, you are wrong. Yes people do believe that there is a God watching them therefore they cannnot get away with crimes. Morons? That is your opinion. But the fact remains.

Wethero r not its a majority, Is irrelevant! The fact remains!

You haven't actually proved anything you're saying.

Just letting you know.

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
Except, he's not (necessarily). Again - reference Norway, more atheists, lower crime rate, less criminals per head than the UK. Is it a co-incidence? possibly but it kind of flies in the face of the religion prevents crime idea doesn't it.

Read. I didnot say that religion prevents crime. I said that without the existence of christainity, there would be more cirminals. Simple.

[Gofre]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
I am afraid again, you are wrong. Yes people do believe that there is a God watching them therefore they cannnot get away with crimes. Morons? That is your opinion. But the fact remains.

I didn't say people who believe god is watching them are morons. I said people who commit crimes when they stop believing that are morons.

Wethero r not its a majority, Is irrelevant! The fact remains!

The fact remains that all studies point towards non-religious people being better at stopping themselves committing crime than Christianity is at stopping its followers. So why should we be grateful, as you asked in your previous post?

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Read. I didnot say that religion prevents crime. I said that without the existence of christainity, there would be more cirminals. Simple.

So - Lack of religion -> Increased crime? The presence of religion keeps crime lower?
Is that what you believe?

If so, just take a minute and think how that could be reworded.

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
So - Lack of religion -> Increased crime? The presence of religion keeps crime lower?
Is that what you believe?

If so, just take a minute and think how that could be reworded.

Saying religion prevents crime is a genaralised statement which suggests that those who are religious do not commit crimes. I hope i've helped you with your thinking?

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Gofre)
I didn't say people who believe god is watching them are morons. I said people who commit crimes when they stop believing that are morons.



The fact remains that all studies point towards non-religious people being better at stopping themselves committing crime than Christianity is at stopping its followers. So why should we be grateful, as you asked in your previous post?

The peice of evidence you produced is flawed. Find the percentage of those convicted as christains to athiests, then come back?
Dude when you call someone a moron, you must sureley realise that its considered to be your 'opinion'? No?

[maturestudy]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello,

I have been studying about various Christians who have impacted the world, motivated by their love of God and their desire to follow Jesus' teachings.

I am wondering, for Atheists, do you acknowledge the positive contributions many people of faith in God have done? If not, why? Even though sad to say, there are "Christians" who have hurt and killed and persecuted people, they have not followed Jesus' teachings. Jesus teaches love, to love God, love one's neighbors, even one's enemies.

Below is a list of some wonderful Christians who have rocked the world, showing God's love to others and helping those in need:

Elizabeth Heyrick
Baroness Cox
David Livingstone
Granville Sharp
Harriet Beecher Stowe
Harriet Tubman
Olaudah Equiano
Samuel Sharpe
William Wilberforce
Florence Nightingale
Clara Barton
Anthony Benezet
George Williams
Henri Dunant
Martin Luther King
Freddie Shuttlesworth
and many more...

These Christians and many more have rocked the world in a positive way, helping in education, abolition of slavery, equal rights, and the medical field. This is in line with Jesus' teachings of loving God and loving other people. What do you think of these people and why? Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

I am wondering, for Atheists, do you acknowledge the positive contributions many people of faith in God have done?

I do more than that - I acknowledge the positive contribution that religious groups sometimes make to society. I have a problem with their need for constant resort to unfounded supernatural claims, not their function as a social club. Of course, that function can be fulfilled without resort to said unfounded supernatural claims.

I don't have time to go through your list in its entirety but I would just note that Elizabeth Heyrick was a member of the Society of Friends - a non-theistic religious organisation commonly known as the Quakers (they also make great oats!). I would also note that she joined this religion prior to her devoting her life to social reform, which puts paid to your notion that these people were "motivated by their love of God and their desire to follow Jesus' teachings."

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Saying religion prevents crime is a genaralised statement which suggests that those who are religious do not commit crimes. I hope i've helped you with your thinking?

Did you or did you not suggest that without religion, there would be more criminals?

[Gofre]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
The peice of evidence you produced is flawed. Find the percentage of those convicted as christains to athiests, then come back?

The results were compiled based on their declared religion upon admission to the criminal justice system. Happy?

Dude when you call someone a moron, you must sureley realise that its considered to be your 'opinion'? No?

Actually no, I would happily say that people who commit crime solely on the basis that they don't think they face divine punishment are, from any objective standpoint, morons.

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Alofleicester)
Did you or did you not suggest that without religion, there would be more criminals?

*sigh*
Ok let me make this as clear as possible for you.
I said without christainity there would be more criminals. You made a statement claiming i said, 'Religion prvents crimes'. And i've just explained to you that the statement i made and the statement you claimed i made, do not have the same meaning.
Im not going to waste my time explanining this again. I hope you now understand. :s ?

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by Gofre)
The results were compiled based on their declared religion upon admission to the criminal justice system. Happy?



Actually no, I would happily say that people who commit crime solely on the basis that they don't think they face divine punishment are, from any objective standpoint, morons.

Im sorry but its still considered as your opinion no matter how you put it. :/
No matter how strong you feel about it. And thats a fact! lol

[WelshBluebird]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
I said without christainity there would be more criminals.

No evidence at all for that.

[Gofre]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Im sorry but its still considered as your opinion no matter how you put it. :/
No matter how strong you feel about it. And thats a fact! lol

If you say so. However I'm keen to know your thoughts now that you know that the results were taken prior to their incarceration. Or were you just planning to ignore that?

[Stiff Little Fingers]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
*sigh*
Ok let me make this as clear as possible for you.
I said without christainity there would be more criminals. You made a statement claiming i said, 'Religion prvents crimes'. And i've just explained to you that the statement i made and the statement you claimed i made, do not have the same meaning.
Im not going to waste my time explanining this again. I hope you now understand. :s ?

So by making that statement you suggested that Christianity and Crime are linked.
By suggesting that without Christianity there would be more criminals, you are also suggesting that with more Christianity (i.e. more religious people) there would be less criminals. Also if they are linked and the few Christians, the greater the number of criminals, then you are suggesting that Christianity lowers the number of criminals, and so the number of crimes committed - hence it can be inferred from your statement that religion helps lower the crime rate or rather prevents crime?

[PeterOkenla11]

(Original post by WelshBluebird)
No evidence at all for that.

Yes, without evidence its an opinion. Something im entitled to?

[Gofre]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Yes, without evidence its an opinion. Something im entitled to?

Not when you're making a factual statement.

[WelshBluebird]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Yes, without evidence its an opinion. Something im entitled to?

Then present it as an opinion.
You simply stated that without religion that there would be more crime.
Of course, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that, and so it should not be presented as a fact.

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Yes, without evidence its an opinion. Something im entitled to?

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
True, but i reckon without christianity there would be much more murderers, rapists in todays world than with it. :/
Atleast wether its because there trying to avoid hell or not. Athiest should atleast be grateful :/

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
Im sorry but you are completeley and utterly wrong. Yes religion does keep people in check. No its not absurd. Perhaps you've misunderstood me? How can you deny the fact that If the current christains in this world were to turn athiest tomorrow, There would be more, not less, criminals. Your infering that 49% of people being convicted are christains! LOL.
Use your brain, It does not mean that 49% of those convicted were chirstains BUT very likeley they converted to a faith while in prison! PFFFT.

(Original post by PeterOkenla11)
I am afraid again, you are wrong. Yes people do believe that there is a God watching them therefore they cannnot get away with crimes. Morons? That is your opinion. But the fact remains.

Wethero r not its a majority, Is irrelevant! The fact remains!

lol.